Furloughing staff

[spursfan77]

Tottenham last year according to accounts paid 18m in tax and 21m in social security costs, players and staff also paid tax and don't forget about indirect tax coming from a lot of another source related to club. Is that really immoral? According to THST report, club are using government furlough for 220 people(~550k per month). Wouldn't be surprised if that's worth less for government than sharing our stadium for NHS

I wonder how much cash the club have saved the nhs by letting them have the stadium for the maternity ward rather than them having to rent a property somewhere. Probably a few hundred grand, maybe the same amount as the furlough was.

 

[Lighty64]

Lighty, why would a poster on here accept the shame for the decision of the club?

it won't be the shame of the club if they are forced to do it. the idea to furlough is to PROTECT STAFF, calling that off meaning that the club are now paying 500+ staff the full 100% when no one knows how long this will last for without any income and a 14m per month wage bill is a lot of money

 

[RikkiRocket]

Phew. Danny located his conscience. Must have been behind the bags of money at Levy towers.

 

[spursfan77]

 

[Metalhead]

it won't be the shame of the club if they are forced to do it. the idea to furlough is to PROTECT STAFF, calling that off meaning that the club are now paying 500+ staff the full 100% when no one knows how long this will last for without any income and a 14m per month wage bill is a lot of money

But it's the club's decision and a fan expressing an opinion on the direction of the club would never force the hand of Daniel Levy. Daniel Levy would only decide to do something because to do otherwise might have a long term detrimental effect on the club. Bad publicity, as he might see it, could have an effect on the club which would also have a potentially longer lasting economic impact.

 

[Trotter]

But it's the club's decision and a fan expressing an opinion on the direction of the club would never force the hand of Daniel Levy. Daniel Levy would only decide to do something because to do otherwise might have a long term detrimental effect on the club. Bad publicity, as he might see it, could have an effect on the club which would also have a potentially longer lasting economic impact.

Don;t
The BSoDL are having a bad enough day as it is.

Having spent few days defending the indefensible, they now have to either say Levy is not the good businessman they thought he was, and he is wrong to change his ways, or have to retract everything they have said over last few days.
Either is unpallatable.

 

[nailsy]

it won't be the shame of the club if they are forced to do it. the idea to furlough is to PROTECT STAFF, calling that off meaning that the club are now paying 500+ staff the full 100% when no one knows how long this will last for without any income and a 14m per month wage bill is a lot of money

This probably means that the players have agreed a wage cut that will cover the extra that we're paying out now.

 

[brasil_spur]

let's hope you accept the shame if 4 months down the line redundancies are made because they didn't look after the club. if the players have forced this lets hope they accept cuts to protect the club. deferrals won't help if this goes on for another 6 months

In theory it shouldn't go on for another 6 months, and if it does then there will be a LOT of businesses going under and a record amount of unemployment happening in all areas.

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

I wonder how much cash the club have saved the nhs by letting them have the stadium for the maternity ward rather than them having to rent a property somewhere. Probably a few hundred grand, maybe the same amount as the furlough was.

I don't understand your point here. The stadium would have been empty anyway. The gesture was motivated by a sense of public duty and money should have nothing to do with it.

 

[Lighty64]

But it's the club's decision and a fan expressing an opinion on the direction of the club would never force the hand of Daniel Levy. Daniel Levy would only decide to do something because to do otherwise might have a long term detrimental effect on the club. Bad publicity, as he might see it, could have an effect on the club which would also have a potentially longer lasting economic impact.

the person I quoted said this

Finally, shame on all of you who blindly defended Levy's initial decision. I'm glad that in this case, pressure from the press and our own fans helped to produced the right decision in the end.

so that's why I replied with what I did

 

[Lighty64]

In theory it shouldn't go on for another 6 months, and if it does then there will be a LOT of businesses going under and a record amount of unemployment happening in all areas.

haven't China not long come out of lockdown and another case has happened? until there's a vaccine for this that is affordable to everybody which is a lot of vaccines and in some cases people will think Nah not paying for it due to cost and then it can start again

 

[Chirpystheman]

The disagree rating was a bit harsh I must admit as I don't disagree with the majority of your post. I'll remove the disagree. I did however take exception to this bit of your post:



I run a small business employing 12 people. I've put them on the furlough scheme where the government pay up to 80% of their wage and I've decided to make up the other 20%, as I value their contribution to the company. In doing so, I've actually not drawn my own wage at all for March and probably won't do for April either. I'm not wealthy, I don't have piles of savings lying around - I have 2 mortgages to pay and lots of bills etc. However I recognise that without my staff there is no company. If the people in the company suffers, I will too. Now admittedly I won't be able to subsidise my emplyoee's wages indefinitely. If this financial crisis resulting from Covid-19 continues for several months then obviously I'll find it difficult to continue but for the time being I feel it's right that I help my staff out.

I don't want any sympathy and nor do I want any plaudits. I admit that the circumstances of my business are different to others, including Spurs, but please forgive me for not feeling sorry for the likes of Joe Lewis. "The super rich are likely to lose a lot more of their earned wealth than most of us." Well boo-hoo. Maybe if they hadn't hoarded their wealth in off-shore tax havens for the last 20 years the global economy would be better equipped to withstand systemic shocks. Perhaps when this crisis has subsided we ought as a society to re-evaluate what's important in life. Racking up profits for the sake of it, hoarding wealth and sailing around the world on a super yacht whilst paying no UK tax and expecting your employees to carry on as before generating wealth for you and not sharing that wealth is morally repugnant IMO. That's capitalism eh? Well, maybe it's time capitalism evolved into a system that didn't shaft people when they're trying to do the right thing.

I agree with a lot of that and agreed not right that the rich try to avoid paying tax as much as they possibly can. However just because they can afford to lose something doesnt mean you cant have sympathy for them. Its very narrow minded and stinks of jealousy and envy if just because someone has more than others then they deserve to be treated differently. If i saw a someone crash a ferrari i would have probably more sympathy for them than someone who crashed a ford fiesta popular. Its not easy for any business and im glad there are people like you who are prepared to do the right thing. If you didnt top up the wage i wouldn't judge you or think you are the scum of the earth. My comment about wage cut was a general one as will always be some that happy to chip in for the less fortunate. However loads wouldnt. Anyways Levy has reversed the decision so we can stop debating this whole issue. I hope your business survives this and you arent too out of pocket when this situation is finally over.

 

[Metalhead]

the person I quoted said this



so that's why I replied with what I did

In that context, I get your response.

 

[wrd]

I agree with a lot of that and agreed not right that the rich try to avoid paying tax as much as they possibly can. However just because they can afford to lose something doesnt mean you cant have sympathy for them. Its very narrow minded and stinks of jealousy and envy if just because someone has more than others then they deserve to be treated differently. If i saw a someone crash a ferrari i would have probably more sympathy for them than someone who crashed a ford fiesta popular. Its not easy for any business and im glad there are people like you who are prepared to do the right thing. If you didnt top up the wage i wouldn't judge you or think you are the scum of the earth. My comment about wage cut was a general one as will always be some that happy to chip in for the less fortunate. However loads wouldnt. Anyways Levy has reversed the decision so we can stop debating this whole issue. I hope your business survives this and you arent too out of pocket when this situation is finally over.

Ridiculous analogy.

 

[Lighty64]

In that context, I get your response.

the real fun will be when the transfer window opens when all the Levy/ENIC out mob moan that we don't strengthen

I would have been happy if they had changed to just topping up the furlough staffs 20%, and just hope this doesn't stretch on. can't remember where I saw it but there was a mention of April deadline, was skim reading an article on/via twitter. not sure if it means not joining the furlough by the end of April it can't be joined after. if it does have to be joined before the end of the month and this goes on 3-4 months longer there will be a lot of people only receiving £94 pw on Universal Credits and will be a lot worse off

 

[Metalhead]

the real fun will be when the transfer window opens when all the Levy/ENIC out mob moan that we don't strengthen

I would have been happy if they had changed to just topping up the furlough staffs 20%, and just hope this doesn't stretch on. can't remember where I saw it but there was a mention of April deadline, was skim reading an article on/via twitter. not sure if it means not joining the furlough by the end of April it can't be joined after. if it does have to be joined before the end of the month and this goes on 3-4 months longer there will be a lot of people only receiving £94 pw on Universal Credits and will be a lot worse off

Being honest, I'd be well happy to see no mentions of Levy/ENIC out or BSoDL. The truth is that they neither deserve unreserved support nor constant criticism. I can't justify every decision that they make but neither would I knee-jerk criticism at every opportunity.

 

[Lighty64]

Don;t
The BSoDL are having a bad enough day as it is.

Having spent few days defending the indefensible, they now have to either say Levy is not the good businessman they thought he was, and he is wrong to change his ways, or have to retract everything they have said over last few days.
Either is unpallatable.

1, the person you quoted didn't properly read the person I quoted so has since understood my reply

2, if it's true that your non 1st team footballer was right (not you) because he only appeared the last day or 2, it might actually be the reason why Levy has done what he did, but it definitely won't be because it wasn't defensible. there is a chance that if this season is voided and the club loses silly money and the virus goes on longer those staff will wish they were on 80%

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

the real fun will be when the transfer window opens when all the Levy/ENIC out mob moan that we don't strengthen

I would have been happy if they had changed to just topping up the furlough staffs 20%, and just hope this doesn't stretch on. can't remember where I saw it but there was a mention of April deadline, was skim reading an article on/via twitter. not sure if it means not joining the furlough by the end of April it can't be joined after. if it does have to be joined before the end of the month and this goes on 3-4 months longer there will be a lot of people only receiving £94 pw on Universal Credits and will be a lot worse off

I guarantee you every single person who is disgusted by us using the furlough scheme would not give a shit about missing a transfer target. I'd say they'd be more disgusted if a transfer only got over the line because of state funding.

The fact the BSoDL keep trotting this line out suggests they would be fully behind using government money to buy players which makes me even happier to be on the other side.

 

[wrd]

let's hope you accept the shame if 4 months down the line redundancies are made because they didn't look after the club. if the players have forced this lets hope they accept cuts to protect the club. deferrals won't help if this goes on for another 6 months

1, the person you quoted didn't properly read the person I quoted so has since understood my reply

2, if it's true that your non 1st team footballer was right (not you) because he only appeared the last day or 2, it might actually be the reason why Levy has done what he did, but it definitely won't be because it wasn't defensible. there is a chance that if this season is voided and the club loses silly money and the virus goes on longer those staff will wish they were on 80%

Well fingers crossed those people lose their jobs so you get to finally win this debate on an internet forum.

And yes I'm fully aware you don't want that to happen but you seem so determined not to back down that you were in the right on this matter that the tone you're taking leaves a horrible taste.

 

[Lighty64]

I guarantee you every single person who is disgusted by us using the furlough scheme would not give a shit about missing a transfer target. I'd say they'd be more disgusted if a transfer only got over the line because of state funding.

The fact the BSoDL keep trotting this line out suggests they would be fully behind using government money to buy players which makes me even happier to be on the other side.

no I didn't expect a single transfer with everything going on, and if furloughing 220 people meant in 6 months time if we are lucky to be playing again they still had jobs I will be very happy. I don't give 2 hoots about new players if I believe there is a reason we can't buy, just like me not being angry the previous 10 years because I knew building a stadium would stop us spending silly which you need to do to be able to compete at the very top

90% of those disgruntled fans are ENIC out, and jump on anything negative, and if this season is voided and staff are let go they will still moan. then they will moan even more if Levy puts the season ticket prices up another couple of % for the 21/22 season. they will moan until ENIC are gone, and will continue to moan after because I very much doubt anyone out there will have the 2b to buy us, and another billion to try and catch up