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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

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ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
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fishhhandaricecake said:
Ah ok yes fair points, a lot of our players are still very young and none are world class signings off the bat like a Gravidol etc as we don’t have the money for that so yea all of them will be raw in certain aspects, Ange said as much many times that as well as signing new players we also need time to develop the ones we have.
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Yep the extent to which Ange can develop our players is how I would gauge him; and so far the signs are quite good. Son has grown. Johnson's getting better. Romero's discipline is better.
Biss is getting worse and is my main concern. The others like Madders likely due to injury which is out of his control.
 
rossdapep

rossdapep

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Aug 25, 2011
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fishhhandaricecake said:
Ah ok yes fair points, a lot of our players are still very young and none are world class signings off the bat like a Gravidol etc as we don’t have the money for that so yea all of them will be raw in certain aspects, Ange said as much many times that as well as signing new players we also need time to develop the ones we have.
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It's a really good point.

Sarr, Van de Ven, Vicario, Udogie, Johnson are all still learning so when older heads are not performing, they will have blips too.
 
Krafty

Krafty

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May 26, 2004
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Got to give him time - this team was always going to take time to turn around, he’s lost the best number 9 in the world, to be competing for a champions league place is a good achievement.

Yes, I do expect us to move on to another level of performance with another pre-season and more squad evolution under Ange’s belt, but I think/hope he is trying to cement a mentality and some structured plays and allowing individuals to make errors while it happens, with the caveat being that next season mistakes and errors will be tolerated a lot less.

A lot of the recurring starting eleven looks dead on their feet at the moment - could be a sign that Ange is not good at rotating, could be that he knows now who he wants and does not want for next season and he isnt going to waste too much time on those he doesn’t fancy.
 
Mr Pink

Mr Pink

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Aug 25, 2010
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Yep we all need to give Ange the time to build and implement his style fully.

The one slight concern i have is the lack of effort from the team sometimes. Thats nothing to do with tactics, its to do with desire and attitude.

I mean Newcastle wanted it so much more, it was literally night and day.

We just dont seem to be able dig in and scrap when needed.

I think thats a prerequsite to be successful and consistent in this league.

I hope Agne recognises this moving forward.
 
spurs mental

spurs mental

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Mar 10, 2007
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ultimateloner said:
I also dont understand your expectations re NLD: Arsenal's better, both sides will lift their game, the better one is more likely to win. So if we get smashed in the process because we pushed too far forward and got exposed like we did today, or if we played deep and lost 1-0, what diff does it make? Still a loss to a better team.
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The NLD is important, if we get smashed like we did today in our own yard it's embarrassing, and it causes even more angst among fans about Ange and how the team is performing.

I don't see us playing as badly as we did today but I am concerned now with the level of performances we've seen.

I'd rather lose 1-0 sitting deep and counter attacking then losing by 4 or 5 playing kamikaze football we've seen today. At least losing 1-0 would show we have some defensive capabilities vs just sitting on the half way line and letting their attackers have the freedom to run at Vicario

At 1-0 you're still in the game too. At 3 and 4 you're playing to not be embarrassed any further. GD could also be really important in the scheme of things for 4th.

I don't believe playing an uncompromising system so that the players are learning and we take a few batterings is exactly the greatest either.
 
JUSTINSIGNAL

JUSTINSIGNAL

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Jul 10, 2008
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npearl4spurs said:
It's only worthwhile comparing to the other managers to make a point about shifting to a different style of football with different coaching from the manager and a different environment being put into place.

The point stands that you're going to have some wobbly moments in the first season. We've had highs and we've had lows. We already knew that was going to happen this season. We've had higher highs, I believe, than we thought possible this season (I'm thinking 4-1 home to Newcastle, 0-4 away to Villa, winning 2-1 at home 2nd match against United, winning 2-1 at home to Liverpool, 3-3 draw at the Etihad, 2-2 draw at Arsenal). I'm not sure it can be argued we have had lower lows than expected.

The bad results hurt as much as they did with previous managers but the football that is being taught and painfully not perfected yet is altogether different - anyone can see that. But, and I know this is hard for all of us and especially the younger and super knee-jerky reactionary ones, when you take a step back and observe the whole season, there is a lot to be proud of and build off of.

COYS. The future is bright.
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Thankyou for some perspective.
 
RuskyM

RuskyM

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Jul 9, 2011
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Got hammered in Poch's first season a few times too: Stoke did the double over us, United were 3-0 up after 30 minutes, Paulinho's shot against Burnley went out for a throw-in, and we lost at home to Newcastle, West Brom, bottom of the table Leicester in the FA Cup and Tim sodding Sherwood's Aston Villa.

We then didn't win the first four games of the next season either. We had something worth believing in and we stuck it out.
 
Teegart

Teegart

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Jun 30, 2006
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Till the end of the season, all I ask is for us to sort out these defensive corners. Can I at least have that? Ground hog day every time.
 
ItsBoris

ItsBoris

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Jan 18, 2011
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Sp3akerboxxx said:
I think it's more due to the fact that Contes system revolved around wing backs, and we gave him Emerson and Davies/Sess, he was never afforded this "he hasn't got the right players" excuse.

With Ange if one of Porro or Udogie are injured I've seen people literally say "how could he possibly be expected to win without Porro? You know how important full backs are to his system".
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Conte with Udogie, Van De Ven, Sarr, Maddison, Dragusin, Johnson as options would probably be quite a different proposition imo. Although losing Kane he probably would have thrown his toys out the pram.
 
Hoddle&Waddle

Hoddle&Waddle

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Nov 25, 2012
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rossdapep said:
Disagree on Johnson, he'd get into those sides and there's more to come from him.

However, I agree with the rest.

A lot of people have been clamouring for Werner, Son and Johnson.

The problem with that is none of them create against compact defences, they don't stretch the pitch and Son isn't effective at retaining the ball.

Look at most top teams and they have a balance.

A winger who can hug the line but cut in and provide/score.

A winger that can either do the same on the other side or gets a bit closer to the CF.

A CF that is a real focal point or one that floats and makes the 3 more fluid.

We don't have that.

Werner is a runner who isn't effective at finishing.

Son is a runner and finisher.

Deki is a playmaker who plays wide but lacks the light feet in small spaces.

Johnson is getting better but is mostly a run in behind or around type.

Only Deki has excellent ball retention in tight spaces and he is off it.

Richy pops up with goals in good moments but isn't going to create hos own chances.

Mane was superb at retaining the ball and scoring.

Salah superb at everything.

Firmino had elite movement.

I chose those 3 cause those are the most similar to what we have.

Not too mention the wingers need to fit Anges system.

They need to be able to pull the defence so that we have space to exploit and they need to be top 1v1 platers so they can take full backs out.

We've essentially traded Kane for one of Richy or Werner and then moved Son from his best position to fit.

So of course we have downgraded massively.
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No chance Johnson gets In over Bowen or Gordon.
 
ItsBoris

ItsBoris

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Jan 18, 2011
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Nick-TopSpursMan said:
What it really shows you is that Ange has made us more of a team.

Conte just sat back and defended then relied on world class Kane to save us.

That simply isn’t sustainable. Top teams don’t play that way. Top teams are the protagonist, they control possession, they play front foot and they try to attack as a team.

Now before you say it, I know we are too open at the back and we’re getting caught out too easily but guess what, so did Arteta, Klopp and Pep before they had time to build their teams.

Point is it’s worth building a team under Ange because:

1. He actually wants to be here
2. He plays a style of football which aligns with what top teams play.

There is a huge difference between what Ange is building and the shit we were being served by Conte and Mourinho, which was never going anywhere as it was dinosaur football.

Now I can’t tell you Ange will definitely succeed. I certainly hope so but what I can say is the way he tries to play and the way he’s trying to build is exactly what the top teams do and therefore it’s worth persisting with.
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Not always, look how Bayern played against Arsenal. Or Bayern against Barcelona for that matter. They adjust their playstyle depending on the opponent and can do both things well.

Both Mourinho's Inter and current Inter don't dominate possession but have run away with the Serie A. Real Madrid too, their real lethality is on the counter attack. Same for A Madrid.

I don't think Jose/Conte would have gone nowhere with this side. In fact I think hindsight has proven them both right in a lot of ways. But anyway no point relitigating it. I'm behind Ange still but it's difficult to remain that way when I see a few things going wrong that are so unbelievably elementary. Also literally every player on a downward trend is concerning.
 
U

ultimateloner

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Jan 25, 2004
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spurs mental said:
The NLD is important, if we get smashed like we did today in our own yard it's embarrassing, and it causes even more angst among fans about Ange and how the team is performing.

I don't see us playing as badly as we did today but I am concerned now with the level of performances we've seen.

I'd rather lose 1-0 sitting deep and counter attacking then losing by 4 or 5 playing kamikaze football we've seen today. At least losing 1-0 would show we have some defensive capabilities vs just sitting on the half way line and letting their attackers have the freedom to run at Vicario

At 1-0 you're still in the game too. At 3 and 4 you're playing to not be embarrassed any further. GD could also be really important in the scheme of things for 4th.

I don't believe playing an uncompromising system so that the players are learning and we take a few batterings is exactly the greatest either.
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For football fans yes; they would feel bad.
But for pro footballers they should know better. Someone like Romero or Son knows where they stand in the world-football order. Same for the coaches. For young players like Sarr they would also know who's better than who at what...it's what they do for a living.

Therefore I dont see a big defeat as anything other than that Arsenal is way better than us; which they are. Even us winning doesn't change that.
 
M

Monkey boy

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Jun 18, 2011
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Haven’t bothered looking up his post match comments but would hope that they were full of rockets up the arse of under performing players. I hoped that we would be seeing a mentality change but so far it’s the same old, same old. Win a few games against crap opposition but then get humiliated away from home against a team with a plan.
 
J

jolsnogross

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May 17, 2005
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The idea we're playing on the "front foot" consistently is a joke. We're back playing sideways ball in most games and doing almost nothing edgy with possession. And our press has gone to sleep. Add that Richrlison isn't up to much at centre forward and Son can't play there, and we've become a soft touch at times. Especially with this recurring shitty first half issue again.

I'd like Ange to not take the Werner option. And try to buy 2 cetre forwards in the window. We're going to stagnate quite a bit in his project unless we start crossing and shooting a shit load more than we have been.
 
spurs mental

spurs mental

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Mar 10, 2007
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ultimateloner said:
For football fans yes; they would feel bad.
But for pro footballers they should know better. Someone like Romero or Son knows where they stand in the world-football order. Same for the coaches. For young players like Sarr they would also know who's better than who at what...it's what they do for a living.

Therefore I dont see a big defeat as anything other than that Arsenal is way better than us; which they are. Even us winning doesn't change that.
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So you'd accept a big defeat in the NLD for the sake of the players learning the system for another 90 minutes?

Genuinely asking as I can't quite grasp what you're saying.
 
panoma

panoma

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Jan 16, 2012
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Hoddle&Waddle said:
I think the attack is the bigger issue.

Werner and Johnson are substandard as much as the happy clappers want to disagree. Neither would get into Westham or Newcastles first 11.

We control games well and we DO progress the ball up the pitch, but there is a lack of intelligent movement and just general quality.

My preference for the Summer would be a CF, RW and a DM to protect the defence.
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This is spot on.

Werner and Johnson is midtable quality and we rely on them for goals currently.

Sadly, Richarlisson and Kulusevski is not much better, if at all.

Even Son is in declining form. You could say that's expected from someone his age that relies on pace more than technique, and it won't be any better next season.

Need a major overhaul in the forwards area if we're going to do anything
 
sparx100

sparx100

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Jan 8, 2007
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Monkey boy said:
Haven’t bothered looking up his post match comments but would hope that they were full of rockets up the arse of under performing players. I hoped that we would be seeing a mentality change but so far it’s the same old, same old. Win a few games against crap opposition but then get humiliated away from home against a team with a plan.
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There are not many players who aren't under performing.
 
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