Jose Mourinho

[Spurrific]

I have loads to say quite often - but this is all we do as a fan base - dig out managers. While we're all piling into Mourinho - the same fan base at the start of Poch's, Harrys etc piled in when it wasn't working.

Some piled in because they didn't like the hire, others because of tactics and so on. It's the same every time with every manager. Thing is on this one, the leash seems shorter because the manager previous, after a rocky start, came good.

Don't have to be personal about it either, but you were.

Carry on.

Yeah, football fans discuss football? We're unhappy with the turgid shit being served up - we're allowed to be, and we're allowed to voice that without having to justify ourselves.

I'm getting bored of this weird childish shit you pull where you try and act like I'm some sort of bully that always makes it personal with you. You just seem to take everything to heart. I'm putting you on ignore now, because I find engaging with you an absolute chore and you're becoming fucking strange whenever you reply to me.

 

[Metalhead]

Probably because he was tired of carrying everyone.

He was pissed off with not getting backed in the transfer market and not having what he considered to be the profile of a manager (I am paraphrasing but: “I am the coach, not the manager”).

Some of it was on him: the inflexibility over tactics, questionable in game management including substitutions, his comments about maybe leaving if we won the CL were not highlights. I know that people were annoyed about the book but had we been doing well then no-one would have batted an eyelid about it; the reluctance to distance himself from other jobs - was it really his responsibility to dismiss links with other clubs? No, not really.

 

[Wsussexspur]

Outside of the clear and obvious tactic of searching for Aurier down the right flank to cross it in, what really gets my goat is how apathetic we are in the opposition half and seemingly get to the penalty box without a clue of how to penetrate or even worse, get to an advanced position to only then look to play it back into our half.

This passive bollocks, multiple touch football coupled with an inability to find the final pass or dare we even ask for them to take a shot outside the penalty box is driving me nuts but of course, the $64,000 question is whether we apportion this to the managers directive or our international players not taking responsibility.

Manager.. If the players game after game aren't doing as they are instructed by him then he has the option to drop them and replace them with players who will do as he says. Jose hasn't done this!

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Yeah, football fans discuss football? We're unhappy with the turgid shit being served up - we're allowed to be, and we're allowed to voice that without having to justify ourselves.

I'm getting bored of this weird childish shit you pull where you try and act like I'm some sort of bully that always makes it personal with you. You just seem to take everything to heart. I'm putting you on ignore now, because I find engaging with you an absolute chore and you're becoming fucking strange whenever you reply to me.

You're the one who started picking on me. Take the fucking day off.

Edit: I'll add to this - I haven't said you can't discuss it - I said it's a problem our fans have though and listed recent managers who have had early criticism placed at their door. You don't have to justify yourself, then again you don't have to quote me and start by telling me you're not digging me out then go on to dig me out ...

 

[leemason2302]

I understand mate, as a fan of 45 year i'll say that this will be george graham x10 if levy continues..

we'll win two or three trophies but i'll deffo not put up schlepping to watch fucking turgid football and then have that dwarf bastard try and make it better by telling me about some disco ball stadium with posh fucking cheese

We couldn't win a egg and spoon race with this lot.

 

[wrd]

I remember getting shit last year for saying this year was going to need to be a rebuild and people were angry saying now was the time to win things, which understandably lead to the clamour for a manager with Jose record but I think it's clear we absolutely needed that rebuild/transition and my opinion was I'd rather sacrifice the team than Poch as it looked like the team was done.

Now that didn't happy and I'm more than happy to support Jose, I think he should get more out of the squad than he is but I think it's harsh to judge him entirely when it's so clear that we are in desperate need of the rebuild and I'll say this; If Jose isn't the man then what manager on earth is good enough to deal with this squad and how mentally burnt out it is that would be willing to come? How many times we going to roll the dice before we realise changing the man at the wheel isn't the solution.

There's an argument to say that if we're going to do a rebuild then a lot of fans don't want the rebuild in Jose's image which I understand as we're too negative atm but I do feel he deserves a chance to implement purely on the basis of he's currently the man at the helm.

 

[Dougal]

He was pissed off with not getting backed in the transfer market and not having what he considered to be the profile of a manager (I am paraphrasing but: “I am the coach, not the manager”).

Some of it was on him: the inflexibility over tactics, questionable in game management including substitutions, his comments about maybe leaving if we won the CL were not highlights. I know that people were annoyed about the book but had we been doing well then no-one would have batted an eyelid about it; the reluctance to distance himself from other jobs - was it really his responsibility to dismiss links with other clubs? No, not really.

It all boils down to the same thing. If he and Levy were on the same wavelength the rest would go away.

 

[mpickard2087]

Mourinho isn't the only issue at the club that needs to be addressed, and it is still early days for him and he isn't working under optimal conditions I will be fair to him, but thus far his work is a big part of the problem and how he goes about things needs completely revolutionising and I can't see that happening.

He's done the same thing for nigh on 20 years. Sit back wherever possible, draw teams out, make use of fast transitions and hit them on the counter attack. This is even what his 'attacking' Madrid team with 100's of goals - that some on here like to use at every chance to show he is an attacking manager - was largely based on. Even stuff like his split mentality fullbacks, as we see now with Aurier/Davies, he's done throughout with Valente/Ferreira, Cole/Ferreira, Maicon with Chivu or Zanetti, Marcelo/Arbeloa, etc. It's nothing new.

The problem is though that football has increasingly caught up. 'Transitions' has become a buzzword everyone focuses on, and throughout the last decade and especially in recent years (post Leicester's title, win played on the counter attack) teams now understand and respect this and plan for the counter attack. Smaller teams have become much more reliant on sitting behind the ball en masse and countering if possible, whilst even the bigger teams and their managers - the Klopps, Guardiola's of the world - have seen how football is going and tweaked what they do, became a little more pragmatic, and try not to get exposed to fast turnovers.

So everyone is planning for them. Small teams are sat back behind the ball. Bigger teams are on the whole a bit more wary of the 'rope a dope'. Some weeks you might get a disorganised team, or one having a bad day, that is wide open for you to run riot but that is less and less the case these days.

Bigger teams are largely forced to have more of the ball these days. The problem for Mourinho is that this goes against his ethos - that having the ball puts you in danger etc. - and is a massive change from what he has been doing his whole career. With both United and now us, evidence is he is struggling to adapt. Counters/transitions no problem, Slowly making the defence on the whole more solid he can do, forced to play a bit more football though and the problems start.

I will go back again to what Gary Neville said on commentary the other night in the Everton game, as it described it perfectly. What we're seeing is just a series of one-off passes played to the next man with no reason to it. Players are just ponderous and look to have no idea as to what is being asked of them, or how we're trying to go about our work. Where we're looking to attack teams etc. Players aren't moving in harmony, responding and correlating to what others are doing to work with them, and a lot of the time there is a huge rigidity to the play, and like some players won't move out of their zone in case they're not in the position they need to be when it comes to defending. All this just adds up to what we're seeing - slow, ponderous, go nowhere football. You can blame individuals if you wish, but they need a framework to play off and give them direction, and this looks totally non-existent right now.

Mourinho promised a new style of football at United, it didn't happen. His PR team pumped out the same message here, it was lapped up by the spoofers, the desperate, and the easily duped, and it thus far looks no better. Maybe with more time, and the right signings, I'll be wrong and it all clicks, but at the moment we look about a million miles away from being a coherent team in possession and truth be told a poorly coached rabble of a side. Getting one or two (or five or six) new players isn't going to magically make things better if there is still confusion as to the game plan, such rigidity to the play, and fuck all movement.

I feared these problems when Mourinho was appointed, so thus far it doesn't shock me that we're getting what we're getting. He's got to catch up with the realities of the modern game though and find a way to coach and be more comfortable in possession of the ball. I can't lie, I don't have much faith that someone is capable of fundamentally changing their ways and ideas but he simply must and ASAP.

 

[enfieldyid]

I do not get how anyone can defend Mourinho since the restart, something he was desperate for.

Spurs in these five games have been atrocious completely lacking of ideas. We were lucky to get 3 points yesterday if it was not for a great save from Hugo we would have lost and deservedly.

Everyone agrees we are unlikely to invest, and that Levy thought Mourinho was the cheaper option.

Mourinho has too much of a chip on his shoulder to ever do anything at Spurs.

I feel sorry for the players. Poch was worn down by Levy over 5 years of feeling like he was going it completely alone and never being backed properly. Then you have Mourinho come in and act like he has the Midas touch and instruct them just about organisation.

I agree with some people who say some of our squad are not good enough, but the squad is much better than it is showing. You have two world class forwards and you do not get a shot on target against Bournemouth. Mourinho is not getting anything out of this team.

 

[Matthew]

Sorry I disagree. We didn’t “rely” on VAR. there was a clear offside and no goal. They had a huge slice of luck to avoid conceding a penalty that may wel have placed one of their feet in the door of relegation. How this penalty if given affects the game afterwards is conjecture but it is hard to argue it would.
the rest of your points I agree with largely.

okay, lloris saved us a point. whichever way its dressed up, its dreadful. and something needs to be done. i dont think sacking mou will do anything thoigh, and i truly believe 8/9 of that squad would struggle to get in any of the top 6's squads.

 

[Albertbarich]

Outside of the clear and obvious tactic of searching for Aurier down the right flank to cross it in, what really gets my goat is how apathetic we are in the opposition half and seemingly get to the penalty box without a clue of how to penetrate or even worse, get to an advanced position to only then look to play it back into our half.

This passive bollocks, multiple touch football coupled with an inability to find the final pass or dare we even ask for them to take a shot outside the penalty box is driving me nuts but of course, the $64,000 question is whether we apportion this to the managers directive or our international players not taking responsibility.

I think we all agree that a rebuild is needed. There are only two questions that matter.

1. Will levy produce?
2.is jose the right man for it?

 

[Metalhead]

It all boils down to the same thing. If he and Levy were on the same wavelength the rest would go away.

Yes and it’s a shame because they looked like a great partnership but DL calls the shots - that’s the beginning and end of it. Should Poch have been more flexible with his transfer targets? Possibly but then Klopp hasn’t done badly by not being willing to compromise. That said, Liverpool have a different setup to ours so I guess that you have to adapt to your working environment.

I like Poch - he’s a passionate guy who couldn’t hide his disillusionment with the club situation. His interviews became ever more irritable because he was asked questions that were linked to situations over which he had no control. I know that people question whether he has it in him to win trophies: I hope that he gets the chance to prove it somewhere.

 

[Spurvert]

He isn't the right manager. It is a much bigger rebuild than either he thought, he was sold, or both. Poch was right - this is painful. It will only get worse. No chance he isn't given next season, regardless of how bad it gets. Will leave with us in 7th/8th and have a range of excuses as to why he never won anything with Spurs - some will be valid, some probably won't.

 

[Metalhead]

I think we all agree that a rebuild is needed. There are only two questions that matter.

1. Will levy produce?
2.is jose the right man for it?

Do you mean Levy producing in the transfer market?

 

[Metalhead]

Yes and it’s a shame because they looked like a great partnership but DL calls the shots - that’s the beginning and end of it. Should Poch have been more flexible with his transfer targets? Possibly but then Klopp hasn’t done badly by not being willing to compromise. That said, Liverpool have a different setup to ours so I guess that you have to adapt to your working environment.

I like Poch - he’s a passionate guy who couldn’t hide his disillusionment with the club situation. His interviews became ever more irritable because he was asked questions that were linked to situations over which he had no control. I know that people question whether he has it in him to win trophies: I hope that he gets the chance to prove it somewhere.

I don’t think that he’ll have an excuse if he fails. I can’t see Levy having spun him a yarn over the transfer budget. Obviously COVID has been a hammer blow for clubs like ours where stadium revenue is so critical but that isn’t Levy’s fault in fairness.

 

[Dougal]

Yes and it’s a shame because they looked like a great partnership but DL calls the shots - that’s the beginning and end of it. Should Poch have been more flexible with his transfer targets? Possibly but then Klopp hasn’t done badly by not being willing to compromise. That said, Liverpool have a different setup to ours so I guess that you have to adapt to your working environment.

I like Poch - he’s a passionate guy who couldn’t hide his disillusionment with the club situation. His interviews became ever more irritable because he was asked questions that were linked to situations over which he had no control. I know that people question whether he has it in him to win trophies: I hope that he gets the chance to prove it somewhere.

Compromise with Levy means bringing in future deadwood in the hope that some might earn him a few quid. Poch made a stand. Levy made a decision. The potential of the club loses.

 

[Dougal]

Yeah, football fans discuss football? We're unhappy with the turgid shit being served up - we're allowed to be, and we're allowed to voice that without having to justify ourselves.

I'm getting bored of this weird childish shit you pull where you try and act like I'm some sort of bully that always makes it personal with you. You just seem to take everything to heart. I'm putting you on ignore now, because I find engaging with you an absolute chore and you're becoming fucking strange whenever you reply to me.

You're the one who started picking on me. Take the fucking day off.

Either put each other on ignore or have a candlelit dinner but don’t drag it through the threads.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Either put each other on ignore or have a candlelit dinner but don’t drag it through the threads.

Pfft putting him on ignore might mean I miss out on something of value. If he wants to be a child let him.

 

[Albertbarich]

Do you mean Levy producing in the transfer market?

Yes.

Can he shift players we don't want out and find realistic targets and get them in.

 

[morris25]

Everyone saying we have poor players. We have the 4th best squad in the league. I don't know what's wrong but there is no cohesion.