Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou
- Thread starter Archibald&Crooks
- Start date
Wish I could like this twice. People have been talking on social media as if the low block (also since when was it called that, it’s just a fancy way of saying playing defensively) is some sort of unbreakable system.
The problem for us is that we throw full backs into very aggressive positions so on the break we only have our centre backs in position to defend. As a result, we cough up 3-4 glorious chances a game. That will be the case no matter who the CBs are. Ange needs to sort the defence big time, which means adjusting his system, because we’re easy to play against.
Yes Udogie and Porro are big misses but even when they were playing, we were coughing up lots of chances. Blaming Royal and Davies for today, as mediocre as they were, is papering over the cracks.
If anyone is driving at “Ange Out”, they’re an idiot. He finishes top 6 this season, he’s done well in my book, top 8 is even acceptable, anything more is mind boggling.
But criticism is valid. We’ve been very lucky since Newcastle and that caught up with us today. The pro-Ange lobby also always have an excuse - we don’t have our first choice CBs, we don’t have our first choice midfield, we don’t have our full backs etc. All of them have some merit individually but when you look at repeated patterns in games no matter who is playing, you have to question or challenge the manager a bit.
We overachieved early on and we’ve regressed to the mean. We’re repeatedly very, very open and cough up 3-4 glorious chances a game. Ange has more than enough credit in the bank to attempt to fix that but if he doesn’t tweak I'm a hipster ball to correct it, he won’t be a success here IMO and it starts to look a bit “Emperor’s New Clothes”.
Too many of our squad are not fully fit after fairly serious injuries. Several of the squad are jaded after returning from important mid season competitions. Some of our squad are just not good enough. Werner can't score to save his life. Richarlson can't control a ball or pass properly to his teammates, and at best Johnson is a work in progress.
Jaffer99
Well-Known Member
- Feb 9, 2012
- 371
- 648
If Ange likes his fullbacks higher up the field and leaving us exposed to counter attacks, why doesn’t he play with a back 3, that way, he can have fullbacks/wingbacks higher up the field, but at least we would have more cover in defence with 3 CB’s..
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
- 26,966
- 45,255
Not quite the same players.True but Ange can’t create chances lol He can get them to train patterns of play etc but it’s down to the players!
the same players were creating chances before and taking them. The form has dropped off slightly I agree but Ange doesn’t play he manages.
The tournament football has probably left a few players jaded and Maddison doesn’t look as sharp. I’m sure it’ll come back
Only slight criticism I could have is the high line, it could be dropped slightly but I get the high line helps where pressing!
ohtottenham!
Well-Known Member
- Aug 15, 2013
- 7,504
- 13,047
Yes, having both first-choice FBs out really hurt us, along with our midfield still struggling to get up to speed after all the injuries and absences. I feel pretty confident that things will improve after the break.
jolsnogross
Well-Known Member
- May 17, 2005
- 3,783
- 5,540
The main issue we have is the pedestrian tempo. Most are fine with the style of play as long as we jeopardize the opponents goal enough. We accept some jeopardy at the back then. The problem is that we're not taking opponents on with gusto, which means the best chances are in the "against" column.
Ange gets to sub off half the outfield players every game. Light a fire under them for the next one and tell them in advance that 3 subs will happen at half time if they keep the walking sideways shit going. Tell Werner and Johnson to get to the fucking byline before they even think of sideways or backwards passing.
Ange gets to sub off half the outfield players every game. Light a fire under them for the next one and tell them in advance that 3 subs will happen at half time if they keep the walking sideways shit going. Tell Werner and Johnson to get to the fucking byline before they even think of sideways or backwards passing.
Gb160
Well done boys. Good process
- Jun 20, 2012
- 23,679
- 93,465
The bastard low block, its feels like it's been our nemesis for about a decade.
I think no matter how good your coach is, to dismantle a good low block routinely takes really elite players...and not just one or 2 of them like we've had over the years, the team needs to be littered with them.
Romulus
Well-Known Member
- Jun 14, 2012
- 6,989
- 11,206
Ange needs to put these players on trial, whoever doesn't make the grade can be sold off... whoever it may be.
forget the results, im so disappointed that at this stage we now have players jogging, looking tired, no cohesion, unable to pass 10 yards, track runners, take people on. They obviously dont understand or are unwilling to do whats asked of them
forget the results, im so disappointed that at this stage we now have players jogging, looking tired, no cohesion, unable to pass 10 yards, track runners, take people on. They obviously dont understand or are unwilling to do whats asked of them
sidford
Well-Known Member
- Oct 20, 2003
- 11,391
- 29,937
Truth is, Tottenham have not played well for some time - how can they fix form?
Wolves defeat lays bare the truth for Tottenham: they have not played well for a while. But why? And how can they turn it around?
theathletic.com
The only good thing about Tottenham’s loss to Wolves is that it will force everyone to confront something that had been left unsaid for too long: this team is not playing well and has not been for some time.
Spurs have managed fairly successfully to cover up this inconvenient truth over the past few weeks. When Brentford and Brighton came to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium recently, the home side plodded through the first half and went into the break 1-0 down. Both times they relied on a second-half comeback to win the game and in the thrill of victory the poor start was largely forgotten. The fans went home happy and Tottenham continued to climb the table.
The first hour against Wolves felt like a carbon copy of those two games. The same miserable first half, Tottenham failing to find their way around a clever well-organised opposition, trying to play in spaces that simply did not exist. The same concession of an opening goal which was only a fair reflection of the first period. The same quick improvement straight after the break and a speedy equaliser. When Dejan Kulusevski made it 1-1 in the first minute of the second half it did feel as if yet another comeback was on.
But after an hour this game sharply diverged from Spurs’ last two here. Instead of scoring the goal to put them 2-1 up, Tottenham conceded after losing the ball from their own corner-kick. Spurs never recovered their composure, Wolves were worthy of the win.
This was a fair result, not only in the sense that Wolves were the better team over the 90 minutes but also because Spurs could not rely forever on second-half turnarounds. Those last three home first halves were not entirely the same: this game was more about Wolves’ compact organisation, Brighton was about their man-to-man marking, Brentford about their ability to drag Spurs into the disjointed stop-start game they did not want to play. But in all three cases, it was the visitors who dictated the terms.
Manager Ange Postecoglou did not have an explanation for this trend afterwards but admitted it makes it difficult for Spurs to impose their own expansive game. “For us to kind of dominate games like we want to, it does mean we need to start aggressively, and try and put the opposition on the back foot,” he said. “And we haven’t really done that (in the) last two or three games. Sometimes it’s the mindset going into games, sometimes it’s the opposition, sometimes it’s just the context of the football game.”
If you look at the bigger picture, rather than just this game or even the last three home games, it becomes more worrying for Spurs. There is a trend that has lasted for longer than the past few weeks.
For months, Spurs have looked like a team not performing as well as they could. A team unable to dominate opponents over the whole game, conceding too many chances, often relying on individual quality at both ends of the pitch to get them over the line.
When the last truly convincing 90-minute performance from Spurs? When was the last time they played as well as they routinely did in those thrilling first weeks of the season? Not the Burnley win in the FA Cup, a dismal game rescued by one brilliant goal from Porro. Not the Bournemouth victory, when they were outplayed for long spells but snatched it at the end. Not edging past Everton, when they were desperately hanging on for much of the second half. Probably not even beating Nottingham Forest at the City Ground, a professional display in a poor-quality game.
You would have to go back more than three months to the 4-1 win over an injury-hit Newcastle United, on 10 December, to find an occasion when Spurs played to their full capabilities, dominated and controlled the whole game.
Now there is plenty of mitigation for why Spurs are not playing as well as they did at the start of the season. Half of the first team have missed long spells with injuries or international duty over the past four months. The squad is not deep enough to survive those absences. But that explanation cannot last forever. Cristian Romero and Micky van de Ven have been back for a month now. This was James Maddison’s fourth start in a row. Son Heung-min, Yves Bissouma and Pape Matar Sarr are all back from their tournaments and all started against Wolves. Yes, they were missing Pedro Porro and Destiny Udogie, but Postecoglou did not want to take it as an excuse.
Maybe Tottenham are victims of the high standards and expectations they set in those first weeks of the season when they won eight and drew two of their first 10 league games. That was an unsustainably good start, an unrealistic level for a team trying to learn a new style of play with half of a new team.
Maybe it was inevitable there would be a correction. Tottenham were not going to maintain those results all season. It is to their credit that results stayed consistent over recent months, even when it was clear the team were not playing anywhere near their best football; two points behind fourth is a good position and probably ahead of schedule for this team. For a while, some could even argue that winning while not playing well was a sign of a good team.
But the true mark of a good team is playing well more often than not, dictating the terms of the contest, taking control from the first minute and never allowing your opponent a foothold in the game. That is the football that Spurs aspire to, the football that they have slowly slipped away from over the past few months. Maybe this overdue defeat will remind the players where they need to get back to.
Mr Pink
SC Supporter
- Aug 25, 2010
- 55,154
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Well we've two weeks.
At the very least, I want to see us start games with a much better intensity/tempo.
First thing we should see against Palace.
Agne has acknowledged this in his post match comments, so hopefully we see it in practice in two weeks.
Confident we will, and we're going to hammer someone when it clicks again.
At the very least, I want to see us start games with a much better intensity/tempo.
First thing we should see against Palace.
Agne has acknowledged this in his post match comments, so hopefully we see it in practice in two weeks.
Confident we will, and we're going to hammer someone when it clicks again.
We definitely need to find a way to play with more zip. We are too ponderous on the ball right now, with players taking two or three touches instead of releasing the early ball. It’s leading to lots of individual mistakes and missed opportunities. How many times have we seen a player caught in possession recently?
bubble07
Well-Known Member
- Dec 27, 2004
- 23,166
- 30,335
Truth is, Tottenham have not played well for some time - how can they fix form?
Wolves defeat lays bare the truth for Tottenham: they have not played well for a while. But why? And how can they turn it around?
The only good thing about Tottenham’s loss to Wolves is that it will force everyone to confront something that had been left unsaid for too long: this team is not playing well and has not been for some time.
Spurs have managed fairly successfully to cover up this inconvenient truth over the past few weeks. When Brentford and Brighton came to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium recently, the home side plodded through the first half and went into the break 1-0 down. Both times they relied on a second-half comeback to win the game and in the thrill of victory the poor start was largely forgotten. The fans went home happy and Tottenham continued to climb the table.
The first hour against Wolves felt like a carbon copy of those two games. The same miserable first half, Tottenham failing to find their way around a clever well-organised opposition, trying to play in spaces that simply did not exist. The same concession of an opening goal which was only a fair reflection of the first period. The same quick improvement straight after the break and a speedy equaliser. When Dejan Kulusevski made it 1-1 in the first minute of the second half it did feel as if yet another comeback was on.
But after an hour this game sharply diverged from Spurs’ last two here. Instead of scoring the goal to put them 2-1 up, Tottenham conceded after losing the ball from their own corner-kick. Spurs never recovered their composure, Wolves were worthy of the win.
This was a fair result, not only in the sense that Wolves were the better team over the 90 minutes but also because Spurs could not rely forever on second-half turnarounds. Those last three home first halves were not entirely the same: this game was more about Wolves’ compact organisation, Brighton was about their man-to-man marking, Brentford about their ability to drag Spurs into the disjointed stop-start game they did not want to play. But in all three cases, it was the visitors who dictated the terms.
Manager Ange Postecoglou did not have an explanation for this trend afterwards but admitted it makes it difficult for Spurs to impose their own expansive game. “For us to kind of dominate games like we want to, it does mean we need to start aggressively, and try and put the opposition on the back foot,” he said. “And we haven’t really done that (in the) last two or three games. Sometimes it’s the mindset going into games, sometimes it’s the opposition, sometimes it’s just the context of the football game.”
If you look at the bigger picture, rather than just this game or even the last three home games, it becomes more worrying for Spurs. There is a trend that has lasted for longer than the past few weeks.
For months, Spurs have looked like a team not performing as well as they could. A team unable to dominate opponents over the whole game, conceding too many chances, often relying on individual quality at both ends of the pitch to get them over the line.
When the last truly convincing 90-minute performance from Spurs? When was the last time they played as well as they routinely did in those thrilling first weeks of the season? Not the Burnley win in the FA Cup, a dismal game rescued by one brilliant goal from Porro. Not the Bournemouth victory, when they were outplayed for long spells but snatched it at the end. Not edging past Everton, when they were desperately hanging on for much of the second half. Probably not even beating Nottingham Forest at the City Ground, a professional display in a poor-quality game.
You would have to go back more than three months to the 4-1 win over an injury-hit Newcastle United, on 10 December, to find an occasion when Spurs played to their full capabilities, dominated and controlled the whole game.
Now there is plenty of mitigation for why Spurs are not playing as well as they did at the start of the season. Half of the first team have missed long spells with injuries or international duty over the past four months. The squad is not deep enough to survive those absences. But that explanation cannot last forever. Cristian Romero and Micky van de Ven have been back for a month now. This was James Maddison’s fourth start in a row. Son Heung-min, Yves Bissouma and Pape Matar Sarr are all back from their tournaments and all started against Wolves. Yes, they were missing Pedro Porro and Destiny Udogie, but Postecoglou did not want to take it as an excuse.
Maybe Tottenham are victims of the high standards and expectations they set in those first weeks of the season when they won eight and drew two of their first 10 league games. That was an unsustainably good start, an unrealistic level for a team trying to learn a new style of play with half of a new team.
Maybe it was inevitable there would be a correction. Tottenham were not going to maintain those results all season. It is to their credit that results stayed consistent over recent months, even when it was clear the team were not playing anywhere near their best football; two points behind fourth is a good position and probably ahead of schedule for this team. For a while, some could even argue that winning while not playing well was a sign of a good team.
But the true mark of a good team is playing well more often than not, dictating the terms of the contest, taking control from the first minute and never allowing your opponent a foothold in the game. That is the football that Spurs aspire to, the football that they have slowly slipped away from over the past few months. Maybe this overdue defeat will remind the players where they need to get back to.
Agree with all of this. Last game we controlled fully was over 2 months ago v Newcastle
ohtottenham!
Well-Known Member
- Aug 15, 2013
- 7,504
- 13,047
We were missing VDV and Maddison in that game too. We had Davies partnering Romero, and Biss, Sarr and Kulu playing behind BJ, Son and Richie.
whenstevewentup
Well-Known Member
- Sep 12, 2021
- 427
- 1,367
My season ticket is in the south stand but yesterday I sat in the lower west not far from our bench and what struck me was Ange spent the entire 90 mins with his hands in his pockets and I genuinely didn’t see him say a word all game , O’Neill never stopped guiding his players , encouraging them etc , now this may have been a one off but if u watch Pep , klopp and arteta they are constantly giving out instructions , now maybe Ange's style of football is such a Plan A or nothing and players know their jobs they don’t need any guidance or encouragement but I found that quite worrying . I don’t normally watch Ange during a game so maybe yesterday was a one off but we were so poor I was amazed he wasn’t at all vocal .
sidford
Well-Known Member
- Oct 20, 2003
- 11,391
- 29,937
Yea true we havnt controlled games in last few months but managed to pick up wins during that period.
I genuinely think some people have lost perspective because of how we started.
Not one of us would have predicted we would be 2 points off 4th with a cushion to 6th and only 10 points behind the leaders after 2/3 of season.
As a club and fans we were on our knees after Jose, Nuno, Conte, stellini, Levy's continued bad decisions, no football structure, sold arguably our best ever player and a stale squad.
Reckon most of us at start of season would have said if we finish between 6-10th showing progress throughout the season while trying to implement an evident progressive style of play we would have taken that.
This is what a true transitional season looks like not those shit seasons during 90's and early 2000's were we convinced ourselves they were transitional but really we were just shit.
Some people really do need to take a step back and try and see the bigger picture
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
- 34,347
- 83,631
Good post.
I think Ange might be a victim of how well he started and expectations rose. If we were currently on the run from n our first 8 games but had 3 less points we’d strangely probably be feeling more positive right now.
There were always going to be blips, ups and downs and areas to work on.
We need to defend set pieces better, be more clinical and get squad players who suit our playing style better.
This all takes time but as long as we don’t implode this will be a decent season for us.
Yeah. Reading back the first two or three pages of the “race for the…” thread, most people seem happy with a top six finish with a smattering saying we should be aiming for top four. This is before we sold Kane of course and before we made a terrific start to the season. Reading back the early pages of that thread is useful to gain a sense of perspective:
bubble07
Well-Known Member
- Dec 27, 2004
- 23,166
- 30,335
Agree. Think most of us were getting carried away. 8 wins and 2 draws first 10 games is insane and we were playing so much better than recent seasons.
Won't lie I was thinking title was on as we had no Europe. But we need think back to last season and the toxicity of the club
It's night and day from now. I think not having a game next week will help us and IF we can get our first 11 out v Palace that will be such a psychological boost to both the team and fans and genuinely think we can give Palace a good hiding and then go on another run
Also eze and Olise prob won't be playing either
Villa an United are just as inconsistent as us hence the league positions
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