Jose Mourinho

[Everlasting Seconds]

a) The thing is though this way of playing doesn't conserve energy, I also don't think it's any less intense than Poch's. Everyone is expected to get in behind the ball, have to keep shuffling about and tracking and staying organised, so physically are using energy, mentally this is tiring too, and then certain players like Moura, Alli, Bergwijn etc. are then expected as soon as we win the ball to hurtle forward length of the pitch, then when we lose it get back in behind the ball again. Trust me, that is really fucking tiring to be doing that over and over and over.

Well...the idea is, now I'm not saying the idea works well at this point because we have a thin squad of squeezed players, but the idea is that to reduce the time spent in-game on re-organising between defensive and attacking systems. Rather than winning the ball - re-organising the team - attacking - dropping the ball - re-organising the team - defending and so on and so forth, the idea is to contain the shape proactively so that all that time organising the team is reduced, and it looks more like defend - attack - defend - attack without intermediary steps of obtaining various shapes and structures. Now, it's easy to say but hard to do, because it presupposes a certain level of excellence throughout that just isn't present.

One of the things I did notice yesterday was the almost complete lack of pressing in their half for a good hour. Yes that concerns me as much as anyone, and if we are seeing the same come November, then questions need to be answered or a change will need to inevitably be made.

Once again well ... the idea is to press. It's a different way of pressing than having Lamela stress the opponent high up the pitch until they lose the ball and both teams must start over. It's a sort of a press that aims at winning the ball back at a time when the opponent is unstable, not when they still are stable in their defensive shape.

 

[Ossie85]

You do realise that Norwich dropped deeper at the end of the game which enabled us to push on, thats the simple fact. Ossie, you were a big advocate of Poch so when we only got 24 points from 25 games and playing the most horrendous football, was that totally on Poch, because people back then were blaming Levy instead?

It's just the mood swings in here that can give you whiplash. Poch was a likeable character so it was all Levys fault we were playing badly, Mourinho isn't so likeable so now its suddenly all his fault. Can people make up their mind? I even remember post after post after post saying that Levy is at fault for getting rid of our best manager since Bill Nic! We seem to have a number of posters who tailor their points to suit their own agenda. If you look at our squad simplistically its like this:

Goalkeepers:
- Lloris - Injured most of the season.
- Gazza - An ok number 2.
- Vorm - No more needs to be said.

Full Backs:
- Rose - Out of form, ageing, has left the club.
- Davies - Injured most of the season.
- Sessegnon - A young kid still learning his trade. Injured.
- KWP - Ultimately not good enough, has left the club.
- Aurier - Erratic at best.
- Tanganga - A young kid still learning his trade.

Centre Backs:
- Vertonghen - Has aged very fast and appears a shadow of his former self.
- Alderweireld - Struggling a bit this season, not the player we had a few years back.
- Sanchez - A good player but he needs a strong partner.
- Foyth - Injured most of the season.

Centre Mids:
- Sissoko - Been out for most of the time Mourinho has been here.
- Ndombele - Has struggled in the new league with fitness issues.
- Lo Celso - Been injured a lot, is starting to show his class.
- Winks - A tidy little player but not a world beater.
- Dier - Has been injured for the best part of a year.
- Skipp - A young kid still learning his trade.
- Gedson - Only just joined us.
- Wanyama - Injured constantly, left the club.

Attacking Mids:
- Lamela - Injury prone, plays one game & is out for 2.
- Alli - A shadow of his former self for 18 months now.
- Lucas - Tries hard but ultimately not good enough.
- Bergwijn - Only just joined us.
- Son - Injured for the rest of the season.
- Eriksen - Out of form, eventually left the club.

Strikers:
- Kane - Out for the rest of the season.
- Parrott - A young kid learning his trade.

So basically, if you take the emotion out of it you can see that we have had Lloris, Davies, Sessegnon, Dier, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sissoko, Wanyama, Lamela, Son & Kane injured for large parts of the season and these are all of our key players. Add that to generally a poor defence with zero defensive midfielder and some young players, then it paints a clear picture that this squad needs to be reinforced heavily and no manager would truly be able to get essentially 13 players to play 2 games a week constantly with no focal point to our attacks.

That's 11 players we have had out for large parts of this season aswell as losing Rose, KWP, Wanyama & Eriksen.

We need to stop the hyperbole that is constantly trotted out in here & just accept that this is the way its going to be till the end of the season. If people feel as strongly as their posts suggest (with some people making outlandish statements) then they should be camping outside of Hotspur Way with banners. I guess that won't happen as it's really easy to be a keyboard warrior, but less so to actually make a stand.

Final bit, I loved Poch and in my lifetime he is my favourite manager and he was let down by the players ultimately, and once again these same players are blameless in making yet another manager look average. Our anger, disappointment, sadness shouldn't be aimed at the guy who took over 13 weeks ago (thats all it is), it should be at the players who can't even do the very basic thing of passing to eachother successfully.

Sorry the long rant, Ossie I kind of used your post to write this

All good points, and I'm not conveniently leaving them out, but we should do better.
Even at the state we are, if you make a comparison with Norwich's first team, we have much much better players.
Everything that you said would be fair for the games against chelsea, city, liverpool, but not Norwich or Southampton, or Aston Villa. Even with all those players you mentioned being out, we have enough to be better than those teams

 

[WalkerboyUK]

All good points, and I'm not conveniently leaving them out, but we should do better.
Even at the state we are, if you make a comparison with Norwich's first team, we have much much better players.
Everything that you said would be fair for the games against chelsea, city, liverpool, but not Norwich or Southampton, or Aston Villa. Even with all those players you mentioned being out, we have enough to be better than those teams

Problem - we seem to have individuals, where as other clubs have teams who, while not necessarily of the technical quality of our players, work their bollocks off together.

I think the remainder of the season will serve as a way for Jose to sort the wheat from the chaff, figure out who will run through walls for him, who will work together best and then (hopefully) enable him to have a successful summer shaping the squad he wants.

 

[Gb160]

Everything that you said would be fair for the games against chelsea, city, liverpool, but not Norwich or Southampton, or Aston Villa. Even with all those players you mentioned being out, we have enough to be better than those teams

And how long have those teams had their managers in place to assemble their squads in order to implement how they want to play?
If Jose had been here 12/18 months then you might have a point, but right now after 4 months, it's just premature.

 

[rez9000]

Hold on there is a difference between fundamental changes and not being able to keep the fucking ball for a duration of more than 1/2 passes and school boy defending, that simply doesn't wash mate no one is in tune with anyone on the pitch not even a fraction, surely it's not asking too much to see some changes developing even small but we are getting worse.

And you don't feel that a squad low on confidence and fitness might, just might, have something to do with that? He can't pass the ball for them.

 

[shelfboy68]

And you don't feel that a squad low on confidence and fitness might, just might, have something to do with that? He can't pass the ball for them.

Confidence is draining sure but this is getting progressively worse lose to arsenal and west ham and the place will be a war zone.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Confidence is draining sure but this is getting progressively worse lose to arsenal and west ham and the place will be a war zone.

Mate, Dier already saw to that last night, only thing we're missing now is you running out to the center circle with the corner flag and pointing at Levy.

 

[shelfboy68]

Mate, Dier already saw to that last night, only thing we're missing now is you running out to the center circle with the corner flag and pointing at Levy.

Done that next challenge

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Done that next challenge

I can't wait for our next home game, twitter will be ablaze!

 

[sunnydelight786]

You weren't in here giving the same bollocks four games ago.

I choose to vent my frustrations more on Twitter and the ones who know me on there from here will vouch that I was against this negative toxic has been twat the moment he was linked with us last October. Sadly too many got seduced by his charm offensive where common sense tells you his style of football will never change.

He's only been here a few months and has already lowered expectations. Suck it up as it's only going to get worse under this dinosaur and lets not forget plenty wanted this mug in.....

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I want to believe this, just seems to me a large proportion of the good football we've played under Jose is when we need a goal desperately and the shackles of his tactics are thrown off. The minute we are a front foot team we look half decent, but that isn’t him.

Equally when we have a clear week and he has been training them to do 'what he wants' we look worse then ever. Just scares me, I don't want to be anti Jose but I keep seeing horrible things with my eyes.

Good post.

The players come alive when we are chasing match and need a goal. It tells me that is the style they are more suited to and would rather play. This conservative, passive, defend space and territory style is just counter intuitive to the players we have. It’s only going to go wrong when eventually the players stop listening to Mourinho because they’re bored shitless of what he’s telling them to do.

 

[Ossie85]

And how long have those teams had their managers in place to assemble their squads in order to implement how they want to play?
If Jose had been here 12/18 months then you might have a point, but right now after 4 months, it's just premature.

How long has Ancelotti had??
Everton play much better than us.

 

[kremlyn]

With strikers

 

[rez9000]

Confidence is draining sure but this is getting progressively worse lose to arsenal and west ham and the place will be a war zone.

That's not the point. And it shouldn't be the point. What difference does the opposition, in terms of it being a rival or not, have to do with anything?

Too much emotionalism, too much short-termism, too many preconceptions all being used to paint a situation as untenable when it's anything but. It is too much to expect this season to suddenly go from abject (and I mean as it was before Mourinho was appointed) to being a panacea of footballing beauty.

 

[kremlyn]

I want rid of Mourinho but he genuinely has a point about playing with the squad he's got. No one could realistically do better without either son or kane.

 

[Japhet]

With strikers

Even if you take the strikers out of it, they have a style and identity and play as a team.

 

[Gb160]

How long has Ancelotti had??
Everton play much better than us.

Do u watch every minute of every one of their games?

What you're doing is comparing Everton's highlights reel, to Spurs' warts n all, behind the scenes outtakes.
As I said, if he'd been here 12/18 months, your moaning might be valid.

 

[THOWIG]

All good points, and I'm not conveniently leaving them out, but we should do better.
Even at the state we are, if you make a comparison with Norwich's first team, we have much much better players.
Everything that you said would be fair for the games against chelsea, city, liverpool, but not Norwich or Southampton, or Aston Villa. Even with all those players you mentioned being out, we have enough to be better than those teams

100 percent agree. Having no strikers doesn't mean you concede the amount of goals we have or the fact that we're playing with zero structure.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Do u watch every minute of every one of their games?

What you're doing is comparing Everton's highlights reel, to Spurs' warts n all, behind the scenes outtakes.
As I said, if he'd been here 12/18 months, your moaning might be valid.

I’ve seen a few games of Everton as they’ve played Arsenal and Man.U on tele recently and they’ve looked very good. I’d have preferred Anchelotti to Jose but I was a big pro Jose fan before he was appointed but happy to admit I was very wrong, even with all the player injuries etc he’s had to deal with it’s pretty clear now that he’s outdated and that he’s not a good fit for us. Yet another mistake from Levy.

 

[Gb160]

even with all the player injuries etc he’s had to deal with it’s pretty clear now that he’s outdated and that he’s not a good fit for us. Yet another mistake from Levy.

Weren't u saying the other day he needs time?
You keep flip flopping.

And why are you so sure u were wrong after only 4 months? It doesn't make any sense.