Jordy Clasie

[DaSpurs]

If we want to sell Holtby, using that money to go after Clasie makes a lot of sense to me.

We could very well indeed acquire Clasie for probably even less than what we could sell Holtby for, but that's before the WC in which Clasie looks to be a prominent inclusion in the Dutch plans. If Feyenoord are smart, they'll hold out on anyone who expresses interest until after the tourney.

Still would prefer those funds be generated by Paulinho, who I feel is less contributory and suited to the classical No 8 slot which I expect de Boer to aggressively address, doesn't provide the versatility Holtby does by playing in the CAM slot, and could be sold for quite a bit more to address other areas of need.

 

[spurs9]

We could very well indeed acquire Clasie for probably even less than what we could sell Holtby for, but that's before the WC in which Clasie looks to be a prominent inclusion in the Dutch plans. If Feyenoord are smart, they'll hold out on anyone who expresses interest until after the tourney.

Still would prefer those funds be generated by Paulinho, who I feel is less contributory and suited to the classical No 8 slot which I expect de Boer to aggressively address, doesn't provide the versatility Holtby does by playing in the CAM slot, and could be sold for quite a bit more to address other areas of need.

If we do get De Boer I can him playing Paulinho in the role De Jong & Klaassen play for Ajax.

In fact, if you compare his usual line up (when Eriksen was there and this season) we have the perfect midfield 3 for this, except for Dembele.

Ajax: Eriksen/Serero Poulsen/Blind De Jong/Klaassen

Tottenham: Eriksen/Holtby Sandro/Capoue Paulinho/Sigg

 

[DaSpurs]

If we do get De Boer I can him playing Paulinho in the role De Jong & Klaassen play for Ajax.

In fact, if you compare his usual line up (when Eriksen was there and this season) we have the perfect midfield 3 for this, except for Dembele.

Ajax: Eriksen/Serero Poulsen/Blind De Jong/Klaassen

Tottenham: Eriksen/Holtby Sandro/Capoue Paulinho/Sigg

People have often been making the comparisons between our own and Ajax' midfield since the FdB connection, and for fair reason.

However, it has to be noted that Ajax can play a more advanced and less defensive-harnessed setup because they feature more dynamic, flowing center mids behind a forward line that is capable of maintaining efficient possession, and in a league with defending that doesn't even approach the quality of that in the Prem. We don't currently have a dynamic option in the middle to play behind Eriksen (unless Holtby can be adequately molded to this role), and we can't afford to play so many players as high on the pitch (not formation-wise, but real estate-wise) in this league. So it will be very interesting to see how de Boer makes the classical Dutch three-man central midfield compatible with the demands of the Prem, but I doubt it will resemble a close replica given so many different technicalities.

 

[spurs9]

People have often been making the comparisons between our own and Ajax' midfield since the FdB connection, and for fair reason.

However, it has to be noted that Ajax can play a more advanced and less defensive-harnessed setup because they feature more dynamic, flowing center mids behind a forward line that is capable of maintaining efficient possession, and in a league with defending that doesn't even approach the quality of that in the Prem. We don't currently have a dynamic option in the middle to play behind Eriksen (unless Holtby can be adequately molded to this role), and we can't afford to play so many players as high on the pitch (not formation-wise, but real estate-wise) in this league. So it will be very interesting to see how de Boer makes the classical Dutch three-man central midfield compatible with the demands of the Prem, but I doubt it will resemble a close replica given so many different technicalities.

I think De Boer's Ajax tactics can easily be modified for this league. I also think that the midfield I wrote above is just as dynamic as Ajax's and more defensive. Also, I think a forward 3 that included 3 of Chadli, Lamela Ade, Soldado and Eriksen is just as, if not more capable, of maintaining possession than a forward 3 that included 3 of Sigthorsson, Bojan, Fischer, Schone.

Personally I think Eriksen would be better off forward left for us (he has been more effective on the left coming in so far for us). I would love us to sign Clasie & Drmic and line up with the below possibilities:

Eriksen/Chadli Ade/Soldado Lamela/Drmic

Clasie/Holtby Sandro/Capoue Paulinho/Sigg

 

[Snarfalicious]

Clasie coming in and playing with Sandro and Eriksen in a midfield 3 has me just about ready to squeeeee like a little lady. It's a great blend of talents and fully capable of bossing the midfield against anyone.

Get some capable CBs and a LB and we will be cooking with gas. Good Lord, I think it's finally just now hit me how many needs we have to address.

 

[DaSpurs]

I think De Boer's Ajax tactics can easily be modified for this league. I also think that the midfield I wrote above is just as dynamic as Ajax's and more defensive. Also, I think a forward 3 that included 3 of Chadli, Lamela Ade, Soldado and Eriksen is just as, if not more capable, of maintaining possession than a forward 3 that included 3 of Sigthorsson, Bojan, Fischer, Schone.

Personally I think Eriksen would be better off forward left for us (he has been more effective on the left coming in so far for us). I would love us to sign Clasie & Drmic and line up with the below possibilities:

Eriksen/Chadli Ade/Soldado Lamela/Drmic

Clasie/Holtby Sandro/Capoue Paulinho/Sigg

You have high hopes for our current slew, amigo.

As for the midfield, I think we've no choice but to disagree that they're dynamic enough. In fact, it's one of the components of this squad I think we're the very weakest at. Too many similar players with not enough aggression to get forward and make plays in transition. Far, far too many horizontal and slow passes. You're right that your lineup is more defensive, but that's partially because they don't have the fluidity and dynamic play to maintain staying forward and provide defense through efficient possession.

I wish I could agree with you on the winger/forwards. For me, pushing Eriksen out wide sacrifices too much in defensive contribution and at the expensive of creativity through the middle. We are just so devoid of forward play through the middle that I'm very reluctant to see the talent we do have that can play centrally away from the middle. I like the look of Drmic though, especially as a CF to pick the locks and set up the wingers, and yet furthermore since I think we can realistically expect Ade to be off.

 

[DaSpurs]

Clasie coming in and playing with Sandro and Eriksen in a midfield 3 has me just about ready to squeeeee like a little lady. It's a great blend of talents and fully capable of bossing the midfield against anyone.

Get some capable CBs and a LB and we will be cooking with gas. Good Lord, I think it's finally just now hit me how many needs we have to address.

Yeah, unfortunately it's true. Glad to see people realizing that addressing the back line will not be enough though.

And I agree, Sandro/Cap in the No 6, Clasie as No 8, and Eriksen as the No 10 is about as good as it gets as far as balance, and the possession and attack it would make more efficient.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Yeah, unfortunately it's true. Glad to see people realizing that addressing the back line will not be enough though.

It really boils down to what happens with Vertonghen. He's our best CB when he's motivated and playing to his ability. Chiriches is a great backup to him and will still get plenty of time. Kaboul back and keeping healthy (his red card is a blessing in disguise in my mind - allows him get extra rest and go into the offseason fully healthy) is huge as well. Maybe just one enforcing type of CB is necessary. Obviously, LB needs to be addressed for an immediate starter as Rose simply isn't good enough.

 

[beats1]

Clasie coming in and playing with Sandro and Eriksen in a midfield 3 has me just about ready to squeeeee like a little lady. It's a great blend of talents and fully capable of bossing the midfield against anyone.

Get some capable CBs and a LB and we will be cooking with gas. Good Lord, I think it's finally just now hit me how many needs we have to address.

Issue is who would you get rid of

We currently have
Sandro, Capoue, Paulinho, Dembele, Eriksen, Holtby, Siggy and Bentaleb

Now most teams don't have more than 5 first CM we have 8! here is the game time given to other teams 5th choice CM:
Chelsea: Van Ginkel(4) and Essien (9)
Man City: Rodwell (10)
Liverpool: Allen (16) worth noting that only 7 starts and that Lucas (4th choice CM behind Gerrard, Coutinho and Henderson) has only 14 starts
Arsenal: Kallstrom (4)
Everton: Gibson (2)
Man Utd: not even 5th choice but 4th choice Fellaini has 20 appearances

 

[Snarfalicious]

Issue is who would you get rid of

We currently have
Sandro, Capoue, Paulinho, Dembele, Eriksen, Holtby, Siggy and Bentaleb

Now most teams don't have more than 5 first CM we have 8! here is the game time given to other teams 5th choice CM:
Chelsea: Van Ginkel(4) and Essien (9)
Man City: Rodwell (10)
Liverpool: Allen (16) worth noting that only 7 starts and that Lucas (4th choice CM behind Gerrard, Coutinho and Henderson) has only 14 starts
Arsenal: Kallstrom (4)
Everton: Gibson (2)
Man Utd: not even 5th choice but 4th choice Fellaini has 20 appearances

Bentaleb: Most definitely look for an option to loan him out. Possibly a team recently promoted. He's going to have some interest.

Holtby/Siggy: Dangle them out there, see what we can get. I love em both as they have their strengths that bring something different to the table, but if we get a decent enough offer, we can't refuse it.

Also, I wouldn't ignore that we might be moving a 3-man midfield. A lot of those sides utilize 2 midfielders thus the need for more depth isn't as big of a necessity. It'll depend on what we want to do moving forward. If we decide to go with a double-pivot, then sure, we probably need to "trim some fat."

 

[spurs9]

You have high hopes for our current slew, amigo.

As for the midfield, I think we've no choice but to disagree that they're dynamic enough. In fact, it's one of the components of this squad I think we're the very weakest at. Too many similar players with not enough aggression to get forward and make plays in transition. Far, far too many horizontal and slow passes. You're right that your lineup is more defensive, but that's partially because they don't have the fluidity and dynamic play to maintain staying forward and provide defense through efficient possession.

I wish I could agree with you on the winger/forwards. For me, pushing Eriksen out wide sacrifices too much in defensive contribution and at the expensive of creativity through the middle. We are just so devoid of forward play through the middle that I'm very reluctant to see the talent we do have that can play centrally away from the middle. I like the look of Drmic though, especially as a CF to pick the locks and set up the wingers, and yet furthermore since I think we can realistically expect Ade to be off.

I do have high hopes for our squad and don't think we should judge them on this season which has been a shambles.

I think we will have to disagree on the midfield and forward line.

Also, I think we are talking about a different Drmic as the one I was referring to (Josip) isn'y a pick the locks, set up the wingers type but more, make runs in behind the defense, run at at defenders type and I think he will be better suited on the wings at this point in time.

 

[beats1]

Bentaleb: Most definitely look for an option to loan him out. Possibly a team recently promoted. He's going to have some interest.

Holtby/Siggy: Dangle them out there, see what we can get. I love em both as they have their strengths that bring something different to the table, but if we get a decent enough offer, we can't refuse it.

Also, I wouldn't ignore that we might be moving a 3-man midfield. A lot of those sides utilize 2 midfielders thus the need for more depth isn't as big of a necessity. It'll depend on what we want to do moving forward. If we decide to go with a double-pivot, then sure, we probably need to "trim some fat."

Personally I would keep either carroll or Bentaleb as 6th/5th choice CM for a 433

I think eriksen is set in stone as CM for next season

Eriksen ............. Bentaleb

Holtby is a 50/50. I personally would like to go for Pirlo we need that experience of a winner and we don't have it. The only winner we have ever had has been Davids and the effect he was big imo.

Eriksen, Pirlo/Holtby, Bentaleb, Dembele/Paulinho, Sandro/Capoue and possibly one of Paulinho and Capoue or go for someone like Clasie

The thing is with Clasie is that Man Utd would be after him imo with LVG going there.

I would loan Siggy tbh.

Though it sounds crazy that Im suggesting getting rid of 4cm's and getting 2!

 

[DaSpurs]

Issue is who would you get rid of

We currently have
Sandro, Capoue, Paulinho, Dembele, Eriksen, Holtby, Siggy and Bentaleb

Now most teams don't have more than 5 first CM we have 8! here is the game time given to other teams 5th choice CM:
Chelsea: Van Ginkel(4) and Essien (9)
Man City: Rodwell (10)
Liverpool: Allen (16) worth noting that only 7 starts and that Lucas (4th choice CM behind Gerrard, Coutinho and Henderson) has only 14 starts
Arsenal: Kallstrom (4)
Everton: Gibson (2)
Man Utd: not even 5th choice but 4th choice Fellaini has 20 appearances

Indeed that is the issue. We even have more, as we have to include Livermore and Carroll. I would move:

- Bentaleb and Carroll for Prem loans, and only if they're Prem loans.

- Siggy for sure, especially since his value would remain decently high due to his performances for Iceland and would be HG to another English team.

- Paulinho if we get our money back, as even that would be sufficient to buy an excellent replacement with funds to spare for other positions.

- This won't be popular, but Dembele if we get a decent offer and we don't see improvement from his hip injury. We've too many CM's and too many other needs to hold on to an admittedly quality player who's only set to degrade and doesn't provide incisiveness through the attacking third. This would have to be a solid offer though, as Dembele offers quite a bit of versatility in the middle where he lacks that final bite in the final third of the pitch.

- Holtby if he demands immediate playing time and the manager doesn't deem him a better option for the No 8 or No 10 slot over the other options. If he goes though, hold on to Carroll.

To summarize, I would only aggressively move on Bentaleb, Siggy, and Paulinho, and assess the remainders as offers and physical evaluations arise.

 

[DaSpurs]

I do have high hopes for our squad and don't think we should judge them on this season which has been a shambles.

I think we will have to disagree on the midfield and forward line.

Also, I think we are talking about a different Drmic as the one I was referring to (Josip) isn'y a pick the locks, set up the wingers type but more, make runs in behind the defense, run at at defenders type and I think he will be better suited on the wings at this point in time.

We are indeed speaking of the same player. I think he'd be great since he certainly could provide more than adequate cover on the wings, but he's also a great option at CF since he has the athleticism to involve the rest of the attacking players by indeed getting into those spaces with his runs and dribbling. Would certainly not be unhappy with seeing him in either position for us at the start of next season.

I don't blame you for assessing our team under the overarching theme of this season, but there have regardless been some peaces missing since even when AVB took over that we have still failed to address even after a summer spending spree. I very much hope to see those addressed this summer under the new manager.

 

[DaSpurs]

The thing is with Clasie is that Man Utd would be after him imo with LVG going there.

Actually, I expect LvG to move for Strootman. He's one of his favorite players, and would be exactly the kind of player Man U could immediately use if he can get healthy in time for next season. But regardless, if he doesn't deem Strootman a good immediate option because of the knee issue, I think he could still bring in a more established option than Clasie.

 

[beats1]

Actually, I expect LvG to move for Strootman. He's one of his favorite players, and would be exactly the kind of player Man U could immediately use if he can get healthy in time for next season. But regardless, if he doesn't deem Strootman a good immediate option because of the knee issue, I think he could still bring in a more established option than Clasie.

Can he sign Strootman, he wouldnt be fit in time for the transfer window

 

[DaSpurs]

Can he sign Strootman, he wouldnt be fit in time for the transfer window

Most likely not, but I think he'd buy someone else for immediate impact this summer and move for Strootman later rather than get Clasie at any point.

 

[formlesswater]

Most likely not, but I think he'd buy someone else for immediate impact this summer and move for Strootman later rather than get Clasie at any point.

Strootman suffered a serious knee injury. He may never fully recover, and he could now have knee problems for the rest of his career. He is too much of a risk imo.

 

[DaSpurs]

Strootman suffered a serious knee injury. He may never fully recover, and he could now have knee problems for the rest of his career. He is too much of a risk imo.

Oh I'm indeed aware, but I still think it's more likely LvG would pursue him at a later date rather than Clasie this summer, which would suit us.

 

[Barry Mead]

Indeed that is the issue. We even have more, as we have to include Livermore and Carroll. I would move:

- Bentaleb and Carroll for Prem loans, and only if they're Prem loans.

- Siggy for sure, especially since his value would remain decently high due to his performances for Iceland and would be HG to another English team.

- Paulinho if we get our money back, as even that would be sufficient to buy an excellent replacement with funds to spare for other positions.

- This won't be popular, but Dembele if we get a decent offer and we don't see improvement from his hip injury. We've too many CM's and too many other needs to hold on to an admittedly quality player who's only set to degrade and doesn't provide incisiveness through the attacking third. This would have to be a solid offer though, as Dembele offers quite a bit of versatility in the middle where he lacks that final bite in the final third of the pitch.

- Holtby if he demands immediate playing time and the manager doesn't deem him a better option for the No 8 or No 10 slot over the other options. If he goes though, hold on to Carroll.

To summarize, I would only aggressively move on Bentaleb, Siggy, and Paulinho, and assess the remainders as offers and physical evaluations arise.

I would certainly look to move Siggy, Holtby, Paulinho, Livermore and Dembele and loan out Carroll maybe Bentalab to PL clubs

I actually think Paulinho can be a very good player in the right team and could be useful in ours, but he is in demand and will fetch good money and we have a number of bigger needs. I think the others I mentioned to sell all have strengths too, but are not really best fit for us, or have enough balance of strengths and again selling Dembele, Holtby, Siggy and Livermore would significantly boost the kitty

I would certainly buy Clasie, but I'd also like to buy Kovacic. Kovacic still has to develop his game and find consistency at his better levels, but he has the ability to beat players as well as play a passing game.

Dembele aside our only players who can really beat players are the wingers and Dembele, though he can easily beat one or two players does have a habit of trying to beat too many and losing possession or lacking direction making a meandering run holding onto the ball too long can still allow the opposition to get back behind the ball.

Kovacic when he does make his runs tends to be far more pacy and direct and gets the ball in advanced areas before defences are really organised. Be nice to have the option of a player like that in midfield