Dele Alli at Everton

DJS · Oct 26, 2020

He’s been given enough chances by Jose.

No-one can accuse Jose of trying to bomb him out as he pretty much picked the team around him last season and Dele did not deliver at all.

Then when we came back after the COVID-19 break we played much better without him.

You gotta earn your place, it’s not a right and we need winners not lazy players who coast through the game.

sausage · Oct 26, 2020

DJS said:
He’s been given enough chances by Jose.

No-one can accuse Jose of trying to bomb him out as he pretty much picked the team around him last season and Dele did not deliver at all.

Then when we came back after the COVID-19 break we played much better without him.

You gotta earn your place, it’s not a right and we need winners not lazy players who coast through the game.

Quite funny really, as he seemed to be one of the players Jose was excited about having in the squad. It was the same with Rooney at United, where Jose finally gets a player he's coveted and they disappoint him.

I think they key aspect is that we probably could play Dele and he'd look good, but the rest of the players around him may not and could suffer. A difficult aspect for an observer to identify. Jose seems to be a big believer of 'team quality' over individual performances, so 'luxury players' don't really have much sway over him.

DJS · Oct 26, 2020

sausage said:
Quite funny really, as he seemed to be one of the players Jose was excited about having in the squad. It was the same with Rooney at United, where Jose finally gets a player he's coveted and they disappoint him.

I think they key aspect is that we probably could play Dele and he'd look good, but the rest of the players around him may not and could suffer. A difficult aspect for an observer to identify. Jose seems to be a big believer of 'team quality' over individual performances, so 'luxury players' don't really have much sway over him.

Dele also benefit from having Eriksen alongside as their games suited each other.

Eriksen kept things ticking over and Dele would get on end of his creativity.

I’ve also seen Dele as a goal scoring midfield rather than a creative one - it showed during World Cup 2018 as well when we crying out for someone technical and creative in the middle and instead had Dele and Lingard, both of whom could get you goals from midfield but didn’t really add to the creative side.

DogsOfWar · Oct 26, 2020

I don't see where he fits into our squad at the moment.
Time to move him on to fund the starting CB we actually need.

Timberwolf · Oct 26, 2020

DJS said:
He’s been given enough chances by Jose.

No-one can accuse Jose of trying to bomb him out as he pretty much picked the team around him last season and Dele did not deliver at all.

Then when we came back after the COVID-19 break we played much better without him.

You gotta earn your place, it’s not a right and we need winners not lazy players who coast through the game.

This is exactly it.

I got some neg reps for saying we look better without him but...we clearly do. Jose gave him more than enough chances last season and in the 4 league games he's been dropped we've scored 15 goals and our attacking play has looked so much better.

I've seen saying for years that he needed to be dropped and forced to prove himself. I like him as a player and sincerely hope he forces his way back in, but how anyone can honestly think that the Alli of the past 18 months should be a guaranteed starter...I just don't get it. He slows our play down, gives the ball away cheaply and runs down blind alleys. He'll score 6 or 7 lovely goals but that's not worth the countless other good moves and positions he pisses away by shooting weakly or overplaying. He's a talented footballer but unless you play him as a shadow striker, which doesn't suit our system, he simply isn't good enough to play for a team with our aspirations. Not unless he seriously improves his weaknesses anyway.

It's really on him to prove himself to Jose now. Not on us to play him out of some nostalgic gesture towards the player he was or might become.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Oct 26, 2020

SargeantMeatCurtains said:
This seems to be the media’s new thing to report. It’s really not even news at this point. Dele hasn’t been himself for nearly 2 seasons now. Who does he deserve a spot for on the bench let alone the starting XI? Genuinely nobody.

He can either do what Mourinho is MASSIVELY HINTING AT and stop posting stupid shit on social media and focus on his football, or continue to not play in games that matter. It seems right now he’s more interested in his social media image.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with the social media thing. He simply doesn’t offer enough on the field. He’s a luxury player who is a detriment to the team if he’s not scoring. He can’t play in a midfield 3 or a front 3. We have other players who offer more in either position. And even if we were to go back to playing a dedicated number 10, Tanguy, Gio or even Kane offer more.

Archibald-CPH · Oct 26, 2020

Sell. Just sell.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Oct 26, 2020

glacierSpurs said:
Surely this is what Mourinho keep referring to about social media behaviour etc...

I think everyone is reading into his comments. Why would Mourinho be so against social media when he’s one of the only managers who has big social media himself? It makes no sense.

Mourinho has just realised Dele’s skillset is to the detriment of the team right now.

Timberwolf · Oct 26, 2020

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
I think everyone is reading into his comments. Why would Mourinho be so against social media when he’s one of the only managers who has big social media himself? It makes no sense.

Mourinho has just realised Dele’s skillset is to the detriment of the team right now.

It's not that Jose is against social media. The implication is that Dele has put his commercial interests, social media persona and gaming before his football in a way the likes of Kane, Son and others don't. Jose suggested as much in the documentary in his one-on-one meeting with him - questioning his priorities and talking about how quickly his career will pass him by if he doesn't embrace his talent.

I don't want to make any grand claims as I dont know the fine details of how Dele lives his life day by day, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to notice that he cares a lot about his image, branding, clothing lines, etc. Then 'coincidentally' Jose calls him out for being a shit trainer.

If the shoe fits...

IfiHadTheWings · Oct 26, 2020

Timberwolf said:
It's not that Jose is against social media. The implication is that Dele has put his commercial interests, social media persona and gaming before his football in a way the likes of Kane, Son and others don't. Jose suggested as much in the documentary in his one-on-one meeting with him - questioning his priorities and talking about how quickly his career will pass him by if he doesn't embrace his talent.

I don't want to make any grand claims as I dont know the fine details of how Dele lives his life day by day, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to notice that he cares a lot about his image, branding, clothing lines, etc. Then 'coincidentally' Jose calls him out for being a shit trainer.

If the shoe fits...

Promote and sell it on Instagram? :cautious:

JUSTINSIGNAL · Oct 26, 2020

Timberwolf said:
It's not that Jose is against social media. The implication is that Dele has put his commercial interests, social media persona and gaming before his football in a way the likes of Kane, Son and others don't. Jose suggested as much in the documentary in his one-on-one meeting with him - questioning his priorities and talking about how quickly his career will pass him by if he doesn't embrace his talent.

I don't want to make any grand claims as I dont know the fine details of how Dele lives his life day by day, but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to notice that he cares a lot about his image, branding, clothing lines, etc. Then 'coincidentally' Jose calls him out for being a shit trainer.

If the shoe fits...

Thing is Jose also cares about his image and the various commercial deals he has - he’s the most famous manager in the world.

Jose might think Dele has lost focus but more than anything I really think it’s down to him not being productive enough. I remember distinctly Dele losing the ball with his first touch against Everton and Jose not looking impressed. Issue is Dele has been constantly losing possession for the last few seasons but made up for it with goals. But he doesn’t even score anymore. He’s basically a goal poacher who wants to play at number 10 and it leaves us short in midfield which means we have no control. Since he’s been out of the team we have much more control. And I think that’s ultimately why he will never get back in.

DannyNZ · Oct 27, 2020

wirE said:
Alli's problem is that Kane has outshined him as no. 10.

Think it is much more than that. Currently there are half a dozen players ahead of him because they are outshining him.

Phomesy · Oct 27, 2020

Wow... I agree it’s hard to see where Dele fits in this squad but the level of scorn for a kid who was genuinely a superstar for our club for years...
Mindboggling. The memories this guy gave us. The Real Madrid game; the assist for Moura in Amsterdam; the goal vs Palace in his first few games...

the kid set new standards for a new standard club. It’s horrific the way someof you are treating him. Embarrassing.

he goes he stays whatever- he was a genuine star for us. Jesus...

rossdapep · Oct 27, 2020

I think our high press and energy under Poch probably masked some of his weaknesses. He's always been a player who likes to flick the ball rather than get it down and keep a move going, he's always slowed play down and he's always been better in and around the box and not in other areas. But because our team under Poch were relentless and Eriksen would be the creative spark whereas Dembele and Wanyama would give us a solid base it meant Dele could do what he is best at, which is to be a bit of a maverick, float around and wait for the moments to shine.

We are just not set up that way anymore and as he's been asked to get on the ball more, dictate, move it quicker and cut out some of the lazy flicks, we've started to see that he doesn't really have that ability, or he at least is struggling to adapt.

I sincerely hope he can show much more in the EL to give Jose something to think about but I feel he's already done here now.

tiger666 · Oct 27, 2020

Jose on Kane:

"In the last minute [he was also] pressing, a sliding tackle and stopping the guys from putting the ball in the box. When you want to win you do everything for your team, there is no space for individuals, no space for prima donnas,"

Wonder if that was a dig at Dele.

I don't think we should look to sell him at the moment, he's contracted until 2024. The market is depressed and he's been out of form for a while, his value is rock bottom. We could do with getting him a loan to somewhere where he can play up top along with a striker cos I can't see him fitting in here unless it's in midfield. A season or two banging in goals elsewhere will raise his value again, assuming of course he's willing to go out on loan. Hopefully by the time he comes back, Covid will be under control and the market will have bounced back. I think we'd be doing ourselves out of a lot of money selling him now.

fishhhandaricecake · Oct 27, 2020

Timberwolf said:
This is exactly it.

I got some neg reps for saying we look better without him but...we clearly do. Jose gave him more than enough chances last season and in the 4 league games he's been dropped we've scored 15 goals and our attacking play has looked so much better.

I've seen saying for years that he needed to be dropped and forced to prove himself. I like him as a player and sincerely hope he forces his way back in, but how anyone can honestly think that the Alli of the past 18 months should be a guaranteed starter...I just don't get it. He slows our play down, gives the ball away cheaply and runs down blind alleys. He'll score 6 or 7 lovely goals but that's not worth the countless other good moves and positions he pisses away by shooting weakly or overplaying. He's a talented footballer but unless you play him as a shadow striker, which doesn't suit our system, he simply isn't good enough to play for a team with our aspirations. Not unless he seriously improves his weaknesses anyway.

It's really on him to prove himself to Jose now. Not on us to play him out of some nostalgic gesture towards the player he was or might become.

Spot on.

To be fair a lot of us said for a while that he slowed our attacks down and turns out we were right.

Good player but he's quite niche.

kent brockman · Oct 27, 2020

Even if he may not be a great fit for 4-3-3, I still believe that he could be a very effective impact sub if we are chasing a goal.

Mark_147 · Oct 27, 2020

kent brockman said:
Even if he may not be a great fit for 4-3-3, I still believe that he could be a very effective impact sub if we are chasing a goal.

I think you'll find that vinicius will be the player who comes on when we are chasing a goal.

mil1lion · Oct 27, 2020

kent brockman said:
Even if he may not be a great fit for 4-3-3, I still believe that he could be a very effective impact sub if we are chasing a goal.

But we don't play 433

Everlasting Seconds · Oct 27, 2020

Dele’s main issues are twofold presently. His only one trick is to race into the box and arrive at the end of a cross. There’s little value in his all round play. So when he doesn’t really show up for those crosses either, there’s little use for him. In addition, when Kane is playing the role he is now and you are trying to get Gareth Bale match fit, then there’s just no slot left for somebody who isn’t doing his one trick.

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