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Player Watch Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

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Nick-TopSpursMan

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Aug 4, 2005
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Yep. I think he is a good player but he just hasn't done it for Spurs since he joined so I'm always surprised at how many people seem to think he is the answer. Is this really a crazy thing to say?

Except this season he's been consistently good and made a positive impact whenever he is on the pitch.

He has only started 4 PL games yet has 2 goals and 2 assists, with his goals coming against top opponents in Villa and City.

He is injury prone and that's his single biggest issue but this season when he has been available he has been excellent.
 

Hercules

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Jul 23, 2014
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Yep. I think he is a good player but he just hasn't done it for Spurs since he joined so I'm always surprised at how many people seem to think he is the answer. Is this really a crazy thing to say?
In essence, not crazy thing. But there is a big question mark over how we used him. Was it not under Jose he played quite a lot? I could be mistaken. The fact is for what money we get for him (not much) I think he has value. Yesterday he shouid of replaced Maddison for last 25 minutes
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
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In essence, not crazy thing. But there is a big question mark over how we used him. Was it not under Jose he played quite a lot? I could be mistaken. The fact is for what money we get for him (not much) I think he has value. Yesterday he shouid of replaced Maddison for last 25 minutes
Not necessarily - I see Kulu as being most effective in that number 10 position and is probably Maddison's first rotation option there with Gio being second. Kulu has done much more in a Spurs shirt that Gio has so I was totally fine with him coming on. I'd have been fine with Gio coming on and playing there as well but I don't get the big call for Gio over Kulu other than possibly Kulu being in a bit of a poor form patch.
 

djhotspur

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Aug 31, 2021
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Not necessarily - I see Kulu as being most effective in that number 10 position and is probably Maddison's first rotation option there with Gio being second. Kulu has done much more in a Spurs shirt that Gio has so I was totally fine with him coming on. I'd have been fine with Gio coming on and playing there as well but I don't get the big call for Gio over Kulu other than possibly Kulu being in a bit of a poor form patch.
Based upon what though? What has kulu done in a spurs shirt at 10.
 

Ghost Hardware

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Aug 31, 2012
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Yep. I think he is a good player but he just hasn't done it for Spurs since he joined so I'm always surprised at how many people seem to think he is the answer. Is this really a crazy thing to say?
I’d say it’s because this season he has been excellent when he’s featured. I mean even from a stats perspective he is right up with the top performers in his position in the league per 90. He is 100% deserving of more game time. When looking at his performances which are backed up by the stats I’m not really sure what one can say against him aside from his susceptibility to injury.

IMG_7852.jpeg
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
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I’d say it’s because this season he has been excellent when he’s featured. I mean even from a stats perspective he is right up with the top performers in his position in the league per 90. He is 100% deserving of more game time. When looking at his performances which are backed up by the stats I’m not really sure what one can say against him aside from his susceptibility to injury.

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That's all well and good however he has only had 4 matches this season where he has been able to play over 60 mins. 4!! This guy is not the answer.
 

Ghost Hardware

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Aug 31, 2012
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That's all well and good however he has only had 4 matches this season where he has been able to play over 60 mins. 4!! This guy is not the answer.
That was hardly his choice was it tho. He still featured in 15 pl games and an unused sub for a further 6 showing that he was fit enough to play more of a role and in the games he’s featured he’s clearly delivered as the stats show. You can hardly blame Gio for not getting more minutes when he has been on the bench and performing to a very high standard when given the chance. If he was out injured then I would agree with you but he’s only missed 1 more game then VDV this season and 2 more then Maddison.
 
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HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
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That was hardly his choice was it tho. He still featured in 15 pl games showing that he was fit enough to play more of a role and in the games he’s featured he’s clearly delivered as the stats show. You can hardly blame Gio for not getting more minutes when he has been on the bench and performing to a very high standard when given the chance. If he was out injured then I would agree with you but he’s only missed 1 more game then VDV this season and 2 more then Maddison.
His average minutes over those 15 appearances is 29.5. He had a spell of 3 matches in November/early December when he played on average 77 mins and he played the match against Bournemouth at the end of December when he played 82 mins. If you are really going to push the 'featured in 15 PL games' thing then let's be honest - he had 4 games when he played most of the match and then his 11 other appearances had an average of 9 mins 45 seconds.

Your comment 'If he was out injured then I would agree with you but he’s only missed 1 more game then VDV this season and 2 more then Maddison' is very misleading - VDV missed 10 games with the hamstring injury but played 90 mins in most of the 19 games he has played this season. Maddison missed 10 matches with his ankle injury and has played 20 games for on average 76 mins per match. You are trying to compare a player who hasn't even played a full 90 mins once this season to these two and hoping that it's a fair comparison.

I realise it's not his fault he has been injured but it's also a clear indication he just can't stay fit and as good a player as he may be - he needs to go and we shouldn't be relying on him at all.
 
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Trix

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Jul 29, 2004
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That was hardly his choice was it tho. He still featured in 15 pl games and an unused sub for a further 6 showing that he was fit enough to play more of a role and in the games he’s featured he’s clearly delivered as the stats show. You can hardly blame Gio for not getting more minutes when he has been on the bench and performing to a very high standard when given the chance. If he was out injured then I would agree with you but he’s only missed 1 more game then VDV this season and 2 more then Maddison.
I wonder if there's some reluctance to use him more because Ange knows he's off in the Summer? It's the same with PEH. When he's come in he's done well enough to warrant more minutes imo.

Ange keeps driving it at press conferences that it's not about now, it's about progressing and learning the system and philosophy. The question may well be, is it more important for those still here next season to be more in tune with what we want to become than those who are not going to be here.
 

Hercules

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Jul 23, 2014
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I wonder if there's some reluctance to use him more because Ange knows he's off in the Summer? It's the same with PEH. When he's come in he's done well enough to warrant more minutes imo.

Ange keeps driving it at press conferences that it's not about now, it's about progressing and learning the system and philosophy. The question may well be, is it more important for those still here next season to be more in tune with what we want to become than those who are not going to be here.
Good point
 

Ghost Hardware

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Aug 31, 2012
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His average minutes over those 15 appearances is 29.5. He had a spell of 3 matches in November/early December when he played on average 77 mins and he played the match against Bournemouth at the end of December when he played 82 mins. If you are really going to push the 'featured in 15 PL games' thing then let's be honest - he had 4 games when he played most of the match and then his 11 other appearances had an average of 9 mins 45 seconds.

I realise it's not his fault he has been injured but it's also a clear indication he just can't stay fit and as good a player as he may be - he needs to go and we shouldn't be relying on him at all.
Again you suggesting that it’s his choice he had so few minutes off the bench. I’m sure if you asked him he would have happily started a good chunk of those games. If he wasn’t fit enough to play he wouldn’t have been in the match day squad but he was, on 21 occasions this season. It’s quite possible some of those he wasn’t 100% fit but one would just be guessing at that point as to the degree. I think it’s unlikely to be all or even half of then tho. The only thing you are really highlighting with those numbers is Ange favouring Maddison and his reluctance to use Gio not if he was fit enough to play or not. I mean we’ve played a number of players half crocked this season so he wouldn’t be alone even if that was the case. Even now he’s hardly getting much game time yet then played two very good 70+ mins games for Argentina in quick succession, that to me implies he’s more then capable of playing more mins if Ange wanted him to. I can only think of one or possibly two instances this season when Ange said they were managing his minutes and I’m fairly sure he wasn’t even on the bench at that point. As I pointed out he has only missed 13 games this season through injury thus far and been in the squad in all cups 23 times. When he’s featured he’s been excellent. Regardless if he goes in the summer, which is unfortunately likely, he should be getting more mins whilst he’s fit as when he’s played he has been consistently excellent as the stats show.
 

Ghost Hardware

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Aug 31, 2012
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I wonder if there's some reluctance to use him more because Ange knows he's off in the Summer? It's the same with PEH. When he's come in he's done well enough to warrant more minutes imo.

Ange keeps driving it at press conferences that it's not about now, it's about progressing and learning the system and philosophy. The question may well be, is it more important for those still here next season to be more in tune with what we want to become than those who are not going to be here.
I agree that’s probably the case but I’d also say PEH has featured a lot this season because he is a useful player. Gio has proved that he is also a useful player in this system yet hasn’t been getting the same minutes even when he has been available and could very easily have helped the squad at certain points in game. Yesterday being a clear example. I mean PEH came on before Gio.

I agree that clearly Kulu was brought on because Ange sees a future for him and doesn’t for Gio but if you’re going to take of Maddison then if you want to try and win the game you put Gio in. Might not have worked but he has shown to be decisive player this season. Why give him 5 mins at the end.

If it’s more about embedding the ethos into the players that will be here next season then why give PEH so much game time over say a youth player for instance. I’d say the answer is to win games and playing PEH will give you the best chance of doing that which then takes me back to the initial point, why not give Gio the same amount of mins as PEH if a situation calls for it. He did it on Sat and it payed off but then didn’t do yesterday when he could have had the same effect.

I get that he will be off in the summer. It seems pretty much nailed on. I do find it a shame tho as he’s clearly a very talented player who fits this system like a glove. I get there are other factors involved contract and injuries. I just think regardless what Ange says publicly I’m sure everyone at the club wants to get top 4 and he has relied on PEH to win games so why not use Gio also who clearly fits in his ethos.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
9,153
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Again you suggesting that it’s his choice he had so few minutes off the bench. I’m sure if you asked him he would have happily started a good chunk of those games. If he wasn’t fit enough to play he wouldn’t have been in the match day squad but he was, on 21 occasions this season. It’s quite possible some of those he wasn’t 100% fit but one would just be guessing at that point as to the degree. I think it’s unlikely to be all or even half of then tho. The only thing you are really highlighting with those numbers is Ange favouring Maddison and his reluctance to use Gio not if he was fit enough to play or not. I mean we’ve played a number of players half crocked this season so he wouldn’t be alone even if that was the case. Even now he’s hardly getting much game time yet then played two very good 70+ mins games for Argentina in quick succession, that to me implies he’s more then capable of playing more mins if Ange wanted him to. I can only think of one or possibly two instances this season when Ange said they were managing his minutes and I’m fairly sure he wasn’t even on the bench at that point. As I pointed out he has only missed 13 games this season through injury thus far and been in the squad in all cups 23 times. When he’s featured he’s been excellent. Regardless if he goes in the summer, which is unfortunately likely, he should be getting more mins whilst he’s fit as when he’s played he has been consistently excellent as the stats show.
As Trix has suggested I suspect he is looking to let Gio go in the summer (rightly imo) and would rather give players that will be in the squad next season and beyond more experience playing in his system.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
9,153
28,641
I agree that’s probably the case but I’d also say PEH has featured a lot this season because he is a useful player. Gio has proved that he is also a useful player in this system yet hasn’t been getting the same minutes even when he has been available and could very easily have helped the squad at certain points in game. Yesterday being a clear example. I mean PEH came on before Gio.

I agree that clearly Kulu was brought on because Ange sees a future for him and doesn’t for Gio but if you’re going to take of Maddison then if you want to try and win the game you put Gio in. Might not have worked but he has shown to be decisive player this season. Why give him 5 mins at the end.

If it’s more about embedding the ethos into the players that will be here next season then why give PEH so much game time over say a youth player for instance. I’d say the answer is to win games and playing PEH will give you the best chance of doing that which then takes me back to the initial point, why not give Gio the same amount of mins as PEH if a situation calls for it. He did it on Sat and it payed off but then didn’t do yesterday when he could have had the same effect.

I get that he will be off in the summer. It seems pretty much nailed on. I do find it a shame tho as he’s clearly a very talented player who fits this system like a glove. I get there are other factors involved contract and injuries. I just think regardless what Ange says publicly I’m sure everyone at the club wants to get top 4 and he has relied on PEH to win games so why not use Gio also who clearly fits in his ethos.
Probably because there is less strength in depth in the position that PEH is covering than where Lo Celso plays but also because he trusts PEH to come on and help see a match out which is more suited to his position and style as well.
 

Goobers

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Jul 29, 2011
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I wonder if there's some reluctance to use him more because Ange knows he's off in the Summer? It's the same with PEH. When he's come in he's done well enough to warrant more minutes imo.

Ange keeps driving it at press conferences that it's not about now, it's about progressing and learning the system and philosophy. The question may well be, is it more important for those still here next season to be more in tune with what we want to become than those who are not going to be here.
IF the decision has been made that he is off in the summer I can see the reasoning why but he has played well in parts this season and offered some cameos that have been important too.
Poor Deki is in a slump in form and I think bringing him on to replace Madders was a mistake and would rather have seen GLC there.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
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I agree that’s probably the case but I’d also say PEH has featured a lot this season because he is a useful player. Gio has proved that he is also a useful player in this system yet hasn’t been getting the same minutes even when he has been available and could very easily have helped the squad at certain points in game. Yesterday being a clear example. I mean PEH came on before Gio.

I agree that clearly Kulu was brought on because Ange sees a future for him and doesn’t for Gio but if you’re going to take of Maddison then if you want to try and win the game you put Gio in. Might not have worked but he has shown to be decisive player this season. Why give him 5 mins at the end.

If it’s more about embedding the ethos into the players that will be here next season then why give PEH so much game time over say a youth player for instance. I’d say the answer is to win games and playing PEH will give you the best chance of doing that which then takes me back to the initial point, why not give Gio the same amount of mins as PEH if a situation calls for it. He did it on Sat and it payed off but then didn’t do yesterday when he could have had the same effect.

I get that he will be off in the summer. It seems pretty much nailed on. I do find it a shame tho as he’s clearly a very talented player who fits this system like a glove. I get there are other factors involved contract and injuries. I just think regardless what Ange says publicly I’m sure everyone at the club wants to get top 4 and he has relied on PEH to win games so why not use Gio also who clearly fits in his ethos.
I don't disagree with any of that, I'm just trying to make sense of it and that's all I can come up with.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
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I get that our position is he'll probably be off.

I understand ultilising the players that will be here next season.

But he',s on the bench, a rare 20 minute cameo here and there, to improve our chances of winning, is hardly going to hinder the overall direction we're heading in.
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
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Probably because there is less strength in depth in the position that PEH is covering than where Lo Celso plays but also because he trusts PEH to come on and help see a match out which is more suited to his position and style as well.

Hojbjerg is also a leader. We’ve lost some big personalities over the last 3-4 years and now have very few left at the club and it shows on the pitch. As much as Lo Celso is a better technician than PEH, the latter is the type to take both the players and game by the scruff of the neck and get the job done.
 
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