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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

Dr Benson

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
465
569
I dont think we have played reactive anti-football under Mourinho so far (with the last games as exceptions). Off course our opponents have dominated many of the games, but I don`t think it has been a chosen strategy to keep the block low, but more that our defense and DMs have been under pressure and thus defending has come as a natural consequense.

Mourinho has played 4-5-1 with four attacking players. We have scored quite many goals in many of his games so far. I don`t think we yet can come to the conclusion that we are going to play anti-football in the future. But, Mourinho is pragmatic and is willing to play anti-football if that`s what it takes to win the games. And right now it might be whats necessary. If he continues with that kind of tactics and style of play after Sonny and Kane are back, he`s finished.
 
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Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,000
18,943
I'm going to add that building a new philosophy and playing to that takes time. It's not a 3 month thing. It wasn't for Poch, Klopp and countless coaches before them.

We played with 5 attacking players on the weekend that had never played together competitively before.

You might not like or want Joses philosophy but at least wait and see what it is going to actually be before you say you don't want it. You haven't really even seen it yet.

We didn't play with 5 attacking players at the weekend.

We played the most negative 5-4-1 you can imagine and basically had Bergwijn completely isolated up top, Lo Celso stuck out wide tracking back and with both wing backs as defensive full backs not wing backs.

That was a large part of the problem.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,355
87,831
tenor.gif
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
We didn't play with 5 attacking players at the weekend.

We played the most negative 5-4-1 you can imagine and basically had Bergwijn completely isolated up top, Lo Celso stuck out wide tracking back and with both wing backs as defensive full backs not wing backs.

That was a large part of the problem.

I think you're focusing on the wrong part of what I am saying personally.

I have rewatched the game and I don't think the tactics were as negative as is being made out.

We were pressing high, we were trying to move the ball forward with speed while drawing the Chelsea defenders out to leave space in behind.

Our problem was that with the ball, we were awful.

Winks, Lo Celso and Ndomebele, all of whom I am fans of, were atrocious with the ball and essentially killed us every single time we were on the front foot. It was very frustrating.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,000
18,943
I think you're focusing on the wrong part of what I am saying personally.

I have rewatched the game and I don't think the tactics were as negative as is being made out.

We were pressing high, we were trying to move the ball forward with speed while drawing the Chelsea defenders out to leave space in behind.

Our problem was that with the ball, we were awful.

Winks, Lo Celso and Ndomebele, all of whom I am fans of, were atrocious with the ball and essentially killed us every single time we were on the front foot. It was very frustrating.

If you think we pressed high then we definitely watched a different game. Our wing backs pretty much never left their own half and as a team we were soooo deep, hence the analysis from Ferdinand, Crouch and Gudjohnsen highlighting this. The reason those players struggled (Winks, Lo Celso, Ndombele) is because Lo Celso was stuck out wide on the flank tracking runners, with Winks and Ndombele left completely outnumbered 2 to 4 against Kovacic, Jorginho, Barkley and Mount.

We were awful with the ball because we never had any attacking options or structure to keep the ball or progress it.

I'm not sure there is much else to say though as I think we have just interpreted the match completely differently.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
If you think we pressed high then we definitely watched a different game. Our wing backs pretty much never left their own half and as a team we were soooo deep, hence the analysis from Ferdinand, Crouch and Gudjohnsen highlighting this. The reason those players struggled (Winks, Lo Celso, Ndombele) is because Lo Celso was stuck out wide on the flank tracking runners, with Winks and Ndombele left completely outnumbered 2 to 4 against Kovacic, Jorginho, Barkley and Mount.

We were awful with the ball because we never had any attacking options or structure to keep the ball or progress it.

I'm not sure there is much else to say though as I think we have just interpreted the match completely differently.

I posted a number of clips from the game- I never said everyone was pressing high but our front players were.

Here is an example. Winning the ball back, Bergwijn laying it off the midfield whose job it was to then play it forward quickly and look for the runners.

This happened a few times but we failed to capitalise because we were so poor on the ball, even with all the relative time in the world.

1.gif
 

Dr Benson

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
465
569
Ironically, it seems that this tactic can only works with kane and son. Complete forward and a counter attack master.
Yes, you`re probably right. But I actually find counter attacking football quite entertaining as long as there are plenty of the counter attacks. To watch us pressing high against an opponent which keep their block low, and we use 40 attempts to score a goal isn`t always fun to watch either. If we can play an attacking style with high pressure against weaker teams, and counter attacking football against our stronger opponents and actually win some trophies, I will be satisfied.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,000
18,943
I posted a number of clips from the game- I never said everyone was pressing high but our front players were.

Here is an example. Winning the ball back, Bergwijn laying it off the midfield whose job it was to then play it forward quickly and look for the runners.

This happened a few times but we failed to capitalise because we were so poor on the ball, even with all the relative time in the world.

View attachment 63784

An isolated clip winning the ball around the halfway line isn't really pressing high though mate, it just shows how deep we were in the first place.

And the fact remains as I said that we went with a structure where we basically had 2 CMs against their 4 central players and had a completely isolated attack and midfield that were so poorly structured they couldn't consistently retain possession and progress the ball because we simply didn't have the shape and numbers in attack to do so.
 

Dr Benson

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
465
569
I posted a number of clips from the game- I never said everyone was pressing high but our front players were.

Here is an example. Winning the ball back, Bergwijn laying it off the midfield whose job it was to then play it forward quickly and look for the runners.

This happened a few times but we failed to capitalise because we were so poor on the ball, even with all the relative time in the world.

View attachment 63784
Yes, but isn`t that kind of called counter attacking football? Or semi-counter attack? Or a hybrid?
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
An isolated clip winning the ball around the halfway line isn't really pressing high though mate, it just shows how deep we were in the first place.

And the fact remains as I said that we went with a structure where we basically had 2 CMs against their 4 central players and had a completely isolated attack and midfield that were so poorly structured they couldn't consistently retain possession and progress the ball because we simply didn't have the shape and numbers in attack to do so.

There are other clips too. Moura, Lo Celso, Bergwijn, all tying to win the ball in those areas and start a counter.

I apologise, high pressing was the wrong description to use, but our plan failed because we were dreadful with the ball 90% of the time we had it in any kind of attacking sense.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
There are other clips too. Moura, Lo Celso, Bergwijn, all tying to win the ball in those areas and start a counter.

I apologise, high pressing was the wrong description to use, but our plan failed because we were dreadful with the ball 90% of the time we had it in any kind of attacking sense.

Do you not think that Jose done absolutely nothing to redress the balance in midfield? They had basically a square of Kovacic, Jorginho, Mount and Barkley smothering Winks and Ndombele. While we had 5 players in our back line marking Giroud. With Lo Celso and Lucas tracking their wingbacks.

Could we not have adopted a different plan when it was clear the 541 wasn't working?
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Do you not think that Jose done absolutely nothing to redress the balance in midfield? They had basically a square of Kovacic, Jorginho, Mount and Barkley smothering Winks and Ndombele. While we had 5 players in our back line marking Giroud. With Lo Celso and Lucas tracking their wingbacks.

Could we not have adopted a different plan when it was clear the 541 wasn't working?

I think he should have changed it up for sure, but we would have still needed to improve vastly with the ball for it to be worthwhile. A lot of people are giving the players a pass for their performances on Saturday when I saw us have enough opportunities with the ball where players were not overrun with Chelsea personnel that we simply wasted.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
Does anybody feel like me in that Tim Sherwood after his spell at Tottenham and how it failed abysmally should keep his mouth shut about Mourinho . Even tho he might be right in his assessment if you put his management CV alongside Jose's CV there just is nothing to compare
Because as a manager Sherwood has achieved nothing and a bit of respect would not go amiss.
It just confirms my opinion of Sherwood he is a Knobhead .
 
D

Deleted member 29446

Does anybody feel like me in that Tim Sherwood after his spell at Tottenham and how it failed abysmally should keep his mouth shut about Mourinho . Even tho he might be right in his assessment if you put his management CV alongside Jose's CV there just is nothing to compare
Because as a manager Sherwood has achieved nothing and a bit of respect would not go amiss.
It just confirms my opinion of Sherwood he is a Knobhead .
No.

And if you read the article and watched the game instead of being personal towards Tim you would know he’s right.
 
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