Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

fishhhandaricecake said:

Can we just auto send this brilliant message to anyone who is OTT questioning Ange and saying Ange out etc, context and perspective is needed right now after this rough run of results and performances and it’ll be exactly the same thing needing to be said when we likely lose quite a few matches in our run-in of hard games.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

Agree our players aren’t good enough but not the ones you mentioned, Vicario, VDV, Porro have for the most part been phenomenal this season and are all still young with bags of room to improve.

Udogie has had a great 1st season in a new league and is still young with bags of room for improvement although I would sign a top LB this summer and move Usogie to back-up but for me it’s mostly our attacking players that are the biggest issue along with CDM right now.

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ronzalo said:

Let’s not hate on the guy. The defence is poor at the moment, but he’s also still learning the PL at the top level. We’ll be better next year.

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rossdapep said:

I said after the Fulham game that the season had ended for me in terms of expectation.

What I mean by that is, and it isn't a negative, that we have learnt all we have needed to from this season and the picture on how to get better has become clearer.

Like when we got hammered 5-1, by Newcastle incidentally, last game of Pochs second season. Poch made a strong statement that day, that's because a number of things were confirmed to him.

Here are a few things that I think will have become clear for Ange going forward.

1. None of Bentancur or Bissouma are the 6 answee and we need a better defensively minded 6 - may even use a ball playing CB there like City have done.

2. Our wingers must score and effect the game more regularly.

3. We need to be able to change our entire midfield with no drop in quality or ability to play the roles asked because it requires 100% intensity which also means...

4. Players cannot be passengers and they must perform more consistently (rotation gives you the ability to sit them out).

5. Tweak the system slightly when needed so we go with 3 CBs or 2 with a DM screening, which will give more freedom to the other players in the system.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

Such a good post and so spot on especially about “the moment you compromise you fail” exactly that, if you want to truly build something then you stick to your vision and plan and stay true to yourself and slowly slowly change the players to suit it.

Imagine if Klopp had come into Liverpool and not played gegenpressing 4–3-3 and just adapted to suit below par players or the same for pep, imagine if he’d come to city and kept joe hart and some others and not played the way he wanted or Arteta just kept going with Xhaka and Aubameyang and adapted to suit them, NO, as you say these top managers have a system and a belief in that system and they over a number of seasons and transfer windows get rid of players who don’t fit and bring in ones who do.

Yes Ange’s system might be a tad too gung ho and he might need to tweak it a bit but it’s so obvious and has been for a while that our squad is still no where near where it needs to be as soon as we get an injury or 2 we suffer so much, take Richarlison for example, he’s not even good enough for where we want to be but with him injured we end up playing son up top who is ineffective there against low blocks and Werner LW who is so wasteful, if we signed Nico Williams and Ivan Toney for example, today would’ve been a different story.

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spurs mental said:

I don't think anyone has said Ange out.

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rossdapep said:

I said after the Fulham game that the season had ended for me in terms of expectation.

What I mean by that is, and it isn't a negative, that we have learnt all we have needed to from this season and the picture on how to get better has become clearer.

Like when we got hammered 5-1, by Newcastle incidentally, last game of Pochs second season. Poch made a strong statement that day, that's because a number of things were confirmed to him.

Here are a few things that I think will have become clear for Ange going forward.

1. None of Bentancur or Bissouma are the 6 answee and we need a better defensively minded 6 - may even use a ball playing CB there like City have done.

2. Our wingers must score and effect the game more regularly.

3. We need to be able to change our entire midfield with no drop in quality or ability to play the roles asked because it requires 100% intensity which also means...

4. Players cannot be passengers and they must perform more consistently (rotation gives you the ability to sit them out).

5. Tweak the system slightly when needed so we go with 3 CBs or 2 with a DM screening, which will give more freedom to the other players in the system.

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ultimateloner said:

I’m trying to say that the highlighted players, who as you said have done well this far, also have their weaknesses which can be exposed aka today’s game. I’m not saying they aren’t good enough for us.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

Can we just auto send this brilliant message to anyone who is OTT questioning Ange and saying Ange out etc, context and perspective is needed right now after this rough run of results and performances and it’ll be exactly the same thing needing to be said when we likely lose quite a few matches in our run-in of hard games.

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Johnny J said:

Fairly sure at least one person did in the match thread.

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spurs mental said:

Well that's just silly

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Monkey boy said:

if love to share your optimism but I can’t. I don’t think Ange has the same mentality as Poch, he seems to just accept defeats with a shrug of the shoulders. The whole top 4 is not important is loser mentality. It’s not because he genuinely doesn’t care it’s because he’s not wanting to put pressure on himself. You know that madders, son and Bissouma will start the next game which tells you all you need to know. They’ve been crap for weeks but now they’re place is secure.

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Jaddas said:

I don't know why some are comparing Ange's first season with Legohead, Klopp and Pep. The latter 2 were top drawer managers with success in far tougher leagues than Ange, so they already had top level pedigree. Legohead managed to win the FA Cup in his first season, where I think they beat Pep's City and Conte's Chelsea (champions and champions elect) in semi and final.

With all due respect to Ange, his most notable title was the Scottish championship. Not belittling his achievements, but the EPL is different gravy, and we've had the same problems for months now. It could be that we were spoilt with the start, but we are seeing the same problems game in game out, with no adjustments. Throw in the some strange team selections, excessive minutes to those out of form, lack of minutes to the youth, passive nature on the touchline etc, and I can see why some are concerned.

I think the NLD in a couple of weeks is now even more important. We could've been humiliated today even worse than last season. If we play the same way in a couple of weeks, then it could get embarrassing.

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Hoddle&Waddle said:

I think the attack is the bigger issue.

Werner and Johnson are substandard as much as the happy clappers want to disagree. Neither would get into Westham or Newcastles first 11.

We control games well and we DO progress the ball up the pitch, but there is a lack of intelligent movement and just general quality.

My preference for the Summer would be a CF, RW and a DM to protect the defence.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

Couldn’t disagree more.

Ange has better mentality than Poch, Poch was very emotional and spoke in riddles, Ange is aiming for the top of Everest which is why if in his first season we come 4th,5th,6th he is saying it doesn’t matter as long as overall the team are progressing.

It’s actually the opposite of what you’re saying, he’s not concerning himself with 4th and making it I my o a big deal because he wants to change the mentality to 1st is the goal always, not 4th.

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spurs mental said:

I don't think we are over rating them, they have, in games, shown exactly what they are capable of. They have high ceilings.

The fact they have flaws just means they can be coached better.

Our players being exposed is down to the tactics, (if they're not good enough which i don't believe is the case).

Of course, they need more coaching and reduce the weaknesses they do have but until they're at that level we need to play with less naivety and more solidity. Even if it sets us back a few months of the system in full flow. It's about results and winning football matches, especially at the business end of the season.

It absolutely does matter if we get battered by Arsenal, regardless of how much better they are and further along they are in their process than Ange. It's the fucking NLD.

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Monkey boy said:

if love to share your optimism but I can’t. I don’t think Ange has the same mentality as Poch, he seems to just accept defeats with a shrug of the shoulders. The whole top 4 is not important is loser mentality. It’s not because he genuinely doesn’t care it’s because he’s not wanting to put pressure on himself. You know that madders, son and Bissouma will start the next game which tells you all you need to know. They’ve been crap for weeks but now they’re place is secure.

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ultimateloner said:

They are certainly capable of good performances and are suited to pro-active football, which was why we bought them in the first place. Yes they can be coached better.

I disagree though with how highly you value tactics.

For argument sake if Mourinho/Conte was still here and we played counter-attack with Emerson/Davies instead of Porro/Udoghie; we would probably gotten a better result today. However we would also sacrifice the on-the-ball qualities they offer. I don't think you change your tactics/style/personnel on a game-by-game to cover-up their flaws; you can do it marginally but 4-0 is too far a stretch for that.

We are getting results. We are 5th with 60 points. I think we are way ahead of schedule; I didn't expect us to get into Europe this year after losing Kane.

I also dont understand your expectations re NLD: Arsenal's better, both sides will lift their game, the better one is more likely to win. So if we get smashed in the process because we pushed too far forward and got exposed like we did today, or if we played deep and lost 1-0, what diff does it make? Still a loss to a better team.

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