Player Watch: Pierre-Emile Højbjerg
- Thread starter THFCSPURS19
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He looks really average in this. I’m sorry
Quite a few passes going astray. His whole body shape when he is making a pass and his general technique is average very easy to read and a distinct element of pondering what to do when he gets some time
makes some interceptions but generally scuffing them away rather than doing anything productive with them
I’m open minded to any transfer but he would be a step down on many of the DMs we have had over the years
hughy
I'm SUPER cereal.
- Nov 18, 2007
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Couldn't disagree with this more, to be honest I'm baffled as to what you've seen to make this assessment.
I've seen quite a bit of him, and to find a DM who isn't afraid to try a forward pass is a rarity these days. Granted he's no Kevin De Bruyne with the ball at his feet, but it would be refreshing to have a CDM who can protect a back 4 and get his head up and pick a pass. It makes a huge difference in turning defence in to attack.
I'm interested to know which DM's we've had who you'd consider to be better at both defensive and attacking aspects of the game.
nedley
John Duncan's Love Child
- Jul 28, 2006
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Might be seeing a theme here...
DiVaio
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His dream is to play in Champions League and he prefers Everon to over us? Sounds legit.
Him or Kondogbia, please.
Luka Van der Bale
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What’s the source for the Everton info?
C0YS
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Winks 2 years ago to now is completely uncomparable, mainly because he was playing a completely different role against Madrid. He was playing a number 8, while Winks the last two seasons is playing a number 6. I actually think his performance against Man City a few weeks ago was a top top defensive midfield performance. I think he is still got a long way to go to convince in that position, but, not fair to judge him in the same way. You can't expect Wink's dynamic give and go passing game that characterises him as a N8 used when in a role which he is meant to keep team shape. Defensively Winks is miles better than what he once was, but maybe still not good enough to truly keep that holding role.
Again, tactics are important. Hojbjerg splits a lot of opinions in Southampton, even before this transfer link, but Southampton play super compact with a strong press. They aim to win the ball early and pass it on quickly, so midfielders will by force be playing a more progressive forward passing game (with terrible ball retention rates). Honestly, I would be shocked if he walks right into the team, he hasn't shown all that.
Spurrific
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So why would he join us? We’re not threatening to qualify for the foreseeable either.
C0YS
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hmm, firstly the video is 3 minutes long, which suggests it's either edited down to show highlights or he didn't get much of the ball. Considering that he made 65 passes in that game I suggest it's the former. He actually seemed to have had a particularly good game 88% pass rate being unusually high for him. However, all the blocks, headers and tackles appear to be included (Ward-Prowse btw outperformed Hojbjerg in each one of those stats in that game, though how useful these stats are at determining Defensive midfield ability is debatable).
Secondly, that is a very generous interpretation of what you watched. His long passes were generally good, though often flat and far too slow. He gave the ball away very cheaply in a few of those clips, normally winning the ball back but could have cost him. The goal didn't seem to come from his particular creativity but a well drilled routine of playing to the flanks. His short passing left a lot to be desired in that clip, often hitting balls too hard or too softly. But there was a lot of good defensive play shown in fairness.
My biggest concern is that people seem to think he would sort out our leaky defense. But I find it hard to believe our defensive midfield solution will come from a team whose defense is a bigger shambles than our own. Seriously, Southampton can't defend they are in the bottom 3 for goals conceded. And that is the thing with southampton, they post really impressive tackling stats, interceptions stats and all that as a team. Ward Prowse and Hojbjerg, by some metrics are two of the best ball winning midfielders in the league, but their team can't defend.
C0YS
Just another member
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Again, I want to talk about how southampton play as it can really change what stats really mean, and even how you interpret the game on tv.
The style, to put it simply is play super compact, play the ball quickly, without worrying too much if you lose the ball, and press quickly. If you lose the ball as often as southampton, you better win it back pretty often too. Southampton's passing rate is the second lowest in the league, only long ball merchants, Burnley, are lower. But their possession stats are alright, at 11th in the league. Because they lose the ball a lot and win it back.
My point here is you can't read too much into the stats, or individual examples of blocks and all that. Because, Southampton are always likely to be making more blocks (1st in the League) and more tackles (2nd in the league) than the vast majority of teams, but there is another side of that. They also have the most fouls in the league and also the most dribbled past team in the league.
When we look at CM's Hojbjerg he is 13th in the league for tackles, not too bad, not great. His rate for interceptions is ok at 19th and he is 5th at blocking. He also bucks the team trend and is 22nd at being dribbled past. All are stats that are comparable to the likes of McArthur (10th, 8th, joint 5th, 8th) or Billing ( joint 13th,5th,joint 5th, joint 22nd) so it is always interesting that people really go on about his great stats, because, yes he scores fairly highly but most struggling team holding midfielders tend to score pretty high. The main thing that people focus on is his stats in the midfield third, which are by far the highest in the league
The issue with this is, well look at the heat maps, of the same these highlights were taken. Look at southampton, look at us.
I'll pick another random game
same thing yes?
What about against liverpool, they lost 4-0, had only 40% of possession, so you would expect, naturally they would be playing in their own half more, right?
Nope, same thing, same high line, everything condensed in that midfield third. Because, if Southampton don't win the ball in the midfield third then they don't win the ball at all. They play in the midfield third it's where all their players are most of the game. So these midfield winning stats, look impressive but, for me, in reality they are not particularly different than those of McArthur or Billing, players no one would be particularly excited about us going for (though both could do a job as a member of a squad).
But this can also affect what we can see visually. We can see Hojbjerg making tackles, being progressive with the ball blablabla, and we can not see the same thing in our players. But when you make the pitch so compact, going attack to defense isn't hard, it's one simple move, and that is why you take the risk of playing so high and so compact. We don't play that way, Jose has never played that way. Again, tackling, blocking balls and all that, is much easier when there is less space to pass into, and pressing onto a player is at much closer distance. It would be completely unreasonable to expect Hojbjerg to get even close to those number for us, and he has only got such high numbers with the tactical change at Southampton, and every single midfielder in that team produces similar figures.
Similarly, most Southampton fans see this, go to their forums. Not their forums after we were linked. Go before we were linked, and you will see it all a bit Eric Dier, and in fairness holding players are rarely universally popular with fans, because most people don't understand them (and often over value some of the stats I have just used as a comparison) and it is always hard to judge how he would adapt in a new team. Maybe playing with better players will give him a new lease of life and help him be more effective, he is also still young and developing and has a arrogant demanding personality (which Jose might like) but there is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, that tells me this will be some super solution to our midfield woes.
So I write this, and other things, not because I don't want him. If we sign him, I'd shrug my shoulders but see some merit in the move, but I worry you guys are going to kill him when he doesn't suddenly solve all our issues, or when inevitably he gives the ball away in a silly position (something he is quite good at) or seems flat paced and isn't winning enough tackles. Because these things will probably happen, and it's not his fault, because some the reactions here are completely over the top to his actual ability.
The style, to put it simply is play super compact, play the ball quickly, without worrying too much if you lose the ball, and press quickly. If you lose the ball as often as southampton, you better win it back pretty often too. Southampton's passing rate is the second lowest in the league, only long ball merchants, Burnley, are lower. But their possession stats are alright, at 11th in the league. Because they lose the ball a lot and win it back.
My point here is you can't read too much into the stats, or individual examples of blocks and all that. Because, Southampton are always likely to be making more blocks (1st in the League) and more tackles (2nd in the league) than the vast majority of teams, but there is another side of that. They also have the most fouls in the league and also the most dribbled past team in the league.
When we look at CM's Hojbjerg he is 13th in the league for tackles, not too bad, not great. His rate for interceptions is ok at 19th and he is 5th at blocking. He also bucks the team trend and is 22nd at being dribbled past. All are stats that are comparable to the likes of McArthur (10th, 8th, joint 5th, 8th) or Billing ( joint 13th,5th,joint 5th, joint 22nd) so it is always interesting that people really go on about his great stats, because, yes he scores fairly highly but most struggling team holding midfielders tend to score pretty high. The main thing that people focus on is his stats in the midfield third, which are by far the highest in the league
The issue with this is, well look at the heat maps, of the same these highlights were taken. Look at southampton, look at us.
I'll pick another random game
same thing yes?
What about against liverpool, they lost 4-0, had only 40% of possession, so you would expect, naturally they would be playing in their own half more, right?
Nope, same thing, same high line, everything condensed in that midfield third. Because, if Southampton don't win the ball in the midfield third then they don't win the ball at all. They play in the midfield third it's where all their players are most of the game. So these midfield winning stats, look impressive but, for me, in reality they are not particularly different than those of McArthur or Billing, players no one would be particularly excited about us going for (though both could do a job as a member of a squad).
But this can also affect what we can see visually. We can see Hojbjerg making tackles, being progressive with the ball blablabla, and we can not see the same thing in our players. But when you make the pitch so compact, going attack to defense isn't hard, it's one simple move, and that is why you take the risk of playing so high and so compact. We don't play that way, Jose has never played that way. Again, tackling, blocking balls and all that, is much easier when there is less space to pass into, and pressing onto a player is at much closer distance. It would be completely unreasonable to expect Hojbjerg to get even close to those number for us, and he has only got such high numbers with the tactical change at Southampton, and every single midfielder in that team produces similar figures.
Similarly, most Southampton fans see this, go to their forums. Not their forums after we were linked. Go before we were linked, and you will see it all a bit Eric Dier, and in fairness holding players are rarely universally popular with fans, because most people don't understand them (and often over value some of the stats I have just used as a comparison) and it is always hard to judge how he would adapt in a new team. Maybe playing with better players will give him a new lease of life and help him be more effective, he is also still young and developing and has a arrogant demanding personality (which Jose might like) but there is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, that tells me this will be some super solution to our midfield woes.
So I write this, and other things, not because I don't want him. If we sign him, I'd shrug my shoulders but see some merit in the move, but I worry you guys are going to kill him when he doesn't suddenly solve all our issues, or when inevitably he gives the ball away in a silly position (something he is quite good at) or seems flat paced and isn't winning enough tackles. Because these things will probably happen, and it's not his fault, because some the reactions here are completely over the top to his actual ability.
Pretty much what I said earlier in the thread. His main plus points seem to be his defensive stats and his premier league experience. Both areas in which he is barely ahead of James Ward-Prowse playing alongside him. I wouldn't be shocked if he delivered very similar midfield numbers to our current lot, once slotted into our system/style.
However he might be cheap and I have no answers for an alternative, sooooo...
spursfan77
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- Aug 13, 2005
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Ward Prowse is a better player and has set piece delivery. If it was up to me I’d sign him over Holbjerg. Neither are defensive midfielders though so it’s a moot point as neither are what we need.
Japhet
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- Aug 30, 2010
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Good post. Goes back to what I was saying earlier,i.e. Hojbjerg would be OK in a CM3 which we hardly ever play. Winks would be loads better in the defensive role in a 3 than he is in a 2 as well, but as long as we have to have Dele on the pitch that's unlikely to happen. If we're going to buy a DM it needs to be a proper DM, not just somebody who has reasonable stats in a team that plays a completely different brand of football to us. I wouldn't mind betting Skipp would be very good in Hojbjerg's role at Southampton.
D
Deleted member 27995
When I read all these posts about Hojbjerg, it just reminds of all the years worth of debate about square pegs and round holes on this team - last years summer window shines more light on that - our recruitment outside of Bergwijn - continues to make me wonder if anyone in the last 18 months has a clue which direction this playing squad is meant to be heading.
I find it very frustrating because you could have similar debate about fullbacks, central defenders and even this elusive 'back up' for Harry.
I find it very frustrating because you could have similar debate about fullbacks, central defenders and even this elusive 'back up' for Harry.
TEESSIDE1
Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
- Jul 3, 2006
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We’ve a knack of signing players that are either too bloody slow for our style of play or are simply not suited to the EPL or we don’t have the necessary players to allow them to flourish.
Rebrov - needed a target man
Ndomblele - needs a designated DM
Davies - too slow
Trippier - too slow
Janssen - too slow for a high press
Llorente - too slow for a high press
Fazio - too slow
Wimmer - too slow
Stambouli - too slow for a high press
Soldado - not suited to the EPL
Paulinho - not suited to the EPL
KP- Boateng - not suited to the EPL
Chiriches - too slow
Sigurdsson- not suited to our style of play
Bentley - too slow/not suited to our style of play
Hopefully with Jose we’ll see quality over quantity and players who suit the EPL and our style of play.
Hojbjerg - established EPL player
Bergwijn - rapid, skillful, hardworking, creative, scores goals, young, suits our style of play. Great signing
Fernandes - blip far as I’ve no idea what his best position is or what he brings to the team
Hoopspur
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A good and interesting post.
One key thing that he may be able to provide though is leadership/captain qualities? We are desperately in need of someone who can do this strongly and consistently. The importance seems to be under appreciated at Spurs and has been for years. Imo, the most successful teams have strong captains. Maybe we are also buying someone for this role in the future? The club has surely done it's due diligence.
Will he provide that though? - I don't know.
C0YS
Just another member
- Jul 9, 2007
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Our style of play under Jose is not going to be a high press.
For what it's worth a lot of those players did alright and every club has these kinds of players. I would call Chiriches slow, he just was, well erm talented but not reliable.
Bentley suited our style at the time perfectly, just flopped. Sig also suited the style, just isn't a super great player, but did well. Llorente was a massive success that people don't recognise enough here. His overall contribution for the team as a back up striker was very good. KPB is suited to the PL and did great at Portsmouth, when he came to us though he was a kid with attitude problems who the manager never wanted. Wimmer was a great signing for us, did a decent job sold him off for a 12m profit.
Davies and Trippier might be 'too slow' but have also had a really good time here, and top players. Davies actually presses really well as he is such an aggressive proactive player, that aspect of him is seriously underrated.
In any case I could very much see Hojbjerg joining your list with 'too slow, not suited to our style of play'. Also I like Bergwijn a lot of positives, but its early days, and people could have said the same at the time about a lot of the players you mentioned.
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SpursSince1980
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- Jan 23, 2011
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At this juncture, i would be asking if he a significant upgrade over Sissoko? In the Man U game he seemed to be playing that DM role, and as far as i could tell, he played a good game. At times he reminded me of Wanyama in his prime. So, is PEH a better DM than Sissoko? I'm not sure.
JayB
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- Aug 24, 2011
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Sissoko is at best a makeshift solution IMO. He doesn't have the best positional sense, isn't great at receiving the ball under pressure or on the half-turn, and his poor passing technique would likely lead to a number of chances for the opposition. He's able to compensate for those faults through sheer athleticism, determination and work rate, but for me we need a true modern No. 6 if we want to get back to competing for trophies.
Whether Hojbjerg is good enough to take us up a level I'm not sure, but I'd rather not rely on a square peg for yet another season. It's long past time to properly replace Wanyama.
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