Match Threads Ratings vs Antwerp

whitesocks · Oct 30, 2020

Thenewcat said:
Reggie - 3 dreadful
...

Some harsh ratings there but this one stands out as being worrying
Reg has been praised to the rafters since he joined, his confidence and attacking flair the highlights.
But he offered nothing going forward in this game, when we desperately needed some width, and also he was defensively sloppy.

Maybe he is carrying a knock. Maybe he is exhausted by the number of games he has had to play.

What is concerning is with Davies rotating with Dier for the LCB spot, and Rose effectively sacked, there is no-one (senior) knocking on mourinho's door to offer an alternative.
If the guy needs a rest then we should consider playing Cirkin.

In fact the whole purpose of the europa group stage is to play some youngsters - Cirkin really should have played anyway, instead of grinding Reg into the ground.

Timberwolf · Oct 30, 2020

Ionman34 said:
I'm confused here. We didn't show up but they defended like Trojans?
It's one or the other surely, not both?

Why not both? They aren't mutually exclusive. We played badly but we still had 15 shots and 57% possession - if Antwerp weren't defensively organised and committed we would've probably scored a goal or two, as we've done in plenty of other games where we've played poorly and still won.

We're a much better team than Antwerp so even when we're playing shit we can still do damage if they don't defend well. We put 7 past Macabi Haifa while in second gear because they were tactically naive and defended poorly. Meanwhile Antwerp were diving in to block shots, defensively very well organised and poured cold water on any attacks we were able to muster. If they'd left holes or not given 100% defensively, our lacklustre performance may still have been enough to get a result.

Ionman34 · Oct 30, 2020

Timberwolf said:
Why not both? They aren't mutually exclusive. We played badly but we still had 15 shots and 57% possession - if Antwerp weren't defensively organised and committed we would've probably scored a goal or two, as we've done in plenty of other games where we've played poorly and still won.

We're a much better team than Antwerp so even when we're playing shit we can still do damage if they don't defend well. We put 7 past Macabi Haifa while in second gear because they were tactically naive and defended poorly. Meanwhile Antwerp were diving in to block shots, defensively very well organised and poured cold water on any attacks we were able to muster. If they'd left holes or not given 100% defensively, our lacklustre performance may still have been enough to get a result.

So, in other words, we showed up, just not at our best?
I suppose it just depends on your definition of showing up.

dbspurs · Oct 30, 2020

AnotherSpursFan said:
Jose, when you play Winks for 90 minutes, you are setting up for your FRINGE players to fail.

The defense was not protected and the offense has no support. By persisting with Winks and subbing GLC, you are also giving the wrong message to the team; that its ok to play safe useless passes, that its ok to be a coward.

This one is on you Jose.

Jose's chocolate teapot midfield was never going to be able to handle that aggressive and energetic Antwerp midfield.

That is where the game was lost.

Timberwolf · Oct 30, 2020

Ionman34 said:
So, in other words, we showed up, just not at our best?
I suppose it just depends on your definition of showing up.

Well a bit part of why we didn't show up was due to their defensive shape and low block. Under Mourinho we're at our best when we can play on the break and there's space to play into. On an individual level we were poor yesterday and lacked commitment but if Antwerp had played an open game I bet a lot of of our pacey runners like Son, Bale, Bergwijn, Reguilon etc would've looked a lot more impressive and created some genuine chances.

Due to our style of play we almost always look much worse when teams shut down the space and don't let us play our favoured game. The two go hand in hand. However, some teams do it better than others. Newcastle defended with a low block but did it really fucking badly and we should've scored about 5 that game but for poor finishing and Darlow channeling peak Gordon Banks. Antwerp did it really well and looked solid throughout.

TOLBINY · Oct 30, 2020

Perhaps now fans will realise that our squad is not that great after all, 5 or 6 of our starting 11 pick themselves (Kane, Son, PEH. Hugo, Ndombele / Gio and maybe Reggie) but the rest of the places would not be filled by top class players (Toby due to age). The problem with getting rid of Dele and Winks is fulfilling home grown quota.

BringBack_leGin · Oct 30, 2020

TOLBINY said:
Perhaps now fans will realise that our squad is not that great after all, 5 or 6 of our starting 11 pick themselves (Kane, Son, PEH. Hugo, Ndombele / Gio and maybe Reggie) but the rest of the places would not be filled by top class players (Toby due to age). The problem with getting rid of Dele and Winks is fulfilling home grown quota.

First loss in 6.5 weeks/ first time we’ve not been the better team in that time... yup that seems a reasonable reaction.

Thenewcat · Oct 30, 2020

whitesocks said:
Some harsh ratings there but this one stands out as being worrying
Reg has been praised to the rafters since he joined, his confidence and attacking flair the highlights.
But he offered nothing going forward in this game, when we desperately needed some width, and also he was defensively sloppy.

Maybe he is carrying a knock. Maybe he is exhausted by the number of games he has had to play.

What is concerning is with Davies rotating with Dier for the LCB spot, and Rose effectively sacked, there is no-one (senior) knocking on mourinho's door to offer an alternative.
If the guy needs a rest then we should consider playing Cirkin.

In fact the whole purpose of the europa group stage is to play some youngsters - Cirkin really should have played anyway, instead of grinding Reg into the ground.

Sorry but Reggie has played 4 games for spurs. He shouldn’t be that tired. Hopefully last night was just a major off night like it was for many

Freddie · Oct 30, 2020

The manager needs to take a chunk of the blame as well as the players. A central midfield of Winks and GLC (and Alli somewhere in the vicinity) is presuming we'd dominate possession and we wouldn't need to hunt the ball down. Grossly underestimated the opposition. Not only were they resolute but they were a massive threat on the counter. They probably had the best 5 chances of the match. And the raft of changes at half time were more symbolic than an effort to change the game. Lamela and Lucas coming on to help create rarely inspire much confidence for me. Lamela has a few decent qualities which people always overstate to defend him but his many deficiencies are incredibly frustrating. He doesn't score, assist, his movement doesn't help anyone, he holds on to the ball infuriatingly long. He kills so many more potential chances than he creates/prevents for the opposition. Similarly, we need to get rid of Davies. Equally bad at left back and centre back but I've ranted about him before and it's Friday so I'll go do something fun instead.

Spurs 1961 · Oct 30, 2020

bigfrooj said:
I think Mourinho went too large on Bale getting fitter all the time rhetoric. He’s clearly miles away yet and at least Vinicius and Dele could get about with more energy and more frequent sprints. Nearest Jose will get to an apology post match I suppose but Bale should have come off at halftime.

a good assessment. I really don’t like Mourinho and his narrative against Dele and others. He has been manager for a year and needs to accept the blame. But it’s all about him and the players can just be sacrificed on the altar of his ego. Changing four players at halftime was a childish strop

Thenewcat · Oct 30, 2020

Spurs 1961 said:
a good assessment. I really don’t like Mourinho and his narrative against Dele and others. He has been manager for a year and needs to accept the blame. But it’s all about him and the players can just be sacrificed on the altar of his ego. Changing four players at halftime was a childish strop

I didn’t agree with 4 subs at half time but I think the purpose of that was internal. As for the ‘narrative against Dele’ I’ve seen zero evidence of such a thing whatsoever. Dele has been shit recently so isn’t getting picked, and could have no complaints about being hooked at half time when it’s happened either. Mourinho deserves some of the blame for last night and I’m sure he is well aware of that, but Dele’s wider issues are not Jose’s making

BringBack_leGin · Oct 30, 2020

Spurs 1961 said:
Changing four players at halftime was a childish strop

Is ridiculous that after seeing Mourinho first hand for us for a year now, you genuinely think any in game decision he makes is about anything other than to win the match.

I thought four subs was overboard and I’m not even sure he chose the right sacrifices, but childish strop it was not- unlike your reaction to it.

Marty · Oct 30, 2020

BringBack_leGin said:
Is ridiculous that after seeing Mourinho first hand for us for a year now, you genuinely think any in game decision he makes is about anything other than to win the match.

I thought for subs was overboard and I’m not even sure he chose the right sacrifices, but childish strop it was not- unlike your reaction to it.

The only sub I disagreed with was Vinicius. Dele and Bergwijn had to come off and my hunch is GLC is being managed carefully so he doesn't tweak something again.

Vinicius did nothing wrong but wasn't given the chance to do anything right because service to him and play around him was non existent.

BringBack_leGin · Oct 30, 2020

Marty said:
The only sub I disagreed with was Vinicius. Dele and Bergwijn had to come off and my hunch is GLC is being managed carefully so he doesn't tweak something again.

Vinicius did nothing wrong but wasn't given the chance to do anything right because service to him and play around him was non existent.

I pretty much agree with this though I might suggest that removing either Dele or Bergwijn might’ve improved our play sufficiently that the other has a better second half.

Might.

Marty · Oct 30, 2020

BringBack_leGin said:
I pretty much agree with this though I might suggest that removing either Dele or Bergwijn might’ve improved our play sufficiently that the other has a better second half.

Might.

Might indeed but yes clearly playing both when they're both so completely bereft of mojo was a very bad idea.

Ionman34 · Oct 30, 2020

Timberwolf said:
Well a bit part of why we didn't show up was due to their defensive shape and low block. Under Mourinho we're at our best when we can play on the break and there's space to play into. On an individual level we were poor yesterday and lacked commitment but if Antwerp had played an open game I bet a lot of of our pacey runners like Son, Bale, Bergwijn, Reguilon etc would've looked a lot more impressive and created some genuine chances.

Due to our style of play we almost always look much worse when teams shut down the space and don't let us play our favoured game. The two go hand in hand. However, some teams do it better than others. Newcastle defended with a low block but did it really fucking badly and we should've scored about 5 that game but for poor finishing and Darlow channeling peak Gordon Banks. Antwerp did it really well and looked solid throughout.

Yeah, that’s pretty much my take on it if I’m honest.

It was a poor performance overall, but it was the 1st half showing that set the tone. It shows what effect confidence can have on your performance. Our lethargic and, frankly, amateurish start gave them the confidence to believe they could handle anything we threw at them, so much so that even when we put our more intense and accomplished players in, their mindset was pretty much “bring it on, we can deal with anything you’ve got.” Had we asked a few more questions, put them more into a panic mode at the back, I doubt their confidence would have been that high. Had they been struggling to contain our 2nd string, their mindset would likely have been the polar opposite when Kane and Son came on.

As I said in the match thread though, it’s a game of inches. An inch or so either way and Lamela scores, one less touch before shooting and Son likely scores. At this level, that can make the difference.

Ionman34 · Oct 30, 2020

Spurs 1961 said:
a good assessment. I really don’t like Mourinho and his narrative against Dele and others. He has been manager for a year and needs to accept the blame. But it’s all about him and the players can just be sacrificed on the altar of his ego. Changing four players at halftime was a childish strop

He literally stated that the selection was on him, taking the blame.

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