Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Styopa · Apr 15, 2024

TOLBINY said:
Incorrect - I posted on Saturday that I want him given time (2+ seasons unless we are at risk of relegation) becuase I am fed up of chop and chnge - but that I do not know if he has what it takes to become a winner in the Prem becuase he has never won anything at this level.

The thing is, he’s never had an opportunity in the Prem before. A lot of coaches begin their football careers as players at top teams in Europe and that gives them a launchpad to jobs in the top leagues. They’re often contenders for big jobs early in their careers by virtue of their standing in the game as players. Look at the trajectory of Pep and Arteta’s careers, for example. Ange’s profile is a bit different.

Having said that, I think we have only finished higher than fourth under once coach in the last thirty years. So Ange finishing fourth or fifth during his first season would already be at the higher echelons of what multiple coaches have achieved at the club.

whenstevewentup · Apr 15, 2024

I think the issue here is that 4th was very realistic over the last month or so and we’ve got a manager that would rather stick to his principles and accept poor performances than tweak and get us over the line and start again in the summer . At home I understand sticking to your principles but away from home you sometimes have to weather storms and keep a solid shape and win some battles , Fulham and Newcastle are prime examples of us watching a car crash happen and not bothering trying to avoid it . Those saying he needs to play out the games and see who he wants for next season , well if he doesn’t know the answers by now then it’s very worrying . That’s not to say we beat or draw with Fulham and Newcastle if we change our system but our away form has been pretty poor so trying something different would surely be the sensible approach .

Styopa · Apr 15, 2024

RuskyM said:
It's technically accurate if you include Gameweek 11 (the Chelsea game), because obviously we lost and the other two won. But equally, who cares? We're still 10 and 16 points clear of sides with much higher budgets.

We lost four out of five matches starting with that Chelsea match and only collected one point in that run. That’s where we lost most ground. I don’t think we have had a run as bad as that at any other point in the season. Some poor individual results, yes, but not losing four or five on the bounce.

In fact that run may have been the only time to date that we have lost back to back matches?

RuskyM · Apr 15, 2024

TOLBINY said:
Incorrect - I posted on Saturday that I want him given time (2+ seasons unless we are at risk of relegation) becuase I am fed up of chop and chnge - but that I do not know if he has what it takes to become a winner in the Prem becuase he has never won anything at this level.

But that's a paradox; no one's won anything at this level until they've won something at this level.

Look at the Bundesliga - Xabi Alonso's first real job versus Thomas Tuchel, who's won the CL. Simone Inzaghi's going to win the league in Italy whilst Allegri and Mourinho don't. Arteta should've won the league and Arsenal is his first coaching job. If experience was enough to win titles, Ange wouldn't be here in the first place, because Conte/Mourinho would've won it.

Metalhead · Apr 15, 2024

whenstevewentup said:
I think the issue here is that 4th was very realistic over the last month or so and we’ve got a manager that would rather stick to his principles and accept poor performances than tweak and get us over the line and start again in the summer . At home I understand sticking to your principles but away from home you sometimes have to weather storms and keep a solid shape and win some battles , Fulham and Newcastle are prime examples of us watching a car crash happen and not bothering trying to avoid it . Those saying he needs to play out the games and see who he wants for next season , well if he doesn’t know the answers by now then it’s very worrying . That’s not to say we beat or draw with Fulham and Newcastle if we change our system but our away form has been pretty poor so trying something different would surely be the sensible approach .

He's not accepting poor performances mate. That clearly isn't the case. What he's said is that it's a process and this won't be the last set back. He's obviously not going to accept it like it's ok.

Styopa · Apr 15, 2024

Yeah Ange doesn’t come across to me as the sort of guy who is willing to put up with poor performances. But maybe he doesn’t think slagging the players off in public is the right way to go about fixing things.

Yantino · Apr 15, 2024

To be clear, I love the bloke. I think he speaks so well, the progress since the end of last season is staggering and I'm not just talking about the football. You can really see us building something.

However. This insistence on not doing ANYTHING to nullify and contain the opposition other than having us work on our own game is naïve and won't cut it in this league. Might work in the J league and Scotland but not in the PL against the best teams in the country and Europe (next season). We are dominating possession in most games, yet we have hardly any shots on target at all. And that's not good and needs to change. If Ange insists on playing a high line all the time then we must do more to stop the opponents from exploiting the really obvious gaps.

Not doing so is killing us and it won't last long if he doesn't do something about it.

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 15, 2024

spurs9 said:
Was that LWOS again? Who ever it was is taking rubbish. We have 34 points since then, Man Utd have 32 and Chelsea 29.

Quite amazing that you can't trust literally anything they say.

Just wanted to listen to some spurs stuff while doing the washing up lol.

Guess it's Ali Gold or nothing.

Metalhead · Apr 15, 2024

Styopa said:
Yeah Ange doesn’t come across to me as the sort of guy who is willing to put up with poor performances. But maybe he doesn’t think slagging the players off in public is the right way to go about fixing things.

Exactomondo dude.

dontcallme · Apr 15, 2024

Styopa said:
Yeah Ange doesn’t come across to me as the sort of guy who is willing to put up with poor performances. But maybe he doesn’t think slagging the players off in public is the right way to go about fixing things.

Agree.

I think Mourinho and Conte criticising players publicly is a big part of the issues they had at the club.

Styopa · Apr 15, 2024

Yantino said:
However. This insistence on not doing ANYTHING to nullify and contain the opposition other than having us work on our own game is naïve and won't cut it in this league. Might work in the J league and Scotland but not in the PL against the best teams in the country and Europe (next season).

But relative to virtually every other team in the league outside of the top 3, it has worked.

We have conceded exactly the same number of goals as Villa.

We have conceded 3 fewer than Newcastle.

We have conceded 9 fewer than West Ham.

We have conceded 1 more than Man U.

We have conceded 3 fewer than Chelsea.

We have conceded 1 less than Brighton.

Yantino · Apr 15, 2024

dontcallme said:
Agree.

I think Mourinho and Conte criticising players publicly is a big part of the issues they had at the club.

Agree. But not sure why he hasn't dropped a couple of them. Biss and Madders to name two in particular. We have quality options but they are not being used.

Yantino · Apr 15, 2024

Styopa said:
But relative to virtually every other team in the league outside of the top 3, it has worked.

We have conceded exactly the same number of goals as Villa.

We have conceded 3 fewer than Newcastle.

We have conceded 9 fewer than West Ham.

We have conceded 1 more than Man U.

We have conceded 3 fewer than Chelsea.

We have conceded 1 less than Brighton.

I get that, but it's more than just stats and numbers mate. Its the manner in which we are conceding goals and points.

Styopa · Apr 15, 2024

Yantino said:
I get that, but it's more than just stats and numbers mate. It’s the manner in which we are conceding goals and points.

Agree, but I wouldn’t say number of goals conceded is just a “stat”, if we’re talking about being too open and conceding too many goals.

spurs mental · Apr 15, 2024

Sp3akerboxxx said:
Quite amazing that you can't trust literally anything they say.

Just wanted to listen to some spurs stuff while doing the washing up lol.

Guess it's Ali Gold or nothing.

LWOS love the negativity. They're Twitter timeline us always full of it, easiest way to generate clicks

spurs mental · Apr 15, 2024

Styopa said:
But relative to virtually every other team in the league outside of the top 3, it has worked.

We have conceded exactly the same number of goals as Villa.

We have conceded 3 fewer than Newcastle.

We have conceded 9 fewer than West Ham.

We have conceded 1 more than Man U.

We have conceded 3 fewer than Chelsea.

We have conceded 1 less than Brighton.

Thank God for Vicario being probably the best shot stopped in the league this season.

If we can tighten that back line up and allow less opportunities at him next season our GD should take a big jump along with the points tally.

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 15, 2024

spurs mental said:
LWOS love the negativity. They're Twittet timeline us always full of it, easiest way to generate clicks

Found it interesting as the bloke talking seemed super pro Ange.

Apparently it is technically correct if you include the Chelsea result, but was communicated so poorly you would have thought they meant after the Chelsea game.

I quite like Sim on wearetottenhamtv even if most of their content is click bait as well.

ethanedwards · Apr 15, 2024

greaves said:
High intensity/pressing will wear out players over a season, which is what happened with Poch. Even with just one game a week. Stating the obvious, but a higher quality squad is probably the answer. Ange will know this. I think this is the most likely reason for the success of our first ten matches and the mercurial form that’s followed. Poorer, less sharp decision making and a drop in resilience, especially with players out injured/suspended, seem likely to be related. ‘It’s the squad, stupid!’ Though I am not calling you stupid.

This is what happened to Sacchi's Milan team, who were arguably the greatest club team ever.
The players rebelled and Van Basten went to Berlusconi and said the high press, high intensity football was burning them out.

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 15, 2024

Listening to Ali Gold and he says that Ange has been asked about set pieces in pretty much every press conference recently, and Ange has said that he doesn't think they are a problem.

Gold doesn't think he truly believes that, but is more trying to make sure the players don't shit the bed every time the opposition gets a corner. He says that he thinks he remembers Conte doing something similar, possibly also in regards to set pieces.

TOLBINY · Apr 15, 2024

aussiespursguy said:
Ok. I'll play.
Had Fergie? What about Peps cone boy? Klopp went from Mainz to Dortmund. What about Ten Hags background? Pep took a while to get his head around the Prem. What about Tuchel who alot here wanted who followed Klopps footsteps at Mainz and Dortmund.
What exactly is your point?
Is it that we had both Jose and Conte? They are gone now! Move on lad.

Fergie won a Eurpoean Trophy with a Scottich club beating Real Madridi in the final.
Peps cone boy will have learnt an lot from Pep and is putitng it to some use down the road
Klopp won 2 Bundeliga titles ( for clarity I look at the Prem, Italy, Spain, Germany and France as being the top leagues)
Pep had a decent CV when he came to the Prem - all those you have named (except Fergie) are younger than Ange and already have a better CV (even Cone Boy has an FA Cup).

So I posed a question a couple of times, what is it in Ange's CV that leads people to believe he has what it takes to win trophies in the Prem? I am not saying I think he has or has not, I don't know if he has because he has not done it at this level, I am supporitng him becuase I am fed up of chop and change and I recognised post Poch that we need a squad rebuild under stable management.

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