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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,904
78,639
I did say it's early days and he needs time but I do expect more from one of the greatest managers of all time. Results are obviously important and he has done well to get us winning again, my concern is that I haven't yet seen any evidence of his greatness.

I acknowledge it's early and he hasn't had a great deal of time with the players which is why he won't be really judged until probably a chunk of next season has been played. However, for my grand a year I'm expecting to be entertained and that has been in fairly short supply - the whole game against Chelsea was woeful and the first half against Brighton might actually have been worse.

He trades on his name and his reputation - many on here said they didn't want a "project manager" so yes Jose will get judged more harshly than one of those.
Other than first season at Chelsea, his best seasons came either in his second or third.

Every single coach needs time to have a real effect, not just a bounce. Even Guardiola suffered in his first year.

In fact, I tend to be more sceptical with the coaches who drastically improve form and don't seem to have any issues.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I know it's not as entertaining as we'd like it to be at the moment but we're supporters and we have to get behind the team whilst we're going through a difficult phase, no good saying let's just check the results after because the football isn't what we demand. If it's a season of more results base football so we can get top4 and be in a better position to rebuild come the summer so be it.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,900
24,810
As long as we win I really couldn't give a fuck.

Get top 4, get to the summer and let the rest take care of itself.
and I suspect this is the difference between us - I do give a fuck that the football is entertaining and decent to watch as I think you can have both quality and results - in fact the best teams have a tendency to play decent stuff - Man City, Liverpool, Man U back in the day - all entertaining to watch.

I also am not confidence that we will get to the summer and then do much differently but that's less about the manager and more about the way we have gone about things the last few years.

As I said somewhere earlier it's early days and as ever with Spurs I'm optimistic but I voted for the meh option in the original poll and haven't been convinced yet. Will see how I feel at Easter as that should be a decent amount of time on the training pitch and a transfer window.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
and I suspect this is the difference between us - I do give a fuck that the football is entertaining and decent to watch as I think you can have both quality and results - in fact the best teams have a tendency to play decent stuff - Man City, Liverpool, Man U back in the day - all entertaining to watch.

I also am not confidence that we will get to the summer and then do much differently but that's less about the manager and more about the way we have gone about things the last few years.

As I said somewhere earlier it's early days and as ever with Spurs I'm optimistic but I voted for the meh option in the original poll and haven't been convinced yet. Will see how I feel at Easter as that should be a decent amount of time on the training pitch and a transfer window.

I love entertaining football but I also understand context, the context is that we have a declining squad who looked mentally and physically, we have players who aren't focused and should have left in the summer, a team who have struggled to have a cohesive, consistent style of play all year so right now I don't really expect entertaining football, just like I didn't expect it in Poch's first season when he was implementing his ideas and shaping his squad just like I'm not gonna expect it off Jose.

If you're not confident of the summer then that's your choice, again I feel that's you're just painting a negative scenario which fulfills a negative mindset, me personally I'd rather show a bit of patience and wait, that's normally the case so I don't see why it should be any different here.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,900
24,810
I love entertaining football but I also understand context, the context is that we have a declining squad who looked mentally and physically, we have players who aren't focused and should have left in the summer, a team who have struggled to have a cohesive, consistent style of play all year so right now I don't really expect entertaining football, just like I didn't expect it in Poch's first season when he was implementing his ideas and shaping his squad just like I'm not gonna expect it off Jose.

If you're not confident of the summer then that's your choice, again I feel that's you're just painting a negative scenario which fulfills a negative mindset, me personally I'd rather show a bit of patience and wait, that's normally the case so I don't see why it should be any different here.
That's a fair reply, although many (not necessarily you) were saying how great the squad is and how Poch was massively under performing.

I guess the difference between Poch's early stuff and this (and I may be wearing rose tinted glasses here) was that Poch went on about his philosophy quite a lot and we'd seen some of what he was doing at Southampton which lead to excitement - this feels like it might be a continuation of what he had going on at Man U.

Either way it's really early into Jose's tenure and I'll continue to support him and the team.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
With Dele central to Mourinho’s plans, I can’t see us playing anything beyond a 4231. The problem with this formation for us currently is that we lack a cohesive two man midfield, whether that means a double pivot or a dedicated CDM, either way this central pairing needs fixing if we’re to become consistently good again. I’d love to see Lo Celso and Tanguy develop a partnership but that’s not happened so far. While we sacrifice the presence of a dedicated defensive midfielder, we’d gain two players who could really control the tempo and have the technical ability to beat the press and initiate quick, effective attacks. I don’t think we can keep relying on individual brilliance to pay off for us because a system of well integrated players who are largely good to very good, will almost always beat a team reliant on one or two brilliant players

With the existing personnel, especially with Lo Celso and Ndombele in their first year in England, we can't have those two playing as a pivot and play Aurier at right back. For Mourinho, doing the latter means playing a defensive left back and going to a 3-man defence when Aurier joins the attack, which he has done to great effect since the change in management. The 3-man defence only works if you have a Dier-figure to drop back and cover the defence when Aurier is forward. Ndombele and Lo Celso aren't adapted to that approach. With Wanyama not the player of old and WInks/Sissoko not really Dier-figures in that sense, we'll just have to wait until a future season to see those two starting matches together. Unless you want to drop Lucas or Son, which Mourinho certainly doesn't want to do, as they are our source of pace.

and I suspect this is the difference between us - I do give a fuck that the football is entertaining and decent to watch as I think you can have both quality and results - in fact the best teams have a tendency to play decent stuff - Man City, Liverpool, Man U back in the day - all entertaining to watch.

I also am not confidence that we will get to the summer and then do much differently but that's less about the manager and more about the way we have gone about things the last few years.

As I said somewhere earlier it's early days and as ever with Spurs I'm optimistic but I voted for the meh option in the original poll and haven't been convinced yet. Will see how I feel at Easter as that should be a decent amount of time on the training pitch and a transfer window.
There is nothing about our periods of turgid play against Brighton, Chelsea or Man Utd that I would relate to Mourinho's management. Everything about those spells looked like the uncertain, disjointed team that had left its talent in the dressing room sometime in January 2019.

When we were thrilling the country a couple of years ago, I recall a lot of people here cautioning that our cohesion was alarmingly reliant upon Eriksen. It was - and that's why Pochettino wanted to bring in Lo Celso (who is very much a direct replacement) and Ndombele. But they are still in their introductory year in England and we all know what that means for players who rely upon vision and skill, rather than power and pace: their skill-set is suppressed until they can get up to speed with the local style.

With Eriksen firing in fits and starts, only one proper defensive midfielder able to start regularly and Ndombele and Lo Celso limited to short bursts of effectiveness against most English teams, WTF do you think Mourinho should do to get the team back to its creative best? He can't. Not this season.

If Ndombele and Lo Celso prove themselves to his satisfaction, then perhaps next year we can see the kind of intuitive, stylish football we played under Pochettino on a sustained basis. In the meantime, Mourinho needs to get results and the best way to do that is to maximise the opportunities for our well-functioning attacking unit.
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
With the existing personnel, especially with Lo Celso and Ndombele in their first year in England, we can't have those two playing as a pivot and play Aurier at right back. For Mourinho, doing the latter means playing a defensive left back and going to a 3-man defence when Aurier joins the attack, which he has done to great effect since the change in management. That only works if you have a Dier-figure to drop back and cover the defence when Aurier is forward. Ndombele and Lo Celso aren't adapted to that approach. With Wanyama not the player of old and WInks/Sissoko not really Dier-figures in that sense, we'll just have to wait until a future season to see those two starting matches together. Unless you want to drop Lucas or Son, which Mourinho certainly doesn't want to do, as they are our source of pace.


There is nothing about our periods of turgid play against Brighton, Chelsea or Man Utd that I would relate to Mourinho's management. Everything about them looked like the uncertain, disjointed team that had left its talent in the dressing room sometime in January 2019.

When we were thrilling the country a couple of years ago, I recall a lot of people here cautioning that our cohesion was alarmingly reliant upon Eriksen. It was - and that's why Pochettino wanted to bring in Lo Celso (who is very much a direct replacement) and Ndombele. But they are still in their introductory year in England and we all know what that means for players who rely upon vision and skill, rather than power and pace: their skill-set is suppressed until they can get up to speed with the local style.

With Eriksen firing in fits and starts, only one proper defensive midfielder able to start regularly and Ndombele and Lo Celso limited to short bursts of effectiveness against most English teams, WTF do you think Mourinho should do to get the team back to its creative best? He can't. Not this season.

If Ndombele and Lo Celso prove themselves to his satisfaction, then perhaps next year we can see the kind of intuitive, stylish football we played under Pochettino on a sustained basis. In the meantime, he needs to get results and the best way to do that is to maximise the opportunities for our well-functioning attacking unit.
Agree with your summation of my post if we actually buy a specialised CDM of the required quality but I’m not certain we will. If we don’t, a double pivot of N’Dombele and Lo Celso might as well bed in now because Dier really isn’t up to scratch anymore and the Winks/Sissoko axis is a bit crap. Maybe a rotational dynamic of Sissoko/Ndombele/Lo Celso in the middle two is the way forward this season. We really need a right back though
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,900
24,810
With the existing personnel, especially with Lo Celso and Ndombele in their first year in England, we can't have those two playing as a pivot and play Aurier at right back. For Mourinho, doing the latter means playing a defensive left back and going to a 3-man defence when Aurier joins the attack, which he has done to great effect since the change in management. The 3-man defence only works if you have a Dier-figure to drop back and cover the defence when Aurier is forward. Ndombele and Lo Celso aren't adapted to that approach. With Wanyama not the player of old and WInks/Sissoko not really Dier-figures in that sense, we'll just have to wait until a future season to see those two starting matches together. Unless you want to drop Lucas or Son, which Mourinho certainly doesn't want to do, as they are our source of pace.


There is nothing about our periods of turgid play against Brighton, Chelsea or Man Utd that I would relate to Mourinho's management. Everything about those spells looked like the uncertain, disjointed team that had left its talent in the dressing room sometime in January 2019.

When we were thrilling the country a couple of years ago, I recall a lot of people here cautioning that our cohesion was alarmingly reliant upon Eriksen. It was - and that's why Pochettino wanted to bring in Lo Celso (who is very much a direct replacement) and Ndombele. But they are still in their introductory year in England and we all know what that means for players who rely upon vision and skill, rather than power and pace: their skill-set is suppressed until they can get up to speed with the local style.

With Eriksen firing in fits and starts, only one proper defensive midfielder able to start regularly and Ndombele and Lo Celso limited to short bursts of effectiveness against most English teams, WTF do you think Mourinho should do to get the team back to its creative best? He can't. Not this season.

If Ndombele and Lo Celso prove themselves to his satisfaction, then perhaps next year we can see the kind of intuitive, stylish football we played under Pochettino on a sustained basis. In the meantime, Mourinho needs to get results and the best way to do that is to maximise the opportunities for our well-functioning attacking unit.
You may well be right David, but I've liked what I've seen of Ndombele and I thought Lo Celso changed the game with his drive, energy and ability to actually pass to one of our own players. They need to play to get up to speed - even if it's not for the full 90 - hopefully that's what we will see from now on.

I personally think trying to shoe horn Dele, Son, Moura and Kane into the same side is overkill and would drop one of them and move to a 3 in midfield - preferably with one of Eriksen, Lamela, Ndombele or Lo Celso as any rustiness or mistakes they make would hopefully be covered. Obviously I understand that Jose is paid millions of pounds a year to manage THFC and therefore knows better than me! :LOL::LOL:
 

chelmyid

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2010
435
1,568
I did say it's early days and he needs time but I do expect more from one of the greatest managers of all time. Results are obviously important and he has done well to get us winning again, my concern is that I haven't yet seen any evidence of his greatness.

I acknowledge it's early and he hasn't had a great deal of time with the players which is why he won't be really judged until probably a chunk of next season has been played. However, for my grand a year I'm expecting to be entertained and that has been in fairly short supply - the whole game against Chelsea was woeful and the first half against Brighton might actually have been worse.

He trades on his name and his reputation - many on here said they didn't want a "project manager" so yes Jose will get judged more harshly than one of those.
I don’t agree I’m afraid mate. He trades on being a winner and presently he is doing that more than we were prior. I want the good football as well, I guess all I’m saying is give time before looking for proof to support a view. and if we’re getting the tape measures out Mines £2200 per season ??
 
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davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
Agree with your summation of my post if we actually buy a specialised CDM of the required quality but I’m not certain we will. If we don’t, a double pivot of N’Dombele and Lo Celso might as well bed in now because Dier really isn’t up to scratch anymore and the Winks/Sissoko axis is a bit crap. Maybe a rotational dynamic of Sissoko/Ndombele/Lo Celso in the middle two is the way forward this season. We really need a right back though

Perhaps a second defensive midfielder next summer. I'd be very surprised if anyone arrives next month.

Dier has a future. He just needs to get his body and fitness right again. I think playing Lo Celso and Ndombele as a double pivot this season is a recipe for haemorrhaging goals. Happy to be proved wrong, but I don't think we'll even find out.

You may well be right David, but I've liked what I've seen of Ndombele and I thought Lo Celso changed the game with his drive, energy and ability to actually pass to one of our own players. They need to play to get up to speed - even if it's not for the full 90 - hopefully that's what we will see from now on.

I'd be keen to see the bit I've put in bold. But people keep demanding that they start. Fan amnesia seems to be closely associated with first-season-in-England syndrome. Every time we get a new player from outside the country, people expect them to play well in their first season. Only the really quick ones or the really powerful ones do - and usually not even those (Son, Lucas, etc., took a year to get assimilated). Players who rely upon ball-skills and game-vision for their effectiveness just get hustled off the ball before they can do anything.

I personally think trying to shoe horn Dele, Son, Moura and Kane into the same side is overkill and would drop one of them and move to a 3 in midfield - preferably with one of Eriksen, Lamela, Ndombele or Lo Celso as any rustiness or mistakes they make would hopefully be covered. Obviously I understand that Jose is paid millions of pounds a year to manage THFC and therefore knows better than me! :LOL::LOL:

It would be a valid second option, but we know from history that Mourinho likes pace on both flanks.
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
Perhaps a second defensive midfielder next summer. I'd be very surprised if anyone arrives next month.

Dier has a future. He just needs to get his body and fitness right again. I think playing Lo Celso and Ndombele as a double pivot this season is a recipe for haemorrhaging goals. Happy to be proved wrong, but I don't think we'll even find out.



I'd be keen to see the bit I've put in bold. But people keep demanding that they start. Fan amnesia seems to be closely associated with first-season-in-England syndrome. Every time we get a new player from outside the country, people expect them to play well in their first season. Only the really quick ones or the really powerful ones do - and usually not even those (Son, Lucas, etc., took a year to get assimilated). Players who rely upon ball-skills and game-vision for their effectiveness just get hustled off the ball before they can do anything.



It would be a valid second option, but we know from history that Mourinho likes pace on both flanks.
Dier’s future is probably at CB- he’s not a CDM. Too slow and nowhere near technically good enough to make up for it
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
Dier should concentrate on being a ball playing CB able to bring the ball out of deference. We currently ( Foyth aside) have nobody doing this often
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,904
78,639
Another point to add following the defeats to Chelsea and United.

The first time Jose faced Barca at Madrid they got an absolute dressing down (5-0).

That was against possibly the greatest ever team, from then onwards he made in roads and started to get Madrid to function how he wanted, and they started to get the better of Barca.

I don't think we can read into anything other than this isn't a team playing how Mourinho really wants yet and those defeats are not a good measure.
 

Giovanni

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,587
3,614
Dier should concentrate on being a ball playing CB able to bring the ball out of deference. We currently ( Foyth aside) have nobody doing this often

His passing accuracy and range is nowhere near high enough for that. Other than rolling it across the backline to his fellow cb he has nothing. He would just be a poor mans maguire (not that maguire is eorld class anyway, just the same type of cb)
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
Dier should concentrate on being a ball playing CB able to bring the ball out of deference. We currently ( Foyth aside) have nobody doing this often

Dier will never be a good enough CB.

The most important aspect of all is he doesn’t want to play CB. That aside, he has a poor reading of the game. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker. He is prone to gaffes and lapses of concentration, playing hospital passes. It’s offensive to other top CBs who play there week in week out in their early years to learn the position to suggest that Dier could just drop back into CB at the age of 25 after playing a handful of games in his senior career and all of a sudden be CL quality level which is what we need and expect.
 
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