Jose Mourinho

[Trotter]

I'm not dominishing our previous manager, I'm stating that across his last 24 games he accumulated 25 points. At that average we'd have been looking at regulation for a lot of PL seasons.

I loved Poch but I think it's fair to say that a run of form that spans 24 Pl games isn't just a 'random period' as you stated. Daniel Levy felt the same hence why he packed him in.

It'll take me a while to dig that link up but in the meantime I do have this... the form table for every team who task taken part in the PL from the time we lost away to Burnley, when the rot started to set in through to Sheffield United 1-1 draw at home, Pochettinos last game as manager.

23rd February 2019- 9th November 2019, the 24 game period that caused concern:


Liverpool 65 points
Man City 58 points
Chelsea 48 points
Tottenham 25 points (+1 GD)
Arsenal 34 points
Man U 30 points
Wolves 33 points
Everton 35 points
Leicester 46 points
West Ham 29 points
Watford 18 points
Crystal Palace 34 points
Newcastle 32 points
Bournemouth 27 points
Burnley 25 points (-7 GD)
Southampton 23 points
Brighton 24 points
----------------------------
Cardiff 9 PLUS (Championship PL 15, W 5, D 6, L 4 = 21 points) 30 points
Fulham 9 PLUS (Championship PL 16, W 7, D 5, L 4 = 26 points) 35 points
Huddersfield 5 PLUS (Championship PL 16, W 4, D 4, L 8 = 16 points) 21 points

----------------------------
Sheffield United .....PLUS 17 (Championship PL 8, W 4, D 3, L 1 = 15 points) 32 points
Aston Villa....PLUS 11 (Championship PL 8, W 6, D 1, L 1 = 19 points) 30 points
Norwich City.....PLUS 7 (Championship - PL 13, W 9, D 4, L 0 = 31 points) 38 points


Liverpool 65 points
Man City 58 points
Chelsea 48 points
Leicester 46 points
(NORWICH 38 points)
Everton 35 points
(FULHAM 35 points)
Arsenal 34 points
Crystal Palace 34 points
Wolves 33 points
Newcastle 32 points
(Sheffield United 32 points)
(Aston Villa 30 points)
(Cardiff City 30 points)
Man United 30 points
West Ham 29 points
Bournemouth 27 points
Burnley 25 points
TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR 25 points
Brighton 24 points
Southampton 23 points
(Huddersfield 21 points)
Watford 18 points

This isn't the examples or evidence of the link, as mentioned I'll have to dig that particular time period out as I did see something a few months ago.

When you have teams like West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle and Crystal Palace getting more points than you/ showing better form over a 3/4 season spell, you need to leave the old manager behind and say thanks for the memories

Not denying we were poor for just less than 2/3rds (not 3/4 of a season), not even saying it was the wrong decision to remove Pochettino.
However are you still denying that basically you made up a statement, considering you have taken a 15 game and 24 game period to suit your argument which on both occasions disproves your own statement ?
Still waiting for you to say, "sorry I was wrong and I retract my made up statement"

 

[Dr Benson]

 

[Donki]

I never said honours don't reflect success did I? Pretty sure I didn't because it would be nonsensical.

The statement made was (boiled down) that no one remembers playing style. Only trophies.

Le Tissier is more fondly remembered than Nicky Butt.

So is Hoddle.

That is because their medal tally is not a true reflection of their impact on the game.

Therefore the statement is manifestly false (which is not the same thing as saying honours don't matter)

Feel like I'm picking on Butt who was very decent player. You were a champ Nicky and you've got more than enough shiny medals to cry yourself to sleep over

But what I’m saying is, your comparing a team player to an iconic player. Put it this way if Sheringham had stayed with us, instead of joining Unitd and winning them the Champions league, would he get the same recognition now? Of course he wouldn’t, even though I’d say he is up there with the best players I’ve seen in a Spurs shirt.

Again Nicky but was a team player while ale Tisser was the main man at the Saints.

Another example Gaza will be known as a talented player who was loved but Lampard probably had half the technical ability but he will be seen as a winner.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

Not denying we were poor for just less than 2/3rds (not 3/4 of a season), not even saying it was the wrong decision to remove Pochettino.
However are you still denying that basically you made up a statement, considering you have taken a 15 game and 24 game period to suit your argument which on both occasions disproves your own statement ?
Still waiting for you to say, "sorry I was wrong and I retract my made up statement"

No I'm not still denying it, as I have said if you cared to listen I read this on a link a few months ago. I read dozens of articles on Spurs daily so to dig up one that reflects what I am saying will take some time, especially with every day life goings on to deal with. I'm sure you'll understand that unless I can remember more keywords than Tottenham, bottom and form that it will take some time.

What I read is what I read.... if it's incorrect I'll say so but even if it isn't, does a point above the relegation zone form wise over a 24 PL game period based on the teams what are still active in the PL really mean that my statement based on our appalling form lack genuine substance to have to erdicate it? If so I will change it from bottom of the league form to..... 1 point off of relegation zone form across a 24 period based on all active teams still in the PL. either way it's shocking for a club like Spurs.

 

[Phomesy]

But what I’m saying is, your comparing a team player to an iconic player. Put it this way if Sheringham had stayed with us, instead of joining Unitd and winning them the Champions league, would he get the same recognition now? Of course he wouldn’t, even though I’d say he is up there with the best players I’ve seen in a Spurs shirt.

But I was never making the argument that winning stuff doesn't matter. Just that its false to say if you don't win anything you aren't remembered.

Last season at WHL we won fuck all but anyone who was at the Lane that year will remember it for the rest of their lives. Because it was a truly memorable experience. Would it have been enhanced by winning the title? Of course. But we didn't. Doesn't mean it isn't worth remembering though.

There are literally thousands of teams with millions of supporters who are never actually in a position to "win" stuff. Are all of their experiences to be invalidated? Of course not.

 

[Donki]

But I was never making the argument that winning stuff doesn't matter. Just that its false to say if you don't win anything you aren't remembered.

Last season at WHL we won fuck all but anyone who was at the Lane that year will remember it for the rest of their lives. Because it was a truly memorable experience. Would it have been enhanced by winning the title? Of course. But we didn't. Doesn't mean it isn't worth remembering though.

There are literally thousands of teams with millions of supporters who are never actually in a position to "win" stuff. Are all of their experiences to be invalidated? Of course not.

Of course club fan bases will value moments that others don’t, but that’s very different than a world football fan base valuing something. The vast majority of my family are United fans and while they acknowledge Hoddle was a world class player, most call him a luxury player, some refer to him as a bit of a fanny on the pitch. These are uncles and an older generation who actually watched him at the time.

 

[Phomesy]

Of course club fan bases will value moments that others don’t, but that’s very different than a world football fan base valuing something. The vast majority of my family are United fans and while they acknowledge Hoddle was a world class player, most call him a luxury player, some refer to him as a bit of a fanny on the pitch. These are uncles and an older generation who actually watched him at the time.

I'd respectfully suggest the vast majority of your family are @£$%££


But the fact they acknowledge Hoddle was a world class player is all you need to know to see the point I'm making.

It's a silly argument anyway. There's a select few clubs who monopolise "winning things" around World Leagues. If they are all who matter we may as well just fucking pack the whole thing in.

Hoddle, Shearer; Gascoigne; Ginola, le Tissier - the list goes on. If we are to invalidate their contribution to the game simply because they didn't play for the right "power club" at the right time then what's the fucking point of anything?

But we don't have too because all those players are rightly remembered throughout the football world for their contribution.

 

[S0S]

Ramos won the league cup for us, he isn't remembered any more fondly than Redknapp or Poch

I was at Wembley for the league cup final win vs Chelsea in 2008, I only watched the second leg of last seasons CL semi final in the pub, but as an isolated day I know I will always remember the latter as the most amazing day I've witnessed as a Spurs fan (including FA cup win in 91 and a couple of League cup successes)

Yes the game is about glory, glory isn't only silverware, but I agree it's a big part of it

If Jose wins us some silverware great

I'd much rather him make us a league title and CL challenger than get us a FA cup, League cup or Europa league title personally, I think in the modern game a team who is consistently in the champions league with a chance of success in the two biggest tournaments is more successful than one that picks up a one off trophy with a lucky cup run in a lower level competition (personal opinion)

I don't dislike Jose like some of our fans seem to, in fact I have always found him entertaining and charming (even during his Chelsea and Man U days) I am more than happy for him to be our manager and be successful

I do think it is a very real concern that his best days may be behind him however, I do think there's a very strong potential for him to be the wrong man for our club and for it to all end sooner rather than later without success

 

[Donki]

I'd respectfully suggest the vast majority of your family are @£$%££


But the fact they acknowledge Hoddle was a world class player is all you need to know to see the point I'm making.

It's a silly argument anyway. There's a select few clubs who monopolise "winning things" around World Leagues. If they are all who matter we may as well just fucking pack the whole thing in.

Hoddle, Shearer; Gascoigne; Ginola, le Tissier - the list goes on. If we are to invalidate their contribution to the game simply because they didn't play for the right "power club" at the right time then what's the fucking point of anything?

But we don't have too because all those players are rightly remembered throughout the football world for their contribution.

They probably are, but the fact you include Ginola, who again I loved, but really was only a guy with good hair and huge amounts of flair and no world class outcomes.

Club cult hero’s are only really recognised by the club they played for. On a whole in football history that’s all they will be, club icons. You seem to think we are a club where we can hold our hero’s higher than others? Why do you think that? I don’t get it, I love my hero’s but sure as fuck I wouldn’t even try to argue any of our premiership hero’s bar maybe King over any of United’s golden generation i woukd quite rightly feel like a retard.

I feel this is a really odd argument. The only player we have currently we can classify as world class is Hugo with France and Kane with his goal scoring record. You may love our players like I do, but fuck me i wouldn’t put them in a class with a championship winning side. It’s totally unarguable.

 

[Phomesy]

They probably are, but the fact you include Ginola, who again I loved, but really was only a guy with good hair and huge amounts of flair and no world class outcomes.

Club cult hero’s are only really recognised by the club they played for. On a whole in football history that’s all they will be, club icons. You seem to think we are a club where we can hold our hero’s higher than others? Why do you think that? I don’t get it, I love my hero’s but sure as fuck I wouldn’t even try to argue any of our premiership hero’s bar maybe King over any of United’s golden generation i woukd quite rightly feel like a retard.

I feel this is a really odd argument. The only player we have currently we can classify as world class is Hugo with France and Kane with his goal scoring record. You may love our players like I do, but fuck me i wouldn’t put them in a class with a championship winning side. It’s totally unarguable.

Yeah I think you've completely misunderstood the entire point of this exchange, I suggest you go back and look at how it started (From Gb's post to which I responded) because I have no idea how you've got to this latest response from what I've been saying.


It was very simple: Gb said "only winners (trophies) are remembered" I replied "but Hoddle isn't remembered for his trophies"

It really is as simple as that.

You seem to have made it into something completely tangential now and I don't even know how to respond to your latest post.

Unless you are of the belief that only Spurs people "remember" Hoddle. To which I'd suggest you are very very much mistaken.

 

[Donki]

Yeah I think you've completely misunderstood the entire point of this exchange, I suggest you go back and look at how it started (From Gb's post to which I responded) because I have no idea how you've got to this latest response from what I've been saying.


It was very simple: Gb said "only winners (trophies) are remembered" I replied "but Hoddle isn't remembered for his trophies"

It really is as simple as that.

You seem to have made it into something completely tangential now and I don't even know how to respond to your latest post.

Unless you are of the belief that only Spurs people "remember" Hoddle. To which I'd suggest you are very very much mistaken.

Lol I’m saying players with honours deserve more recognition than players who don’t, u can try to patron use me all u want mate, that s me being polite. Of course cult players are important, but a player who wins and leads deserves more than a one who doesn’t. Again just my opinion.

 

[jay2040]

We all want to win trophies, I’m desperate to win something. Just not desperate enough to give up our football principles. I want to win but I want to win in style, we nearly did it too with Poch. Now we’ve chucked it all the way and hired that prick. And if he does win something it’ll be all about him. He will take all the credit.

He is the manager surely he would get the credit! The team was playing shit under Poch. Seems you only remember what you want!

What footballing principles you fucking on about ? There is only one and that is win every game!

 

[Phomesy]

Lol I’m saying players with honours deserve more recognition than players who don’t, u can try to patron use me all u want mate, that s me being polite. Of course cult players are important, but a player who wins and leads deserves more than a one who doesn’t. Again just my opinion.

So Nikki Butt deserves our respect more than Glenn Hoddle? Because he happened to play in the most successful side in living memory and Hoddle didn't.

Gotcha.

Luckily not only do all other Spurs fans disagree but so does the vast majority of the footballing world.

Congrats - you've take Gb's spurious (if understandable at the time) point and made it a hill you've successfully died upon.

smh

 

[Metalhead]

So Nikki Butt deserves our respect more than Glenn Hoddle? Because he happened to play in the most successful side in living memory and Hoddle didn't.

Gotcha.

Luckily not only do all other Spurs fans disagree but so does the vast majority of the footballing world.

Congrats - you've take Gb's spurious (if understandable at the time) point and made it a hill you've successfully died upon.

smh

Would Nicky Butt or Glenn Hoddle get more respect from Man U fans?

 

[Phomesy]

Would Nicky Butt or Glenn Hoddle get more respect from Man U fans?

What's this got to do with my point?

 

[Gb160]

Lads I think the context about my point is being missed.
When I said 'only winners get remembered' I'm talking about the teams, not individuals.
There might be the odd exception like the great Dutch side that didn't win anything, but generally speaking thats just how it is.
I didn't mean to spark a three page debate on Glen Hoddle vs Nicky crapping Butt.

 

[shelfboy68]

Lads I think the context about my point is being missed.
When I said 'only winners get remembered' I'm talking about the teams, not individuals.
There might be the odd exception like the great Dutch side that didn't win anything, but generally speaking thats just how it is.
I didn't mean to spark a three page debate on Glen Hoddle vs Nicky crapping Butt.

But you have ?

 

[longtimespur]

Lads I think the context about my point is being missed.
When I said 'only winners get remembered' I'm talking about the teams, not individuals.
There might be the odd exception like the great Dutch side that didn't win anything, but generally speaking thats just how it is.
I didn't mean to spark a three page debate on Glen Hoddle vs Nicky crapping Butt.

I rated optimistic as this is an Internet forum. It’s why things get heated because written words can easily be misconstrued.

 

[rez9000]

I rated optimistic as this is an Internet forum. It’s why things get heated because written words can easily be misconstrued.

That's a horrible thing to say!

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

The latest words of wisdom from our leader , sure we will improve when all his hair grows back..