What's new

Dele Alli at Everton

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
Italy probably.
Or France maybe - what with the PSG rumours that were doing the rounds? I know they got other targets in, but one of bigger French sides might take him, perhaps? Slower paced League overall and all that?
 

Spurs 1961

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
6,665
8,739
True but he needs a run of games all the talk before the season was how ali was looking good in training from dier and mou then he plays the first half vs everton which he was one of the better players and was hooked off at ht and hasnt started a epl gane since just doesnt add up

Mourinho did one of his childish sulks yesterday. Subbing four players was well over the top and also what would have happened if a couple of players got injured? What was needed was some calmness, maybe a re-shuffle of tactics and the manager motivating players at half-time. His changes did nothing to change the game. Instead of giving players much needed game time and giving them the chance to turn the game around ... a game we could afford to lose ... he has done nothing to build confidence. Dele was not bad but was making the wrong final passes probably not helped by being given few minutes in which he is expected to Messi and Ronaldo rolled into one.
 

RikkiRocket

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2015
1,605
3,277
Mourinho did one of his childish sulks yesterday. Subbing four players was well over the top and also what would have happened if a couple of players got injured? What was needed was some calmness, maybe a re-shuffle of tactics and the manager motivating players at half-time. His changes did nothing to change the game. Instead of giving players much needed game time and giving them the chance to turn the game around ... a game we could afford to lose ... he has done nothing to build confidence. Dele was not bad but was making the wrong final passes probably not helped by being given few minutes in which he is expected to Messi and Ronaldo rolled into one.

the saddest thing yesterday was him getting someone to take a picture of him looking moody and pissed off. What were the orders for that pic “Joao, get me looking moody” ?
 

tooey

60% banana
Apr 22, 2005
5,228
7,948
Mourinho did one of his childish sulks yesterday. Subbing four players was well over the top and also what would have happened if a couple of players got injured? What was needed was some calmness, maybe a re-shuffle of tactics and the manager motivating players at half-time. His changes did nothing to change the game. Instead of giving players much needed game time and giving them the chance to turn the game around ... a game we could afford to lose ... he has done nothing to build confidence. Dele was not bad but was making the wrong final passes probably not helped by being given few minutes in which he is expected to Messi and Ronaldo rolled into one.

Nobody is expecting him to be Ronaldo or Messi though are they? They're expecting him to put in a decent shift and at least somewhat resemble a professional footballer. The guys spent.
 

Dirtysanchez6

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2018
1,455
5,638
Just makes sense to sell dele now and reinvest in weaker areas of the squad mainly cm and cb! He doesn’t suit our style now
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
Mourinho did one of his childish sulks yesterday. Subbing four players was well over the top and also what would have happened if a couple of players got injured? What was needed was some calmness, maybe a re-shuffle of tactics and the manager motivating players at half-time. His changes did nothing to change the game. Instead of giving players much needed game time and giving them the chance to turn the game around ... a game we could afford to lose ... he has done nothing to build confidence. Dele was not bad but was making the wrong final passes probably not helped by being given few minutes in which he is expected to Messi and Ronaldo rolled into one.
Sorry to pull you up on this, buddy - but do you have evidence to back up any of the highlighted assertions? Because, forgive me, but it sounds to me like your stating facts with no real support?

The only way one can really state any of the above is if one were in the dressing room at half-time. And then, doubtless, everyone would be on tenterhooks to hear what went down.
 

Spurs 1961

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
6,665
8,739
Sorry to pull you up on this, buddy - but do you have evidence to back up any of the highlighted assertions? Because, forgive me, but it sounds to me like your stating facts with no real support?

The only way you can really state any of the above is if you were in the dressing room at half-time. And then, doubtless, everyone would be on tenterhooks to hear what went down.

pulling off four players, not thinking of possible injuries. The subs were random and made little impact on the game. Telling everyone at the end to stop asking why some players were not playing but actually not giving players the chance to change things ... the game was not a must win one. This was not a cool calculated set of moves or tactical changes. This is the emotional outburst of a man who pokes people in the eye
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
Just makes sense to sell dele now and reinvest in weaker areas of the squad mainly cm and cb! He doesn’t suit our style now
You see, I'm not sure it's definitively the case. I'm not disagreeing with you in terms of not suiting our style - that, I think, is right on the money. But the question that runs through my head is is it a case that he doesn't suit our style because he can't, but may be able to learn to, he can't and never could... or because he won't.

If it's the first, he can't and never could, then yes it makes sense for all for him to be sold;

If it's the second, he can't but could learn to, maybe hold onto him;

If it's the last, he won't, that's an awful situation and there's a case to be argued that he should be as uninvolved with first team activities as possible.

I don't envy Mourinho the problem one iota. It's one of the things I imagine is the most difficult for a manager to handle - a player who everyone knows has potential but simply won't unlock.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,562
Did you watch the same 1st half I did?
Strange isn't it.

For me Dele, Bergwijn and Winks (had Lo Celso been fit enough to continue) should all have been hooked at HT. Assuming Lo Celso was taken off to manage his minutes, the only sub I felt was harsh was Vinicius.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
pulling off four players, not thinking of possible injuries. The subs were random and made little impact on the game. Telling everyone at the end to stop asking why some players were not playing but actually not giving players the chance to change things ... the game was not a must win one. This was not a cool calculated set of moves or tactical changes. This is the emotional outburst of a man who pokes people in the eye
Yeeeeeah, again I'm not sure that backs up your point, to be honest. And it's not really helped by conflating things with an incident that happened nearly a decade ago. First off, are you the same person you were ten years ago? Second, haven't you ever done something that you later understood to be wrong? The eye-poking really doesn't back up your point.

Nor does the fact that four substitutions were made. Again, unless you were there and knew precisely what Mourinho's decision-making was, speaking as to whether it was right or wrong, none of us is in a place to say. A negative outcome doesn't invalidate the decision because Mourinho doesn't have access to a time machine to be able to see the result of his decision before making it.

And when it comes to the possibility of injuries, you speak as if he didn't consider that. First off, can you prove that Mourinho didn't consider injuries? And second, can anyone prove what goes through another person's mind? I'd ask you whether it's outside the realms of possibility, given that he's been involved in football for nigh on four decades and knows about injuries, whether that perhaps he weighed the options and considered the risk of injuries less pressing than trying to win the match with his substitutions?

And why is asking pundits to stop asking him about specific players unreasonable? They've made a huge song and dance about Dele. Why shouldn't he ask them to stop, given that all of the players he took off had a full half to show something and have all had opportunities before as well. The fact that, Dele especially, hasn't shown the requisite form but has been picked repeatedly suggests that far from not giving his underperforming players a chance, he's actually been very patient with them but they haven't shown that they are deserving of a starting place.

Which do you think is more likely?
 
Last edited:

Matthew

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2012
4,597
15,867
Winning. It's his only agenda and I'm backing it. If a few faves have to fall for glory then so be it

this is what annoys me, we get a winner in who doesn't suffer fools/laziness - and he still gets grief. imagine if that performance was under poch, he would of give him a cuddle, and then dele would had started the next five games with the same shit attitude.
 

Phomesy

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
9,188
14,102
this is what annoys me, we get a winner in who doesn't suffer fools/laziness - and he still gets grief. imagine if that performance was under poch, he would of give him a cuddle, and then dele would had started the next five games with the same shit attitude.

Counterpoint: what if, despite all the investment and massively talented squad assembled for him, Mourinho fails to get Top 4?

What if part of the reason for this was that he treated young talented assets so poorly that a) they never return to the output they achieved for multiple seasons prior to his arrival b) it offended other members of the squad on the "if it can happen to him" basis they also drop performance, and c) at the end of it all we lose Mourinho (sacked); Dele (no way he's playing for Spurs after this treatment) and perhaps Kane/Son/Lo Celso because grass simply must be greener...

Now I don't think this will happen. But I find this brinkmanship with young talent hazardous at best. I'd understand if Dele had an entourage like Ndombele who were briefing against the manager - but I can't see any evidence of that so I'm a bit bemused as to why Mourinho is being so cold. he's devaluing the asset more than if he simply didn't select him because he doesn't fit our structure now. A perfectly reasonable set of circumstances.

I don't mind Dele being left out of the team - I do worry about the apparent contempt. I don't understand it.

Maybe stuff is happening behind the scenes? Has there been ITK?
 

floydiohead

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2006
606
1,597
this is what annoys me, we get a winner in who doesn't suffer fools/laziness - and he still gets grief. imagine if that performance was under poch, he would of give him a cuddle, and then dele would had started the next five games with the same shit attitude.
Indeed.
 

agrdavidsfan

Ledley's Knee!
Aug 25, 2005
10,918
13,352
I, like you, have been looking for reasons as to why he's not performing. Thing is it wasn't just performance yesterday. Sloppy passing is one thing, failure to even attempt to win the ball back, or get into a position to defend your mistake is inexcusable. This happened numerous times yesterday, and is certainly not the actions of a player trying to get back into the side.


If he doesn't want to play Jose's game he needs to go in January whilst he's still worth something.

Yeh, I agree with that you are saying but there is something not right there as well if that makes sense?

When Mourinho first game in Alli looked like he would run through walls for him, it also looked like Dele had lost his relationship with Poch, which makes me think maybe Dele is the problem and maybe the environment is. Maybe, he finds gaming and modelling a lot less work for his money than football.

But, with all that said and done there is something else that really has struck me with Dele.

He reminds me a lot of me growing up, I didn't have the best childhood and I had to pretend to be the tough guy, also the guy that is always laughing and joking "putting on a brave face".

To me he looks like a young lad who has had a really tough upbringing throughout it he has played the rough and ready tough guy, on his way to the top he has cut ties with people and tried to focus himself this all comes at an emotional cost.

He then suffered the nasty hamstring injuries, this knocked his confidence and mental confidence more he was also a player that was consistently praised under Poch for training hard?

He, was known for being super fit and being able to run for days.

More recently in the last year or so I really cannot remember seeing Dele smiling joking or giving interviews or playing up for the cameras for the clubs social media etc, there is a battle going on with him and I personally think he has some inner demons that are really effecting him not just mentally but physically as well and the guy is burnt out.

Personally I think he is battling a form of depression or mental illness or addiction (gaming etc), he needs an arm around him and a change of scenery (personally, I would love to see him lose Harry Hickford who has made a life out of being Dele's adopted Step brother who also seems to love the highlife he needs some new advice in his year before its to late.)

The other thing I have noticed big time about him is he's gained a huge amount of muscle mass (those of you that know me you know I have a huge problem with this in sport see my posts re bale going years back). He has probably done this either through training really hard when he was out injured or per instruction to prevent injury but sadly strengthening the core on players to prevent hamstring injuries/back injuries does not always work.

The problem is when you do this it can cause a lot of issues within the body A) lactic acid B) oxygen levels the more muscle you own on your frame the more oxygen your body needs to get them all firing I think this has also cost Dele his athleticism he's carrying a heavier frame about the pitch and tiring a lot quicker (this may change as he gets used to this frame or when he loses it). But this also changes Dele's natural body that he was born with which he has used to play football all his life he may just find his body isn't the same anymore and he is struggling to do what he wants to do as he physically can't do it. (he even said himself in an interview not so long back he can't treat his body like he used to).

To fix that I think we have to let his body go back to its natural gait and let him see where it takes him.

Personally, yesterday I got so upset with him when he didn't put Bale through I was angry at him for the whole of last night and for his performance as a whole but then I took a step back and looked through some footage of Dele of old etc, and being someone who has recently struggled with his own mental health and is now coming back through the other side of it I kind of want him to turn it all around as to me its obvious there is more than just football going on here there is a young guys mental health on the line.

I think Dele of old has enough great moments in the bank to warrant us fans sticking by him and giving him some patience and support to try and find himself through this first major difficult part of his career.

We demand loyalty from our players but we are the first to throw them under the bus when they suddenly stop hitting the highs we are used to, Dele could have downed tools and gone wherever he wanted a few years back when he had the world at his feet but he stayed. Maybe it's just time for us fans just for once to back a player through a tough patch.

Football its a fickle old sport eyh?
 

The Opinionated Lurker

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2019
720
2,554
I find it weird how Dele spent his whole life being a midfielder, Poch figured out how to best utilise him playing him closer upfront and these days, if not the past couple years, he looks so lost when he’s anywhere but the box. I’ve always felt he was sort of a luxury player even at his prime; Eriksen was the chief creator, Kane was the chief scorer, and if worst came to worst and we lost the ball one of Dembele, Dier or Wanyama would mop up. He performed best when he had seemingly no responsibilities on the pitch other than ‘get in the mix’
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
Yeh, I agree with that you are saying but there is something not right there as well if that makes sense?

When Mourinho first game in Alli looked like he would run through walls for him, it also looked like Dele had lost his relationship with Poch, which makes me think maybe Dele is the problem and maybe the environment is. Maybe, he finds gaming and modelling a lot less work for his money than football.

But, with all that said and done there is something else that really has struck me with Dele.

He reminds me a lot of me growing up, I didn't have the best childhood and I had to pretend to be the tough guy, also the guy that is always laughing and joking "putting on a brave face".

To me he looks like a young lad who has had a really tough upbringing throughout it he has played the rough and ready tough guy, on his way to the top he has cut ties with people and tried to focus himself this all comes at an emotional cost.

He then suffered the nasty hamstring injuries, this knocked his confidence and mental confidence more he was also a player that was consistently praised under Poch for training hard?

He, was known for being super fit and being able to run for days.

More recently in the last year or so I really cannot remember seeing Dele smiling joking or giving interviews or playing up for the cameras for the clubs social media etc, there is a battle going on with him and I personally think he has some inner demons that are really effecting him not just mentally but physically as well and the guy is burnt out.

Personally I think he is battling a form of depression or mental illness or addiction (gaming etc), he needs an arm around him and a change of scenery (personally, I would love to see him lose Harry Hickford who has made a life out of being Dele's adopted Step brother who also seems to love the highlife he needs some new advice in his year before its to late.)

The other thing I have noticed big time about him is he's gained a huge amount of muscle mass (those of you that know me you know I have a huge problem with this in sport see my posts re bale going years back). He has probably done this either through training really hard when he was out injured or per instruction to prevent injury but sadly strengthening the core on players to prevent hamstring injuries/back injuries does not always work.

The problem is when you do this it can cause a lot of issues within the body A) lactic acid B) oxygen levels the more muscle you own on your frame the more oxygen your body needs to get them all firing I think this has also cost Dele his athleticism he's carrying a heavier frame about the pitch and tiring a lot quicker (this may change as he gets used to this frame or when he loses it). But this also changes Dele's natural body that he was born with which he has used to play football all his life he may just find his body isn't the same anymore and he is struggling to do what he wants to do as he physically can't do it. (he even said himself in an interview not so long back he can't treat his body like he used to).

To fix that I think we have to let his body go back to its natural gait and let him see where it takes him.

Personally, yesterday I got so upset with him when he didn't put Bale through I was angry at him for the whole of last night and for his performance as a whole but then I took a step back and looked through some footage of Dele of old etc, and being someone who has recently struggled with his own mental health and is now coming back through the other side of it I kind of want him to turn it all around as to me its obvious there is more than just football going on here there is a young guys mental health on the line.

I think Dele of old has enough great moments in the bank to warrant us fans sticking by him and giving him some patience and support to try and find himself through this first major difficult part of his career.

We demand loyalty from our players but we are the first to throw them under the bus when they suddenly stop hitting the highs we are used to, Dele could have downed tools and gone wherever he wanted a few years back when he had the world at his feet but he stayed. Maybe it's just time for us fans just for once to back a player through a tough patch.

Football its a fickle old sport eyh?
It almost smacks of 'him against the world', doesn't it?
 

gibbospurs

SC Supporter
Aug 28, 2010
4,978
6,576
Yeh, I agree with that you are saying but there is something not right there as well if that makes sense?

When Mourinho first game in Alli looked like he would run through walls for him, it also looked like Dele had lost his relationship with Poch, which makes me think maybe Dele is the problem and maybe the environment is. Maybe, he finds gaming and modelling a lot less work for his money than football.

But, with all that said and done there is something else that really has struck me with Dele.

He reminds me a lot of me growing up, I didn't have the best childhood and I had to pretend to be the tough guy, also the guy that is always laughing and joking "putting on a brave face".

To me he looks like a young lad who has had a really tough upbringing throughout it he has played the rough and ready tough guy, on his way to the top he has cut ties with people and tried to focus himself this all comes at an emotional cost.

He then suffered the nasty hamstring injuries, this knocked his confidence and mental confidence more he was also a player that was consistently praised under Poch for training hard?

He, was known for being super fit and being able to run for days.

More recently in the last year or so I really cannot remember seeing Dele smiling joking or giving interviews or playing up for the cameras for the clubs social media etc, there is a battle going on with him and I personally think he has some inner demons that are really effecting him not just mentally but physically as well and the guy is burnt out.

Personally I think he is battling a form of depression or mental illness or addiction (gaming etc), he needs an arm around him and a change of scenery (personally, I would love to see him lose Harry Hickford who has made a life out of being Dele's adopted Step brother who also seems to love the highlife he needs some new advice in his year before its to late.)

The other thing I have noticed big time about him is he's gained a huge amount of muscle mass (those of you that know me you know I have a huge problem with this in sport see my posts re bale going years back). He has probably done this either through training really hard when he was out injured or per instruction to prevent injury but sadly strengthening the core on players to prevent hamstring injuries/back injuries does not always work.

The problem is when you do this it can cause a lot of issues within the body A) lactic acid B) oxygen levels the more muscle you own on your frame the more oxygen your body needs to get them all firing I think this has also cost Dele his athleticism he's carrying a heavier frame about the pitch and tiring a lot quicker (this may change as he gets used to this frame or when he loses it). But this also changes Dele's natural body that he was born with which he has used to play football all his life he may just find his body isn't the same anymore and he is struggling to do what he wants to do as he physically can't do it. (he even said himself in an interview not so long back he can't treat his body like he used to).

To fix that I think we have to let his body go back to its natural gait and let him see where it takes him.

Personally, yesterday I got so upset with him when he didn't put Bale through I was angry at him for the whole of last night and for his performance as a whole but then I took a step back and looked through some footage of Dele of old etc, and being someone who has recently struggled with his own mental health and is now coming back through the other side of it I kind of want him to turn it all around as to me its obvious there is more than just football going on here there is a young guys mental health on the line.

I think Dele of old has enough great moments in the bank to warrant us fans sticking by him and giving him some patience and support to try and find himself through this first major difficult part of his career.

We demand loyalty from our players but we are the first to throw them under the bus when they suddenly stop hitting the highs we are used to, Dele could have downed tools and gone wherever he wanted a few years back when he had the world at his feet but he stayed. Maybe it's just time for us fans just for once to back a player through a tough patch.

Football its a fickle old sport eyh?
why would Dele want to drop Harry Hickford from his life? He’s his best mate and basically his family.
 

agrdavidsfan

Ledley's Knee!
Aug 25, 2005
10,918
13,352
It almost smacks of 'him against the world', doesn't it?

It does, he just seems angry upset or sad at the whole world and to be honest I am actually starting to feel sorry for him.

The world at your feet one day the next nobody wants you nobody idolises you.

He was a player that played with a fire and the fire has gone out the adrenaline shot has worn off.

That is some come down let me tell you......
 

agrdavidsfan

Ledley's Knee!
Aug 25, 2005
10,918
13,352
why would Dele want to drop Harry Hickford from his life? He’s his best mate and basically his family.

Best friends and family, aren't always what's best for you. (imagine your best friend/brother playing for spurs he's also funding your lifestyle but he's been rubbish for a while and the manager doesn't rate him thinks he's not working hard enough....would you risk telling him when he comes home the manager is right? No, you wouldn't you'd inflate his ego and tell him how great he is).
 
Top