Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Nick-TopSpursMan said:

Klopp finished 8th in his first season at Liverpool.

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Sp3akerboxxx said:

First full season.

Dont see the point in comparing the season where he started in October Vs a full season and pre-season for Ange with a summer window.

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Sp3akerboxxx said:

First full season.

Dont see the point in comparing the season where he started in October Vs a full season and pre-season for Ange with a summer window.

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Nick-TopSpursMan said:

Then it’s also not fair to compare Ange this season to Klopp when Klopp had 8 months of a previous season to work and prepare before his first full season.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

Suppose we won’t know until we give Ange at least one more big transfer window and more time.

There have been positive signs from it and also concerning signs.

I think if we had a top class LW then they’d have headed that Werner chance back across and into the goal to make it 1-0 and it’s a completely different game for example.

Also we have to remember that Sarr is 21, VDV is 22, Udogie is 22, Johnson is 22 etc so this team and these players also still need time to develop.

For me the personnel issues are clear:
1. ST - Son can’t play against a low block/back 5, sign a top class proper striker who can hold up the ball and move son back to LW next season
2. WF - we need to sign 1 ideally 2 top top class wing forwards to can cross and score, Werner is far too wasteful to be a starting LW and Johnson is still young and inconsistent albeit a great prospect.
3. DM - Biss and PEH neither seem to be the answer, compare them to likes of Rice and Rodri etc they are miles off what we need especially in a system like this
4. Back-up creative AM who Ange will use. Since his injury comeback, Maddison has been well below par, Ange doesn’t play Lo Celso and Kulu isn’t really proven quality in that area
5 4th CB
6 Improved CM option compared to PEH & Skipp
7 & 8!Better back-up RB & LB if Porro & Udogie get injured
9 Younger more suitable back-up GK to Vicario

1-5 are a must this summer.
6-9 are needed at some point.

And then we will know if Ange needs to tweak his system a bit or if it isn’t sustainable at this level but I think it’ll be fine with more time and better players, it took Pep, Klopp, Arteta etc all a few seasons for it to click and with far better players and bigger budgets than Ange has.

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Nick-TopSpursMan said:

If the same weaknesses exist this time next season with no sign of improvement then it’s fair to criticise and worry.

Until then every single one of us needs to have some perspective and remember about being patient and grinding out a project/rebuild.

We are joint 4th in the table after 32 games and we lost Kane in the summer. We’re doing ok, we’ve had some bad games along the way.

Now we need to finish the season as well as we can and learn from this season. Improve in the transfer market and tweak our tactics for next season to become stronger.

Just try and remember how rubbish Scum looked for 2 seasons under Arteta finishing 8th! Or how open we were under Poch in 14/15 before we improved significantly the following season. Or how Klopp improved Pool after an initial 8th placed finish.

We have the play style of a top team. We dominate the ball, we play on the front foot and our mentality is to control games. That’s the hardest part and that style of play is what winning teams do. If we were playing negative football on the back foot I’d know it’s going nowhere as it’s not how top teams play.

Now Ange has to fix the glaring weaknesses:

- Rest defence isn’t good enough, needs to improve. Need to add a defensive beast at 6 and tweak our shape at times to a 3-2 rest defence.
- Defending set pieces needs to improve massively.
- Our attack and midfield have to retain the ball better in tight passing sequences.

Add to that coaching and natural player development and let’s see where we are in 12 months time. Then and only then should we have serious question marks.

Otherwise we’re just proving we don’t have the courage or patience to build an actual team, which takes time and has dips along the way.

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Bobbins said:

All the positions you’ve listed where we need to buy are areas where we’ve spent absolute fortunes over the last few seasons.

It can’t constantly be about needing new players, about “we need to upgrade”, about “if we had top top players in position X”. Yes if we had the best players we’d win more, presumably. We can’t buy the best players though.

We supposedly have top players already. We supposedly bought top players in the summer and January.

This squad has had more turnover in the last three years than probably any other team in the PL. it’s just not the answer.

Given our latest financial results, which show an utterly awful result of player trading once again, it’s also almost certainly not financially possible.

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jpascavitz said:

Pep's finishes: 3, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1
Klopp finishes: 8, 4, 4, 2, 1, 3, 2, 5
Arteta finishes: 8, 8, 5, 2, 1

It looks like we'll be somewhere in the middle of those first season results, not sure if that helps people's frustrations. I understand that in today's game patience has completely gone out the window and overreactions happen after almost every match whether win or loss, but I think we all know that at this time last year most thought it would take multiple YEARS to get to a better place.

I still think the early season run of results has contributed to the overreactions now. But he simply does need time and patience and there's probably nothing more to the story at this time, whether that's boring to read or frustrating, then I don't know what else to add at this point!

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jpascavitz said:

Pep's finishes: 3, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1
Klopp finishes: 8, 4, 4, 2, 1, 3, 2, 5
Arteta finishes: 8, 8, 5, 2, 1

It looks like we'll be somewhere in the middle of those first season results, not sure if that helps people's frustrations. I understand that in today's game patience has completely gone out the window and overreactions happen after almost every match whether win or loss, but I think we all know that at this time last year most thought it would take multiple YEARS to get to a better place.

I still think the early season run of results has contributed to the overreactions now. But he simply does need time and patience and there's probably nothing more to the story at this time, whether that's boring to read or frustrating, then I don't know what else to add at this point!

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Johnny J said:

We hold onto players who aren't a good fit, aren't working out or are on a clear decline way, way too long.

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Stamford said:

I can't get my head around him not changing things at set pieces. It's been a problem for ages now and it's not improving at all.

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Sp3akerboxxx said:

I don't think Klopps first season should count as he only joined midway through October.

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jpascavitz said:

Fair! I just pulled quickly from what I could find lol. I would fully expect us to follow Klopps timeline and would be OK with it myself personally as it also kind of mirrors Poch's tenure with us. A couple seasons of consistent UCL football then challenging for the top.

In all honesty, next season does prove a bigger test for Ange. Likely Europe of some sort, and it's still going to be extremely difficult to compete in the league. After seeing some reactions online of our current season, I don't know if the patience for another 4/5th position will be there.

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jpascavitz said:

Pep's finishes: 3, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1
Klopp finishes: 8, 4, 4, 2, 1, 3, 2, 5
Arteta finishes: 8, 8, 5, 2, 1

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