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Fatigue

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,646
Ok, so poch is claiming 3 games in 6 days has been too much.

Personally, I believe he didn't rotate enough midweek but hindsight and all that....

Anyhow, does anyone know if during this period the players are still required to complete two sessions a day?

And does poch plan on keeping this up over the Xmas period?

I believe in two sessions a day is the way forward, especially if you are implementing high pressing. But surely, as the games come thick and fast you need to protect the players from fatigue otherwise we are going to see much more of today.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
It seemed for some of them it was a game too far. I suspect though that the effort/attitude in the Everton game will prove to be a flash in the pan, certainly for a few weeks at least until they come under pressure again and decide to pull their thumbs out. Hope I'm proved wrong about that, but I just don't see that being the norm.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
I found it interesting that for for the Chelsea game we had three days to recover playing against a team that had four, and ditto for the Palace game. They were our second and third games in 6 (SIX) days. I don't know that they should be used as excuses, I think plenty of other things were done wrong. But I do think it is lousy scheduling and, given the importance put on recovery time after games, I can see scope for saying it disadvantaged us. But Mourinho complains about fixtures being unfavourable, Beetroot Head used to complain about fixtures being unfavourable...we at THFC, club, head coach/manager/players/fans do not for some reason it would break an unwritten rule.
 

yiddo23

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2014
1,397
2,653
there is nothing wrong with the fixture list. rotate players, man the fook up and put in work, there are no excuses to that abject performance today. Manager and team alike failed today
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
there is nothing wrong with the fixture list. rotate players, man the fook up and put in work, there are no excuses to that abject performance today. Manager and team alike failed today

No-one, so far as I know, has said that the fixtures excuses today's performance, that players shouldn't be rotated, or that they shouldn't put the work in. None of that has anything to do with whether there are any issues with the fixture list - and please note the difference in terminology between issues with and something wrong with. There is an issue with the fixture list: it has been scientifically proven that the difference in recovery time, especially where short time-frames are involved, can seriously effect performance levels. Today, we were playing our third match in six days, for the second and third we got a day less recovery time than our opponents. If that had happened to United under Ferguson, or to Chelsea under Mourinho they would have made a biog issue of it. Why is it that just because we should have cope with it better that means you think there is no issue with it? In this and another post on today's game, I have listed a lot of things I thought were done wrong, or that I disagreed with, and stated in both of them that any comment on the fixture list shouldn't be used as an excuse. Why do you think anyone who is commenting on the fixture list is using it as an excuse even when they state explicitly that they aren't?
 

guy

SC Supporter
May 31, 2007
4,507
6,182
Well if you have 3 games in 6 days rotate the fucking team Poch! FFS he's got a huge squad to use, yet plays almost the same team in all 3 games.

Seriously would it have been so bad to give Stambouli a start in CM, and maybe Chadli who hasnt played for a couple of weeks?

Instead Kane plays the whole 90mins and looks leggy for the last 89 of them, ditto Mason and Bentaleb.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
Ok, so poch is claiming 3 games in 6 days has been too much.

Personally, I believe he didn't rotate enough midweek but hindsight and all that....

Anyhow, does anyone know if during this period the players are still required to complete two sessions a day?

And does poch plan on keeping this up over the Xmas period?

I believe in two sessions a day is the way forward, especially if you are implementing high pressing. But surely, as the games come thick and fast you need to protect the players from fatigue otherwise we are going to see much more of today.
If he is doing double sessions, he is an idiot, you don't do double sessions when you only have one day of hard training

This period of the year is about doing light training and harder training for the guys that didn't play

I said many times on here, Bielsa was his own worst enemy. The lack of rotation meant that the atletico bilbao team was knackered near the end of the season and also they meant they suffered after the europa league game. Unfortunately it resulted bilbao being seriously being fatigued in both of their competitions and Llorente was told his fitness was too bad to play for spain despite being their best striker over the year

That team that everyone wanted theirs to play like had this record after a midweek game
Played Won 7 Drawn 7 Lost 7

That record isn't too bad but they had a winter break but they had two periods in which they played a high number of games in a small amount of time. In march they played 9 games that month in a hectic schedule and won 1 league game, drew 1 and lost 4 league games whilst getting through to the next rounds.

The next time they played a hectic schedule this time it was the final weeks of la liga, copa del ray and Europa league.
They won 0 games and drew 1 and lost 4 games as well

I saw alot of people on here ever since say Athletic bilbao are proof of La Liga being a strong league as they beat teams like united and yet could only finish 10th in la liga. The truth was that the players were far too fatigued to handle 3 competitions and just prioritised Europa League before it bit them in the arse

I mentioning this because Poch's biggest test will be this month and handling these fixtures, he has no winter break like in spain, he has to play throughout christmas, he has the carling cup and europa league to juggle and southampton's record under pochettino was poor

Last season between December 1st and January 1st, this was his record:
Won 1 Drew 2 Lost 5

Now some people on here say he didn't have big squad at southampton so he couldn't rotate, well he does with us and they are all playing as bad as each other, you would struggle to notice the difference bar 3 or 4 players tbh
 

dricha1

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2005
1,311
2,579
The problem is Poch only has 11 or 12 players in the squad that have bought-in to his philosophy. The others haven't and he doesn't trust them enough to rotate. Hopefully January allows him to bring in two or three if his own players and he'll have the scope to rotate.
 
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Geyzer Soze

Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd
Aug 16, 2010
26,056
63,361
Stick your fatigued right up your Jacksie along with the pitch being too small. We've got one of the largest squads in the league
 

HotspurFC1950

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2011
4,223
2,623
Non league teams play 3 times per week and many of those guys work as well and they travel long distances in cars and buses.
 

Teddy Klinsmann

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2008
7,343
18,291
Dread to think how tired are poor little overpaid average stars will be when we have a full sized pitch to play on...
 

gerishep

Connected to the Spurs.
Aug 2, 2004
1,159
1,955
How can we get so tired running around a smaller pitch. Smaller pitch was of course the previous excuse.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,337
329,027
The problem is Poch only has 11 or 12 players in the squad that have bought-in to his philosophy. The others haven't and he doesn't trust them enough to rotate. Hopefully January allows him to bring in two or three if his own players and he'll have the scope to rotate.
There are a few more than that, but he doesn't have close to the full squad to pick from which is an issue. Adegate and injuries to the likes of Walker and Rose have made rotation difficult in certain area's. That said we still have a plethora of CM's and this should have been used to our advantage over the last week or so. Mason and Nabil should not have played as much of the last four games as they have. How Stambouli is getting no game time at all is beyond me.
 

jimmy-jojo

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2004
1,630
1,364
Stick your fatigued right up your Jacksie along with the pitch being too small. We've got one of the largest squads in the league

I'm pretty sure we have same number of players in our squad as the rest of the league. 25 man squad for everyone, right?
 

poc

Well-Known Member
Aug 6, 2004
3,235
3,652
Three games in a week those poor poor things :-(.

For players who Lloris apart have only played around half our games.

Honestly I am not saying at elite level it can be tough I'm sure but at this stage in the season with all other teams doing the same I find it just a bollocks excuse.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,646
There are a few more than that, but he doesn't have close to the full squad to pick from which is an issue. Adegate and injuries to the likes of Walker and Rose have made rotation difficult in certain area's. That said we still have a plethora of CM's and this should have been used to our advantage over the last week or so. Mason and Nabil should not have played as much of the last four games as they have. How Stambouli is getting no game time at all is beyond me.

Yeah this is bizarre, why bring him in if we are simply not going to use him. From what I have seen and heard from Stambouli is that they guy has the right attitude, surely swapping him for mason midweek would have been ideal right?

Poch is making some decisions that are concerning me a little to be honest. Maybe we wil see towards the end of the seassn why he has done these things, but certainly isn't making it easy right now.
 
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