Is there a way back this time?

[walworthyid]

Let's even allow ourselves to imagine that Levy gets Mourinho what he wants and we manage to win something. Anything. Is that going to lead to sustained success? No. Because Mourinho's playing style is not one that another manager will adopt. He is the only one playing that way. Therefore we would need another rebuild.

If Poch had been backed, we would have won the league, possibly more than once and the champions league. He knew that winning cup competitions wasnt the way to go and you had people on here criticising him for it. We were on the cusp of greatness and that period of time will be remembered as a good one regardless of the fact that we didn't win anything. The reason for that was not just the great results we achieved, but also the way that we achieved them. We went to every ground and dominated teams, bullied them, Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Utd, Pool, juventus, Barcelona. We took on all comers and played without fear. It was glorious, it was spurs. We were proud to be spurs fans again.

I just cannot take this frightened, passive football that Jose is forcing our team to play and I dont care what we win.

He has got to go so that we can save the soul of our club. He is a poison.

I will not be watching the NLD tomorrow, or any other game that we play, not just because of the fear of being beaten, but because of the fact that I dont want us to win. I want us to lose, and lose heavily, because it will bring us one game closer to Jose being sacked. I know that my opinion wont be popular, and I understand that it is sacrilege to want us to lose to the scum, but having our identity and pride back in the long term means far more to me than a victory over a shit Arsenal team does in the short term. And let's face it, we will hardly go out there and take them on and win on the front foot, we will sit back, let them have the ball and hope for some bit of luck or individual skill to nick us a goal. It will mean nothing.

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

What worries me quite a lot, and what is different from all these other times, is the crippling debt we have acquired with the new stadium. Much seems to be predicated upon our qualifying regularly for the CL and if this doesn't happen, which it likely won't, are we going to be able to both service the debt and have enough to left to invest in the squad? There's a risk of getting caught in a bit of a vicious circle with growing debt meaning we can't invest and this leading to further reduced performance and declining income. I'm no expert though and I'm sure cleverer people than me on here will no doubt assure me that everything will be tickety boo.

 

[Japhet]

Let's even allow ourselves to imagine that Levy gets Mourinho what he wants and we manage to win something. Anything. Is that going to lead to sustained success? No. Because Mourinho's playing style is not one that another manager will adopt. He is the only one playing that way. Therefore we would need another rebuild.

If Poch had been backed, we would have won the league, possibly more than once and the champions league. He knew that winning cup competitions wasnt the way to go and you had people on here criticising him for it. We were on the cusp of greatness and that period of time will be remembered as a good one regardless of the fact that we didn't win anything. The reason for that was not just the great results we achieved, but also the way that we achieved them. We went to every ground and dominated teams, bullied them, Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Utd, Pool, juventus, Barcelona. We took on all comers and played without fear. It was glorious, it was spurs. We were proud to be spurs fans again.

I just cannot take this frightened, passive football that Jose is forcing our team to play and I dont care what we win.

He has got to go so that we can save the soul of our club. He is a poison.

I will not be watching the NLD tomorrow, or any other game that we play, not just because of the fear of being beaten, but because of the fact that I dont want us to win. I want us to lose, and lose heavily, because it will bring us one game closer to Jose being sacked. I know that my opinion wont be popular, and I understand that it is sacrilege to want us to lose to the scum, but having our identity and pride back in the long term means far more to me than a victory over a shit Arsenal team does in the short term. And let's face it, we will hardly go out there and take them on and win on the front foot, we will sit back, let them have the ball and hope for some bit of luck or individual skill to nick us a goal. It will mean nothing.

Totally agree with the first bit but I'd never want us to lose - particularly not to Woolwich. I hope there are some productivity clauses in Mourinho's contract that offer us a way out of this dire situation though. I can't be arsed to watch the NLD for the first time in decades.

 

[walworthyid]

Totally agree with the first bit but I'd never want us to lose - particularly not to Woolwich. I hope there are some productivity clauses in Mourinho's contract that offer us a way out of this dire situation though. I can't be arsed to watch the NLD for the first time in decades.

I know what you mean. I'm a bit of an all or nothing kind of person. I cant do half-measures and I also tend to think in the longer term. If we somehow manage to beat the scum it will mean nothing and give jose some breathing space. If we lose heavily it will put him, and Levy, under pressure and hopefully hasten his departure.

He absolutely has got to go and I'm prepared to take the pain of defeat to the scum in order to bring that about.

 

[Japhet]

I know what you mean. I'm a bit of an all or nothing kind of person. I cant do half-measures and I also tend to think in the longer term. If we somehow manage to beat the scum it will mean nothing and give jose some breathing space. If we lose heavily it will put him, and Levy, under pressure and hopefully hasten his departure.

He absolutely has got to go and I'm prepared to take the pain of defeat to the scum in order to bring that about.

Unfortunately the bed is made and I think we'll have to lie in it for a good while yet. Levy won't face up to a Mourinho sized compensation packet having just shelled out for Poch & Co. Everything I thought wrong with hiring Mourinho is coming to fruition though with alarming speed. God only knows what we'll end up with after the transfer window - hopefully nothing like Quaresma or Sanchez and hopefully he doesn't piss off to many of our existing players for a while yet. Who knows?

 

[RickyVilla]

Of course there is. The 90’s are proof that we can be shite for most of a decade and come back. Just give it until 2030 and we’ll be good Bruv. Levy at the helm signing players from Sunday league. Legend

 

[lincspurs]

If Poch had been backed, we would have won the league, possibly more than once and the champions league. He knew that winning cup competitions wasnt the way to go and you had people on here criticising him for it. We were on the cusp of greatness and that period of time will be remembered as a good one regardless of the fact that we didn't win anything. The reason for that was not just the great results we achieved, but also the way that we achieved them. We went to every ground and dominated teams, bullied them, Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Utd, Pool, juventus, Barcelona. We took on all comers and played without fear. It was glorious, it was spurs. We were proud to be spurs fans.

Yes it was a good time but not sure about the winning the league etc bit. There is a very good reason we didn’t win anything, we weren’t good enough, especially mentally when it really mattered.
And then suddenly we stopped playing that way & the decline started, why, I have no idea. The football we were playing at the end of Poch’s reign was no better than what we’re getting now, (the defending was probably worse).

 

[JimmyG2]

I want us to be winning things, otherwise whats the point?

Winning games and trophies is one way certainly
but entertaining the fans worldwide is another.
Watching and identifying with players we have developed is another.
The pursuit of trophies as the be all and end all is barren and doomed to disappointment much of the time
Success is a by-product of playing good football consistently over a period not an end in itself.

I would like to point out at this juncture that Liverpool, current Premiership and European Champions
are also top of the Fair play League. Arsenal and ourselves are bottom.
So success can be achieved. the 'right' way which is another point.

 

[Japhet]

Yes it was a good time but not sure about the winning the league etc bit. There is a very good reason we didn’t win anything, we weren’t good enough, especially mentally when it really mattered.
And then suddenly we stopped playing that way & the decline started, why, I have no idea. The football we were playing at the end of Poch’s reign was no better than what we’re getting now, (the defending was probably worse).

I think we stopped playing that way because we lacked depth in the squad and all of the key players got run into the ground as a result. The physical demands of Poch's style became too much but also other teams adopted it and we weren't very good at coping with a high press when other teams applied it to us.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Winning games and trophies is one way certainly
but entertaining the fans worldwide is another.
Watching and identifying with players we have developed is another.
The pursuit of trophies as the be all and end all is barren and doomed to disappointment much of the time
Success is a by-product of playing good football consistently over a period not an end in itself.

I would like to point out at this juncture that Liverpool, current Premiership and European Champions
are also top of the Fair play League. Arsenal and ourselves are bottom.
So success can be achieved. the 'right' way which is another point.

We played entertaining football - Spurs earned some plaudits, even some back handed complements. It hasn't changed the perception of us though. Doesn't matter - until we start winning things we're not on the same level as those that do.

If our best players want to be seen as great, what is it that they have to do?

If Poch wants to be seen as a great manager, what is it he has to do?

Norwich have played entertaining football this season at times (against us, right?) They're going down. Leicester - they might not even end up with the prize of Champions League football. I wouldn't mind but quite honestly only the top two teams in the league have really played entertaining football, for long periods this season - even then they've had to grind out results - they're both winners though.

In the last 5 years we've been to two cup finals and two semi finals - we played a mixture of great and lucky football to make it to those positions and then failed when it came to the crunch. No one remembers the losers.

 

[rossdapep]

Let's even allow ourselves to imagine that Levy gets Mourinho what he wants and we manage to win something. Anything. Is that going to lead to sustained success? No. Because Mourinho's playing style is not one that another manager will adopt. He is the only one playing that way. Therefore we would need another rebuild.

If Poch had been backed, we would have won the league, possibly more than once and the champions league. He knew that winning cup competitions wasnt the way to go and you had people on here criticising him for it. We were on the cusp of greatness and that period of time will be remembered as a good one regardless of the fact that we didn't win anything. The reason for that was not just the great results we achieved, but also the way that we achieved them. We went to every ground and dominated teams, bullied them, Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Utd, Pool, juventus, Barcelona. We took on all comers and played without fear. It was glorious, it was spurs. We were proud to be spurs fans again.

I just cannot take this frightened, passive football that Jose is forcing our team to play and I dont care what we win.

He has got to go so that we can save the soul of our club. He is a poison.

I will not be watching the NLD tomorrow, or any other game that we play, not just because of the fear of being beaten, but because of the fact that I dont want us to win. I want us to lose, and lose heavily, because it will bring us one game closer to Jose being sacked. I know that my opinion wont be popular, and I understand that it is sacrilege to want us to lose to the scum, but having our identity and pride back in the long term means far more to me than a victory over a shit Arsenal team does in the short term. And let's face it, we will hardly go out there and take them on and win on the front foot, we will sit back, let them have the ball and hope for some bit of luck or individual skill to nick us a goal. It will mean nothing.

Well I absolutely don't want us to lose to them under any circumstances. Jose won't be kept on or fired off the back of one result so let's not be too silly.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with your opinion about this club not having sustained success after he's gone.

Imagine he was to win say, The Europa League, and the following season wasn't so great. What's the scenario? Well the club have FINALLY got that hoodoo off their back and can finally feel like winners, that attitude counts for something. Secondly, the rebuild won't take long at all and the club should be in a very healthy situation to win more.

These are Jose's last three clubs and how they did after he'd gone.

United - looking much better 18 months on
Chelsea - won the PL a year later, Europa league 3 years later
Madrid - won CL season after and including for 4 out of 5 next seasons

So I think its am exaggeration to suggest he leaves his clubs in a mess. Yes, players turn on him and the mood sours but more often than not a new coach has a very good group of players to work with who are winners and just need positivity and new direction.

Its obvious but winning something is the most important thing this club needs to do In order to become a more succesful one. If Jose wins something but it becomes toxic afterwards it'll be worth it IMO because the years following should get even better.

 

[emiley heskey]

Let's even allow ourselves to imagine that Levy gets Mourinho what he wants and we manage to win something. Anything. Is that going to lead to sustained success? No. Because Mourinho's playing style is not one that another manager will adopt. He is the only one playing that way. Therefore we would need another rebuild.

If Poch had been backed, we would have won the league, possibly more than once and the champions league. He knew that winning cup competitions wasnt the way to go and you had people on here criticising him for it. We were on the cusp of greatness and that period of time will be remembered as a good one regardless of the fact that we didn't win anything. The reason for that was not just the great results we achieved, but also the way that we achieved them. We went to every ground and dominated teams, bullied them, Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Utd, Pool, juventus, Barcelona. We took on all comers and played without fear. It was glorious, it was spurs. We were proud to be spurs fans again.

I just cannot take this frightened, passive football that Jose is forcing our team to play and I dont care what we win.

He has got to go so that we can save the soul of our club. He is a poison.

I will not be watching the NLD tomorrow, or any other game that we play, not just because of the fear of being beaten, but because of the fact that I dont want us to win. I want us to lose, and lose heavily, because it will bring us one game closer to Jose being sacked. I know that my opinion wont be popular, and I understand that it is sacrilege to want us to lose to the scum, but having our identity and pride back in the long term means far more to me than a victory over a shit Arsenal team does in the short term. And let's face it, we will hardly go out there and take them on and win on the front foot, we will sit back, let them have the ball and hope for some bit of luck or individual skill to nick us a goal. It will mean nothing.

Did poch leave the club in better condition?

 

[walworthyid]

Well I absolutely don't want us to lose to them under any circumstances. Jose won't be kept on or fired off the back of one result so let's not be too silly.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with your opinion about this club not having sustained success after he's gone.

Imagine he was to win say, The Europa League, and the following season wasn't so great. What's the scenario? Well the club have FINALLY got that hoodoo off their back and can finally feel like winners, that attitude counts for something. Secondly, the rebuild won't take long at all and the club should be in a very healthy situation to win more.

These are Jose's last three clubs and how they did after he'd gone.

United - looking much better 18 months on
Chelsea - won the PL a year later, Europa league 3 years later
Madrid - won CL season after and including for 4 out of 5 next seasons

So I think its am exaggeration to suggest he leaves his clubs in a mess. Yes, players turn on him and the mood sours but more often than not a new coach has a very good group of players to work with who are winners and just need positivity and new direction.

Its obvious but winning something is the most important thing this club needs to do In order to become a more succesful one. If Jose wins something but it becomes toxic afterwards it'll be worth it IMO because the years following should get even better.

Well, clearly I'm not saying that he will be sacked on the back of one game, that would be silly!

It is a nail in the coffin. Any games we win take a nail out of the coffin.

And I dont agree with your assessment of clubs post-Jose. Utd have spent money, Chelsea spent money. It has nothing to do with jose.

He is anti-football. I'll take glorious failure over that any day of the week.

 

[walworthyid]

Did poch leave the club in better condition?

Yes. Absolutely. 5 years we will never forget. If he had been backed we would be pushing on. It was not his fault that we stagnated and then began to decline.

 

[teok]

Spurs can't afford to just write off players they have a huge amount of money invested in on a whim. Utd/madrid/chelsea can. They are the richest clubs on the planet.

I'm also amazed that people think that is just a given that mourniho is going to win things no matter what circumstances he is in.

 

[emiley heskey]

Yes. Absolutely. 5 years we will never forget. If he had been backed we would be pushing on. It was not his fault that we stagnated and then began to decline.

How did poch leave the club in better condition? We were 6th when he came ... He left the club when we were 14th and most of the players are uninterested

 

[Metalhead]

Let's even allow ourselves to imagine that Levy gets Mourinho what he wants and we manage to win something. Anything. Is that going to lead to sustained success? No. Because Mourinho's playing style is not one that another manager will adopt. He is the only one playing that way. Therefore we would need another rebuild.

If Poch had been backed, we would have won the league, possibly more than once and the champions league. He knew that winning cup competitions wasnt the way to go and you had people on here criticising him for it. We were on the cusp of greatness and that period of time will be remembered as a good one regardless of the fact that we didn't win anything. The reason for that was not just the great results we achieved, but also the way that we achieved them. We went to every ground and dominated teams, bullied them, Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Utd, Pool, juventus, Barcelona. We took on all comers and played without fear. It was glorious, it was spurs. We were proud to be spurs fans again.

I just cannot take this frightened, passive football that Jose is forcing our team to play and I dont care what we win.

He has got to go so that we can save the soul of our club. He is a poison.

I will not be watching the NLD tomorrow, or any other game that we play, not just because of the fear of being beaten, but because of the fact that I dont want us to win. I want us to lose, and lose heavily, because it will bring us one game closer to Jose being sacked. I know that my opinion wont be popular, and I understand that it is sacrilege to want us to lose to the scum, but having our identity and pride back in the long term means far more to me than a victory over a shit Arsenal team does in the short term. And let's face it, we will hardly go out there and take them on and win on the front foot, we will sit back, let them have the ball and hope for some bit of luck or individual skill to nick us a goal. It will mean nothing.

That’s where opinion comes in. People can respect your opinion even though they don’t agree with it. Everyone wants the best for the club even if we all sometimes/often disagree with the way of doing things.

 

[emiley heskey]

Well, clearly I'm not saying that he will be sacked on the back of one game, that would be silly!

It is a nail in the coffin. Any games we win take a nail out of the coffin.

And I dont agree with your assessment of clubs post-Jose. Utd have spent money, Chelsea spent money. It has nothing to do with jose.

He is anti-football. I'll take glorious failure over that any day of the week.

If utd, chelsea, real madrid post jose has nothing to do with jose, thn how come post Pochetinno spurs is in better condition then pre Pochetinno?

Chelsea signed Alonso, kante and david luiz after Mourinho left ... All the players who played under Mourinho were also there ...

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

One thing I can never stand is fans actively wanting us to lose just to spite the manager. We saw it towards the end of Poch's tenure and the same things are being said now that Mourinho is at the helm. There is no justification for that, ever. It's a losers mentality and shows an entitlement that we genuinely haven't earned yet.

Whose to say we would've won things under Poch had he been backed? I don't think its as guaranteed as most of you think. Just like its not guaranteed that we win trophies under Jose. Stop using these as yard sticks. It just means a higher probability of both scenarios happening.

While JM is our manager we need to support him. If the results don't come our way and he gets the sack then so be it. But I cannot agree with anyone who is happy to see us lose just to hasten his exit. That's part of the rot we are experiencing as a club. The problems don't only lie with the team, staff and board it lies with the toxic fans too.

 

[Japhet]

How did poch leave the club in better condition? We were 6th when he came ... He left the club when we were 14th and most of the players are uninterested

So the interim counts for nothing? Where were Arsenal in the table when Wenger left them, or Leicester when they binned Ranieri? You couldn't say they didn't improve those clubs.