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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
Think the article below is quite a balanced and fair one. The bolded the last part as this made me realise even more f how close we were and how far away we are right now.


The best media seat in the Premier League used to be at White Hart Lane. Directly behind the dugouts, it didn’t help much if you wanted to observe patterns of play, but if you required a view of how fast, physical and athletic modern football is, then it could not be beaten. It was particularly impressive viewing back when Mauricio Pochettino was building something at Tottenham.

Players such as Toby Alderweireld, Kyle Walker, Moussa Dembele, Eric Dier and Harry Kane were prototype Premier League footballers. Big, quick, clever players, designed to win the 100-yard dash and rounds one, two and three of the big fight all at the same time. It must have been a rare old time to be a Spurs fan. Pochettino was smart, likeable and a young coach with a clear plan.

And this is what is sad — not so much what Tottenham will become under Mourinho, but thinking instead about everything they have lost.
I think that's a good summary of the last 5 or 6 years in a few sentences. Pochettino arrived and had a strategy that was groundbreaking at the time. It was wonderful. But as other clubs, or should I say the entire league, caught up with him and his strategy wasn't that groundbreaking, it seemed like there wasn't a strategy at all. And all we are left with are memories of being the nearly ones. Tottenham was the best club in a 36 months perspective, but never the best one in a 12 months perspective. Tottenham reached a CL final, but in hindsight it would have been better if that never happened. Tottenham had Kane, but the bittersweet memory will be of a player who had to leave to win. So yes, much is lost. But at least the stadium exteriors are still shining.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Ill start this by saying its great to hear Mourinho say he wants to target plays with mental fortitude. That leaves me optimistic were looking for the right sort of thing.



Mourinho didnt say that when he arrived. He said the opposite. He said he appreciated the fact that for once there was honesty from the owners about the resources and expectations and that he was happy with that.

Happy to be corrected with a link but otherwise dont pretend Mourinho is voicing your opinion.



I was interested to see whether you were right. So I checked, going back to 2015 (time to see what happened to duds under Klopp).

Karius - 2 years before being sold
Ings - 4 years
Clyne - 5 years. Unsold, just left on a free.
Benteke - 1 year, sold at 15m loss.
Grujic - 4.5 years and unsold.

What stood out was that they bought remarkably few duds in that time but they havent been particularly good at selling them. Benteke is the exception but the sold him for a big loss.

Chelsea's turn.

Morata - 2 years.
Bakayoko - 3 years unsold
Drinkwater - 3 years unsold
Zappacosta - 3 years unsold
These 4 alone are standing at a total of 105m in wasted money from that summer (10m loss on Morata, others big fees and negligible loan fees recouped on unsold players).
Batshuyai - 4 years unsold.
Luiz - 3 years, 26m loss
Baba Abdul Rahmen - 5 years, unsold
Kenedy - 5 years, unsold
Michael Hector - 4.5 years
Nathan - 5 years
Papy Djilobodji - 1 year

Chelsea have lost a very large amount of money on bad players that it has taken them 18 months or less to sell 1 time out of 11. That was the last player on the list who was sold to Sunderland. Perhaps equivalent to our Wimmer deal with Stoke.

They key difference is that Liverpool and Chelsea have loaned these duds out more often. That liberates room in the squad lists and avoids having an unhappy character around. However it does nothing for their sale price or even their capacity to be sold (perhaps surprisingly!).

Conclusion: Liverpool and Chelsea do have problems selling players who have not been a success. 75% of the time (12 out of 16) they take three years or longer to be sold and this is often done at a loss (huge losses in Chelsea's case).
He did say that mate, check out his early press conferences.
This isn’t the exact full one but he’s complimented the behind the scenes setup and running of the club in quite a few interviews early on, I watched them all, did you actually watch them before you make judgements?
possibly he said this to make levy happy or for a veiled dig at Ed Woodward/ man.u or he genuinely believes it, we will probably never know which :
Football.London quotes the Tottenham boss as saying: “Everybody is around me. Mr Levy is next door to me, his office is next door to me. Everyday I need him he is there. He needs me, I’m there. Then the chief scout [Steve Hitchen] is the next door. I meet him everyday. If I want to speak he’s there. If he wants to speak with me, I’m here. The academy boss [John McDermott] three doors [down]. Everything is close, it’s commitment.”
” I think it's something that has to make us all very, very proud. But not just that, the conditions you have to work in are absolutely amazing."

but yea good points about other clubs selling their dubs taking time but levy holds us back on the transfers and football strategy if anyone can’t see that by now they’re either blind, ignorant or stupid
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
I have tried to clear my head and think about it all over again.

When he was hired all our itk promised us he was a new José who would play this new style of football and Sacramento was fundamental to this so I went back and found some Lille games and watched them to see what his influence was also like there and then I done some further research on what others have said about him and it’s safe to say he definitely is not from the school of Jose’s pragmatic approach which we are currently operating with his training sessions we are as well do not look pragmatic.

So why has José reverted to type and stared implanting this slow turgid counter attack football that just doesn’t seem to work?

To me it looks as if the in the corona break he realised about 7 things

1 x Toby is declining and is not first choice which is weird as Jose wanted him while at United

2 x We have no real viable midfield pairing and it is in fact square pegs round hole

3 x The only viable way we can create things is through Aurier so this means we have to carry him and Sissoko just seems to be a man on a mission with covering his mate so when he starts in midfield we get ripped apart.

4 x Dier & Sanchez is his pairing he obviously sees something in them that he thinks can work and for what it’s worth I think he’s right? Dier and Sanchez have made mistakes but to be fair we could have Maldini and Baresi in our pairing and they would still get ripped apart the problem is not the centre of defence but the midfield balance in front of it.

5 x the midfield Jose knows we have a problem he knows he has no option here Harry Winks can’t carry out the role he wants him to do and he knows N’dombele is definitely not the answer to his problems so his option c and d are gedson or skipp both unproven and learning he may now be at the stage where one of these has to play or he has to find another solution which could be Dier or Sanchez even moved into the middle.

6 x Jose knows the squad can’t do what he wants so he’s reverted to a powerful sit deep and counter team as he thinks this our best way of playing as if we try to attack or play the pressing game with our current squad it’s good night.

7 x he knows this season is a write off and thinks maybe no Europa and a clear fixture list next season to rebuild with a smaller squad is the answer.

So he is now in a place where he just tries to get us not to concede and hope one of our players individual brilliance i.e sonny,Harry,stevie pinches us a goal.


Overall in parts against Sheffield and West Ham we could actually see patterns of play starting to develop which showed there has been work done. We also showed vs United we can stay solid but individual mistakes are still being made which is either from mental tiredness or plain panic and I think it’s the latter.

I think there is a chain of events in our team

1 Aurier is always out of position and teams now know we line up with 3 stay at home system so to counter this most teams now attack the left hand side and it’s pretty obvious the midfield pairing aren’t the defensive minded type but sissoko seems to have been given the job of covering the right hand side but the issue there is Sissoko is also our defensive midfielder so as soon as he goes roaming to cover his mate it leaves gaps everywhere, where all sorts of players start to go into stupid situations.

The next problem is our attackers they simply do not do enough defensively because we start so deep with the block they are defending tiredly if you watch the goals we concede you can see the patterns of play that undo us it’s so easy to read!. But at fault for the last four goals the same pattern has been responsible no midfield takes responsibility

1 x United for penalty Winks didn’t come across to help dier, he gave away the pen.

1 x first Sheffield United goal both centre midfielders switch off Berge drops deep easy finish.

2 x United goal Sissoko is knackered and gives up chasing team is pulled apart dier and Davies make a mistake mainly Davies united score.

3 x well it’s even more of a mess but again aurier and the midfield get pulled apart we concede.

I think now we know champions league is out of the question we need to take a hit and Jose also needs to be brave and reshuffle the pack.

I think it’s time for the 4-2-1-3

Lloris
Gedson/Serge/Sissoko
Dier
Sanchez
Davies

Skipp

Lo Celso
N’dombele

Bergiwjn
Kane
Son


Skipp should be good basically to just patrol and area and give the ball to Lo celso nothing more and we start again.
Good post
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
He did say that mate, check out his early press conferences.
This isn’t the exact full one but he’s complimented the behind the scenes setup and running of the club in quite a few interviews early on, I watched them all, did you actually watch them before you make judgements?
possibly he said this to make levy happy or for a veiled dig at Ed Woodward/ man.u or he genuinely believes it, we will probably never know which :
Football.London quotes the Tottenham boss as saying: “Everybody is around me. Mr Levy is next door to me, his office is next door to me. Everyday I need him he is there. He needs me, I’m there. Then the chief scout [Steve Hitchen] is the next door. I meet him everyday. If I want to speak he’s there. If he wants to speak with me, I’m here. The academy boss [John McDermott] three doors [down]. Everything is close, it’s commitment.”
” I think it's something that has to make us all very, very proud. But not just that, the conditions you have to work in are absolutely amazing."

but yea good points about other clubs selling their dubs taking time but levy holds us back on the transfers and football strategy if anyone can’t see that by now they’re either blind, ignorant or stupid
Hi - I appreciate the evidence and the reasonable post. I think this is a misunderstanding. When you said...


Jose said when he came in the club had all the set-up to be successful but Jose or any other manager will not be successful for us with levy so heavily involved In the football side of things and transfers etc, he suffocates us.

I thought you were saying that Jose was saying he will not be successful with Levy so heavily involved, when in fact that was your opinion and Jose only said the first bit.

No problem and I hadnt realised they were all next door to each other. Good setup.
 

Oh Teddy Teddy

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2017
5,126
12,060
Many use Mourinho being only able to stay at a club for a maximum of 3 years as a stick to beat him with.

But with his reluctance to stay anywhere long term and our penchant for sacking managers, I think the original point you quoted rings true.

if he’s talking about a four-five year project, there is no way he’ll be here then.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Hi - I appreciate the evidence and the reasonable post. I think this is a misunderstanding. When you said...




I thought you were saying that Jose was saying he will not be successful with Levy so heavily involved, when in fact that was your opinion and Jose only said the first bit.

No problem and I hadnt realised they were all next door to each other. Good setup.
Ah yes missunderstanding then haha I was confused by your post, makes sense.
 

Robbiepope

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2006
697
776
Am I the only one who actually can’t watch us at all at the moment ? I was telling myself it was in part due to Lack of crowds and unique circumstances we find ourselves in but after 30 years I have actually stopped watching us at the moment. I only realised we were playing when i saw the live ticker on Twitter

I think in part it’s because I know we have some excellent players and the life and soul seems to be sucked out of them. Years ago I hadn’t seen or enjoyed the greener grass and knew deep down the squad had major limitations.

Maybe as well I should actually watch a game with an open mind but the results and stuff I’ve read suggest the only difference is the excuses by Mourinho.

Wake me up when it’s over :(
 

SpursD22

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
4,682
8,929
Am I the only one who actually can’t watch us at all at the moment ? I was telling myself it was in part due to Lack of crowds and unique circumstances we find ourselves in but after 30 years I have actually stopped watching us at the moment. I only realised we were playing when i saw the live ticker on Twitter

I think in part it’s because I know we have some excellent players and the life and soul seems to be sucked out of them. Years ago I hadn’t or seen enjoyed the greener grass and knew deep down the squad had major limitations.

Maybe as well I should actually watch a game with an open mind but the results and stuff I’ve read suggest the only difference is the excuses by Mourinho.

Wake me up when it’s over :(

Same, I said I don’t care we won because I can’t watch shit like this every game
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
26,046
I'm genuinely more concerned than I've been since he was appointed. After the absolute dross against Sheffield United he called for a reaction, then put all the worst offenders back in the starting XI. What we got was not a reaction, but rather one of the most insipid performances I can ever remember. His tenure does not seem to be going anywhere good.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Yes boring game but clean sheet, discipline, focus, effort, organisation, game management and 3pts! Those are things which can lead to success. As I’ve said before it often ain’t pretty but it can be pretty effective. Given how shit and incompetent we were against Sheffield United that was an important performance and win. More and more signs of us becoming a Jose Mouriniho team, I just hope he can get some players he wants.

Loved Toby back at CB for this game, defence was solid, loved Hugo shouting at Son for not tracking back, that’s what we need a bit of fire in our bellies, loved gio playing further forwards, loved the tactical fouls and shithousery especially on Richarlison, it was clear that the tactics were to stop him at all costs and by doing that we stopped them, they had 6 touches in our box, finally I loved the result.

COYS
 

SpursD22

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
4,682
8,929
I’m not going to scream Mourinho out or constantly say he’s not the right manager for us but I will say we will never ever achieve anything with him as the manager. I obviously know he’s not the only problem but he’s one of the problem

And don’t bother replying telling me what he’s won in the past, because it’s in the past
 
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