Jose Mourinho

[Dr Benson]

Jose said in his first interview, that we would probably play quite similar as before. And I think we did. We scored many goals in the majority of the games before Kane was injured, didn't we? And we were attacking a lot. Now Mourinho obviously feels that the only way to play under these circumstances with injuries on key players, is to play this defensively oriented anti-football. But will we continue to play that way when Kane and Son is back? Or is this just a temporary solution?

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

No, this is what you really hope will happen...do u think Levy gives a shit what whinging fans on the internet think, or is he more concerned with the stuff that actually matters right now? ie points accumulated.
All he's said is we haven't got any fit strikers, completely factually accurate.
U should stop making things up, it's a bit weird as an adult.

What am I making up.. If you had a employee working for you who was forever making subtle digs at you from all angles, you probably will start to get pissed off. Do you honestly think Levy and Lewis are that ignorant not to notice this, because I'm pretty sure they are.
You come across as a condescending twat, assuming that I'm an adult by the way.

 

[Gb160]

What am I making up.. If you had a employee working for you who was forever making subtle digs at you from all angles, you probably will start to get pissed off. Do you honestly think Levy and Lewis are that ignorant not to notice this, because I'm pretty sure they are.
You come across as a condescending twat, assuming that I'm an adult by the way.

No need to get salty mate.
Where are these digs he's making? I read it as just being completely honest about the situation we're currently in.

 

[CowInAComa]

Perception is a funny thing isnt it.

If you constantly bemoan and slag off our squad, all the players, declare them a bunch of talentless lumpers who cant possible pass the ball around, cry about not signing anyone in 2018 , blame everything on levy, winks, vertonghen, dier, a.n.other, (delete as appropriate) our suddenly old and apparently decrepid squad, our 3 injuries, the stadium, poch's training schedule, and probably winks again, over and over and over and over incessantly you are a good supporter and get to give churchillian speeches about just what makes you a great supporter.

If you arent happy with Joses tactics and excuses and think we are a lot better than we are being told, and the style we are trying to implement doesnt do our very talented personnel justice - (and even maybe point out we actually brought a fucking bunch of players in the last couple of windows to refresh the squad) and maybe lets have a go at playing football instead of crying and throwing in the towel, then you are a bad NEGATIVE supporter.


Funny old game innit. You can whine about everything and everyone, and be a hero. But dont dare mention you dont like the tactics or that perhaps Jose is needlessly hamming our demise up a bit...

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

No need to get salty mate.
Where are these digs he's making? I read it as just being completely honest about the situation we're currently in.

I think we have very differing views on Mourinho, and we probably will struggle to find common ground, but I respect your opinion.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

You come across as a condescending twat, assuming that I'm an adult by the way.

TBF it's not an assumption I made

 

[Shadydan]

What am I making up.. If you had a employee working for you who was forever making subtle digs at you from all angles, you probably will start to get pissed off. Do you honestly think Levy and Lewis are that ignorant not to notice this, because I'm pretty sure they are.
You come across as a condescending twat, assuming that I'm an adult by the way.

What digs has Jose aimed at ENIC\Levy?

 

[Gb160]

I think we have very differing views on Mourinho, and we probably will struggle to find common ground, but I respect your opinion.

Fair enough, just thought I'd missed some quotes or something.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

*Long post alert*

I'll be repeating a lot of what I said over the weekend, but it gets me out of doing some work so why not. Anyhow, once again to pick out this post and others with similar sentiments, why was this to be expected with what's available?

Just pick apart the options available in the squad:

Defence

Aurier - His instinct, in addition to the current tactics, is to bomb forward. Positionally isn't great and prone to switching off, some weeks does the job many weeks doesn't.

Alderweireld - Past it. Reduced to slow, timid, passive defending. Some weeks does ok, this is by no means a given though anymore.

Vertonghen - Definitely past it.

Sanchez - Not perfect, not the finished article yet, but a decent robust option.

Foyth - Barely seen these days but he's an option so we'll include him. A very raw defender learning his trade (who many Spurs fans will argue will never be good enough). In any case, he's an attack minded, ball playing centre back bought for the sort of team that enjoys the vast majority of the ball, dominating proceedings and wanting centre backs to play out and get involved in play.

Tanganga - Robust, athletic, versatile, keen as mustard. But also a total rookie who will, and has, made errors.

Davies - At this best a steady eddie. But however he is going, lets be honest as soon as anyone runs at him there is a big problem and he is often badly exposed.


Other defensive-minded players/options

Dier - At his best can sit and screen the defence. 2020 version of him though is really struggling and his mobility has declined so much that midfield no longer looks an option for him.

Wanyama - Common consensus is totally finished after numerous injuries. Disappeared from the squad and the club has been trying to offload him since last summer.

Sessegnon - Versatile option down the left flank. No one, including those at the club apparently, knows what his best/long term role is. Can play left back, but as an attack minded one and is also a rookie when it comes to defensive nous.


Quick summary - some options there, how many in present condition are reliable though in terms of a defensive, safety first, soak up pressure approach? Sanchez, possibly Davies, possibly on a good day Alderweireld and Aurier. With a rookie in Tanganga. That's not much.......

Then we have:


Midfielders

Sissoko - Nearly included him in defensive options, but I don't think he is. Will run around all day for you, can disrupt play, positionally isn't very good and his use is to get stuck into players rather than sit and screen in a low block.

Winks - Neat and tidy ball playing midfielder. The defensive aspect is the weaker part of his game, but what can he do in regards to this? Well he is tenacious, reasonably quick and mobile, and can and has demonstrated ability to press aggressively and win the ball back in decent areas higher up the pitch.

Lo Celso - More attacking ball playing midfielder. Like Winks his defensive qualities are being tenacious and not afraid to muck in, will and can press the opposition and disrupt play and win the ball back earlier, but not his forte to screen the defence.

Ndombele - Common consensus seems to be that his attitude and aptitude for the defensive side of things is......… lacking. Not seen any evidence he is a viable candidate to sit and screen in a low block.

Gedson - Not someone we know a huge amount about, nor have been able to conclude much in his outings so far. Seems a fairly mobile, versatile player but by all accounts a more attack minded player.

Skipp - A smidgen more robust and tenacious version of Winks. He is still a rookie though and from what I have seen of him coming through the system isn't really an out and out true sitting midfielder who will shield the back four.


Attackers/Wide players

Alli - Will drop in and do a job in midfield. Usually at the expense of anything from him going forward though.

Lamela - Gives 200% when we don't have the ball, but is only instinct is to chase, harry, and get about the opposition. Cant really be trusted to tuck back in on a flank and make the 'two banks of four' or whatever we are going with.

Son - Tries to get back and help do defensive duties on his flank. Quite often not very good at it though, and this only gets magnified more and more in a low block system in behind the ball. Just not someone who would spring to mind as a good 'defensive winger'.

Moura - Utterly random footballer. If the ball is in his immediate vicinity he will try his heart out to compete for it, but in general he has nearly zero nous or ability to read a game or be proactive in what's happening around him and getting in the right positions, this includes when we dont have the ball. Cannot be trusted to defend a flank.

Bergwijn - Early days, but most of what has been said in regards to other wide players I'd apply to him too on the little evidence thus far.



Now with Mourinho style football, both his park the bus extreme stuff and the more usual low-ish block to draw the opposition out and then quick counters, this requires a lot of individual quality, and that's just defensively before we even get on to what you do with the ball. Very good pure defenders. Because you have to be able to soak up pressure and have a very disciplined two banks of four, at the minimum back four and cm2.

As I've done, on paper does that look a suitable approach to go with? For the 'defensive' players you have a mix of declining or declined, rookies, and possibly a couple of solid reliable options.

Then you have a couple of attack minded fullbacks, a Sissoko, small ball playing midfielders whose only real defensive abilities are to press and nick in, not sit, and attacking players who also want to have the ball at their feet and are not diligent and probably don't have the ability in getting back in behind the ball.

With this post I've largely tried to just focus on defending/without the ball, and the state of play regarding options. I'm constantly scratching my head at the claims we have to play this way, when most of the squad is just totally ill-suited to it. It's no wonder we don't look defensively secure at all. Like fuck is this the optimal way to play with the squad at our disposal.

But then reality has to kick in. Lets be honest, we're playing this way because Mourinho wants us to. It's what he does, what he knows, what he believes in. Now, whether I personally agree with it or not or it fits my footballing tastes and ideas, I think it's entirely possible he could have success in future with us and he gets to shape the squad in his image etc. Right now he is effectively shoe-horning his approach onto mostly unsuited players and it is no surprise we look a bit of a mess and, again lets be honest, stole some results that have given some mask to performances. With these players, what we do in the defensive aspect isn't going to change for however long they last at the club. It's more suited, I'd argue as set out above, to playing a different way but that is never going to happen as we're off down a different path and the squad will be changed to reflect this.

Agree with all this.

I've referenced this before but essentially we've gone from a team that is set up to play proactively, press and be on the front foot to the exact opposite - reactive, counter-attacking and passive. And it's making us look like a shambles. In fact, I believe, part of the reason Jan and Toby look so slow is because they've been used to playing right up against their attacker in a high press. Now they're being asked to defend in wide open spaces with attackers getting a run on them and it's leaving them vulnerable.

If Mourinho could just be a bit more flexible and value possession more it would give us a better chance with the current squad. Not having striking options shouldn't mean we stop being able to pass the ball, press or create chances.

 

[arunspurs]

I am not calling for Jose’s head and I am willing to give him time.

However, what baffles me is just now negative he is. For a serial winner, he has such a negative attitude.

I feel like the great sportsmen in history would never make such excuses. They would remain focused and positive.

I am told he is a master psychologist. How does banging this negative drum help us? He is basically saying to the players - you are doing me so proud. I don’t expect you to be able to win any games this season. It’s impossible to win without Kane and Son.

I am going to find it hard to listen to this for another two months.

Problem is not Jose or his negative press conferences. He didnt put us into this mess.
He didn't create contract mess with Eriksen. He handled it brilliantly. He eased Lo Celso into games and helped with gain confidence. Now ,not many talks about Eriksen.When we had Rose LB issues & Davies injury, he had the guts to give chance to Tanganga against Liverpool. Tanganga has been a revelation till now. Improved Aurier. Our defense were/are a issue but atleast when he took over, first 7 games we scored 20 goals, almost 3 a game. We were playing well with decent style

We were then hit by Sissoko & Kane injury. He did not say any excuse but after a temporary loss of Son with red, he got him on board and Son was going well. Now with Son also out, I am sure he will find a solution. But at the same time, he has to let out steam. With just 3 months under the job state we were in when he came, contract rebels, number of injuries he has to endure, he has done a reasonably good job.
Yes, there were some luck in some games, but who doesnt. I would argue Liverpool played better football last season than this.

We have now 7 days to next game against Wolves. Wolves go to the Europa League game. I will bet , we will work and Jose will find a solution to make us win. But fans has got to be on board with him till end of summer.

 

[Spurs Lodge Kittens]

I'm not quite sure what people want. Jose to make this team play like it did under Poch (essentially a bit of slow, non penetrating keep ball) for the last year and average 1pt per game, while having no strikers?

I'm amazed how foggy people's memories have become because of the Champions League Final, enabling them to forget how badly we'd performing for a while before he came on board.

It's not pretty and it is frustrating but we literally have no recognised striker and that's not on him. Despite a few bad performances before Kane's injury (Chelsea at home, Man U away etc) we generally were doing the business in a more direct, successful manner than Poch had certainly achieved this season bar 45 minutes against Palace.

 

[Shadydan]

Agree with all this.

I've referenced this before but essentially we've gone from a team that is set up to play proactively, press and be on the front foot to the exact opposite - reactive, counter-attacking and passive. And it's making us look like a shambles. In fact, I believe, part of the reason Jan and Toby look so slow is because they've been used to playing right up against their attacker in a high press. Now they're being asked to defend in wide open spaces with attackers getting a run on them and it's leaving them vulnerable.

If Mourinho could just be a bit more flexible and value possession more it would give us a better chance with the current squad. Not having striking options shouldn't mean we stop being able to pass the ball, press or create chances.

I would have said that our cb's would have dealt with more when we played an open expansive game under Poch, more 1on1s less running, less covering etc...And it wasn't as if we were high a pressing team in the last year's of Pochball, we started to sit back in a lot of matches in 2018/19.

Truth of the matter is both Belgians have been on a steady decline for some time now, Toby since last season, Jan since the summer. Sanchez and Japhet look much more capable than them do to just the basic stuff.

 

[kaz Hirai]

I'm not quite sure what people want. Jose to make this team play like it did under Poch (essentially a bit of slow, non penetrating keep ball) for the last year and average 1pt per game, while having no strikers?

I'm amazed how foggy people's memories have become because of the Champions League Final, enabling them to forget how badly we'd performing for a while before he came on board.

It's not pretty and it is frustrating but we literally have no recognised striker and that's not on him. Despite a few bad performances before Kane's injury (Chelsea at home, Man U away etc) we generally were doing the business in a more direct, successful manner than Poch had certainly achieved this season bar 45 minutes against Palace.

No probably just reminiscing about how strong and superior we were to majority of teams at home and abroad for the majority of the last managers entire run and not focusing on his last 12 months in charge when he self admittedly lost his passion for the job
All these fallen dominoes because we thought we could take the utter piss out of Aston villa and disrespect them because they were in serious financial trouble
What an alternate timeline

 

[allatsea]

No probably just reminiscing about how strong and superior we were to majority of teams at home and abroad for the majority of the last managers entire run and not focusing on his last 12 months in charge when he self admittedly lost his passion for the job
All these fallen dominoes because we thought we could take the utter piss out of Aston villa and disrespect them because they were in serious financial trouble
What an alternate timeline

Feel sorry for Poch if you want but his losing his passion for the job meant Mourinho was handed a real mess to sort out. On top of that mess he has serious injuries to very key players most importantly our main strikers. Strikers win matches. Ask Arsenal how they would be doing without Aubameyang.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Feel sorry for Poch if you want but his losing his passion for the job meant Mourinho was handed a real mess to sort out. On top of that mess he has serious injuries to very key players most importantly our main strikers. Strikers win matches. Ask Arsenal how they would be doing without Aubameyang.

So we are a Harry Kane team ?

 

[dudu]

Agree with all this.

I've referenced this before but essentially we've gone from a team that is set up to play proactively, press and be on the front foot to the exact opposite - reactive, counter-attacking and passive. And it's making us look like a shambles. In fact, I believe, part of the reason Jan and Toby look so slow is because they've been used to playing right up against their attacker in a high press. Now they're being asked to defend in wide open spaces with attackers getting a run on them and it's leaving them vulnerable.

If Mourinho could just be a bit more flexible and value possession more it would give us a better chance with the current squad. Not having striking options shouldn't mean we stop being able to pass the ball, press or create chances.

I think you miss something crucial in between -

We hadn't been playing a proactive pressing style for ages.

In fact, Poch himself was trying to implement a new playing style and had been for the entire season before he was sacked.

We pressed and won the ball back numerous times on Saturday but we actually were very very poor on the ball.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Turning out exactly how I thought it would under him and it's only going to get worse.

" #thfc chairman Daniel Levy was blown away by Jose Mourinho after holding talks with the manager. Jose Mourinho claimed he has spent his time away from management developing a new strategy and philosophy. [Independent] "

My fucking arse he did. He's a negative reactive manager, always has been and always will be. The guys a busted flush who's hoodwinked Levy and now we're stuck with this has been. The best managers find solutions to problems/injury crisis not use them as excuses. He's talked us down so much you lot seem to think we're Stevenge fucking Borough.

I pray to god Levy inserted a break clause for the end of this season and fucks him off as we're heading only one way with this dinosaur and it most certainly ain't up!!!

 

[chelmyid]

That sir is the post

Ahhh I said I didn't want to do it but seen as Poch's comparisons are going on I'll do it.

August

Started with a 1-0 win over West Ham. Not a great performance but was a very satisfying win to start with. Followed by a hammering of a very weak QPR (4-0). But then got completely exposed with the high press by Liverpool at home, losing 3-0.

Very mixed start but you could see we were miles away from the Poch team that was to come. Many many flaws in the team.

September

Next up, a travel up north to play an awful Sunderland side that ended in a 2-2 draw. Again a very indifferent performance, very similar to the AVB era. We then got embarrassed at home, losing 0-1 to WBA, before we managed to scrape a draw at Arsenal.

6 points from 6 games so far, not a lot to be excited about, still, early days. Although I do recall many saying the club screwed up getting Poch when bigger coaches were available.

October

Started with a decent 1-0 win against Southampton - although I don't really recall this game or performance. However, it's important to note that Poch was mixing up his starting 11 game by game. Players like Kane and Dembele still on the bench, Chiriches in and out of the team.

Then consequently got hammered 4-1 by City.....and then beaten 2-1 at home by Newcastle.

9 points from 9 games and not looking great at all! This is around about the time the cries for Kane to start started.

November

Next came that famous Villa game with Kane scoring the late winner but the performance was still largely poor and once again it was real concerning to see us plug away and look lacklustre and out of ideas.

The strange thing is that so many people refer this to Poch's turning point. Well, we lost 2-1 at home to Stoke and I think this may have been the real turning point in terms of certain players no longer being trusted (Kaboul, Adebayor, Capoue). Back to back wins for the first time vs Hull and Everton gave us some hope again.

18 points from 13. Poch's best month yet with 3 wins.

December

Started with a 3-0 spanking vs Mourinho's Chelsea, however the performance was quite promising. Drew with Palace in a pretty drab affair but then beat Swansea, Burnley and Leicester all 2-1 as we started to find momemtum. The performances were hardly stellar, but little signs were there. Lamela was impressing, Kane was scoring and Dembele was finding his way.

We drew 0-0 with United to finish the year with 29 points from 19 games. So very similar to this season.

January

Incredible 5-3 win vs Chelsea to start the year. The attack started to form but we still had issues as we were humbled by Crystal Palace 2-1. Scraped a 2-1 win vs Sunderland but got k'od in the FA Cup vs Leicester. Made damn hard work of beating a tier 3 Sheffield United to reach the final of the League Cup. Finished by beating WBA 3-0, first real accomplished performance since Poch walked in the door.

So 38 points from 23 games and whilst there was certainly improvements, Poch was still having difficulty overcoming dogged teams and the team were still capable of a bad defeat. But this month Poch had started to really define his team - 6 months after first starting with them.

February

Beat Arsenal with a great display but lost a silly game against Liverpool 3-2 to show many weaknesses defensively. Very lucky to draw 2-2 with West Ham after being 2 down and playing awfully. Also got knocked out of the Europa by an average Fiorentina.

42 points from 26 games and still a long way from looking like a consistent team. There was still a lot of doubts about Poch and the team and most of the focus was on how special Kane was and how lucky we were to have got him. Although there were some promising signs. But we'd all been here before.

March

Got schooled in the league cup final by Jose. But beat Swansea and QPR to keep the optimism rolling. Although a 3-0 hammering by Van Gaals United had many wondering if we'd picked the wrong coach. We finished the month with an uncomfortable 4-3 win vs Leicester at home. Still, 3 wins out of 4.

51 points from 30 games and most were wondering if we could sneak top 4 in spite of our inability to avoid a poor defeat every 3 or 4 games.

April

Put in a horrible performance to draw 0-0 with Burnley (Paulinho game) and got humiliated against an awful 10-men Villa team, losing 1-0 at home. Beat Newcastle 3-1 and drew 2-2 against Southampton. 5 points from 4 games amidst some pretty abject performances.

56 points from 34 games and still not sure what to think of Pochettino's Tottenham. Could look very decent and intense one moment, the next completely bereft of ideas and toothless.

May

Final month of the season with still a slight chance of CL qualification. But that proved to be more hope as we lost 1-0 to City without putting a mark on them and then got humiliated losing 3-0 vs Stoke - of all teams. Finished the season beating Hull and Everton to secure Europa, although the team were pretty much coasting by that point.

64 points and 5th place finish. We were close but never really close enough to CL qualification and other than a good bit of form from late December to February, the team were far from looking special.

The odd stellar performance every now and again but it was a very tough watch most of the season. A lot of wins by one goal, showed that the team were just scraping by and finding each game a slog. Poch was identifying the foundations and still understanding his best 11, right up until the summer of 2015. Trying to get the team to buy into the press and identify those who were incapable.

In fact, this followed on into the next season. We lost to United, drew with Stoke, Leicester and Everton squeezed past Sunderland in the first two months. All far from convincing, looking quite toothless all the while. Some time after it all clicked and we became the monster team we all loved.

The point I'm making is that it took a hell of a long time for Poch to really work his magic and the first 14 months or so were pretty rocky, good performance, average performance then poor performance. Different 11 week in week out. It was really hard to see the direction we were headed but because Poch was given time he was able to really imprint his style onto the team and get everyone on board.

Jose needs similar time and trust. I see some similarities, average performances, some good results, some bad results, certain players looking finished, some lacking form and belief. We just need to be very patient.

That sir is the post I wish I had the time to write

which fully supports the sane logic of giving mourinho until end of next season before judgement is passed

massive kudos to you

 

[matthew.absurdum]

Turning out exactly how I thought it would under him and it's only going to get worse.

" #thfc chairman Daniel Levy was blown away by Jose Mourinho after holding talks with the manager. Jose Mourinho claimed he has spent his time away from management developing a new strategy and philosophy. [Independent] "

My fucking arse he did. He's a negative reactive manager, always has been and always will be. The guys a busted flush who's hoodwinked Levy and now we're stuck with this has been. The best managers find solutions to problems/injury crisis not use them as excuses. He's talked us down so much you lot seem to think we're Stevenge fucking Borough.

I pray to god Levy inserted a break clause for the end of this season and fucks him off as we're heading only one way with this dinosaur and it most certainly ain't up!!!

Have you read the recent replies in this thread yet? I hope they could make you feel better about Jose

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I would have said that our cb's would have dealt with more when we played an open expansive game under Poch, more 1on1s less running, less covering etc...And it wasn't as if we were high a pressing team in the last year's of Pochball, we started to sit back in a lot of matches in 2018/19.

Truth of the matter is both Belgians have been on a steady decline for some time now, Toby since last season, Jan since the summer. Sanchez and Japhet look much more capable than them do to just the basic stuff.

When you play a low block you essentially let the opposition attack have the ball in space in front of you and allow them to turn and run. Poch's philosopy was always to have the defence push right up onto the opposition attack so they couldn't run. I agree that the press wasn't as prominent in the last part of Poch's reign but the overall structure and intention was still there.

Now with a low block the defence are being asked to be reactive when a player gets into their territory rather than being on top of them. So Toby/Jan are looking slower as their not so close to their man when there is an attack. Yes Jan has clearly declined but I don't think it is a coincidence that the drop off has looked so stark since Jose has started parking the bus.