Player Watch Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

[Shadydan]

Facts are facts. He was NOT given a red card. The rest is hot air. If everyone is so sure that he did this intentionally then why is there no actions from the FA ? The answer is that no-one will ever know unless Lo Celso writes a book. Why are Spurs fans so keen to accuse him when he was found innocent, and before you reply, the fact exists that the ref did not look at the monitor because he didn't see it as a red and neither did VARman until pressure started on his original, and correct, decision.

I think you're struggling with what a fact is...he wasn't given a red card due to an error by VAR which was later admitted therefore it was a red card offence, you can argue the toss and go off on a tangent as much as you like but he should have been sent off.

Yes the ref didn't see the incident as a red but this is literally what we have VAR for, VAR did it's job correctly in the first instance by looking at him but failed to take appropriate action.

Also the rules say that no action can be taken since the ref/Var already saw the incident, it's their fuck up - he/we got lucky.

Stop being to biased, you wouldn't be saying it if he didn't play for Spurs.

 

[mark87]

It's a red card offence. I don't think however there was any attempt to deliberately injure the player though, i think he went to trap the ball but azp came in too quick with the tackle, took the ball away and lo celso catches him on leg. He should have been sent off though due to dangerous play.

 

[Shadydan]

It's a red card offence. I don't think however there was any attempt to deliberately injure the player though, i think he went to trap the ball but azp came in too quick with the tackle, took the ball away and lo celso catches him on leg. He should have been sent off though due to dangerous play.

I'd say 99% of footballers don't go out to purposely injure a fellow professional some footballers do leave a foot in though. There's nothing wrong with admitting that, if anyone has played football and you are pissed off and when you can't get the ball you tend to throw your weight around, it's natural to some players - this is what happened in this instance IMO.

 

[Paul Gascoigne]

I think you're struggling with what a fact is...he wasn't given a red card due to an error by VAR which was later admitted therefore it was a red card offence, you can argue the toss and go off on a tangent as much as you like but he should have been sent off.

Yes the ref didn't see the incident as a red but this is literally what we have VAR for, VAR did it's job correctly in the first instance by looking at him but failed to take appropriate action.

Also the rules say that no action can be taken since the ref/Var already saw the incident, it's their fuck up - he/we got lucky.

Stop being to biased, you wouldn't be saying it if he didn't play for Spurs.

Sorry but a fact is what happened, not what you wish had happened!!

 

[Shadydan]

Sorry but a fact is what happened, not what you wish had happened!!

Christ Almighty...Okay

 

[Paul Gascoigne]

Christ Almighty...Okay

Agreed !

 

[Nebby]

Still not convinced this was a red card offence. Watch the full side-on view and you can see that Lo Celso is already turning his body away from Azpilicueta in anticipation of a challenge. If Azpilicueta hadn't slid in, the two of them wouldn't have made contact. How can there be intent on Lo Celso's part?

 

[Tottenhamboy85]

Doesn’t have to be intent. The rule is dangerous play or endangering a player which he was.

edit: I think he certainly knew what he was doing though.

 

[E17yid]

What do you mean it wasn't a red card?, it was a red card offence hence VAR later admitting that they got it wrong?

That excuse is a bit weak he put his foot down with force, he knew exactly what he was doing especially since he lashed out at Azpilecueta in the 1st half - he was frustrated.

Did he put his foot down with force? I honestly didn’t see it like that. You can clearly see the difference between the force of a stamp and the force of just putting your foot down. I immediately thought of the Balotelli stamp on Parker back in the day, you could clearly see the stamp motion because it’s basically like a kick. I honestly didn’t see that same force (or anywhere close) with Lo Celso.

 

[Shadydan]

Did he put his foot down with force? I honestly didn’t see it like that. You can clearly see the difference between the force of a stamp and the force of just putting your foot down. I immediately thought of the Balotelli stamp on Parker back in the day, you could clearly see the stamp motion because it’s basically like a kick. I honestly didn’t see that same force (or anywhere close) with Lo Celso.

Force doesn't really matter, it's the intention.

 

[N'Obody]

Offence or not. It has happened now. We still have Lo Celso available to play. I am not complaining, but that Argentinian fire in his belly could get him into alot of trouble. It was a London derby and it was good to see some bite in him. It was either get clattered and taken out by azp, or try protect himself the best he could. There was no intent to injure him, otherwise the challenge could have been alot worse and azp on a stretcher at the end of it.

It's being taken out of context now, as the game moves so fast and players move just as fast. When you take things like this into slow motion, of course it's going to look horrific. If players had the time to go into slow motion, then these incidents wouldnt ever happen. So to say a player intentionally does that in the moment, I feel is wrong. This is why VAR will never really work and will cause more problems going forward.

On another note, we need him more than anyone else right now and we cant afford to lose him. Yes, he's a very lucky boy...But we need all the luck we can get right now.

Let's get behind Lo Celso. He's one of our own guys now. Let's take the good, the bad and the ugly from him, as he is going to be a midfield general who bosses games, with his hunger, aggression and will have some moments like this. But I love his elite level of skills and shithousery ?. Bit like Modric in his tekkers and shithousery like Lamela. Other teams and fans will love and hate him too and the best part he's all ours.

COYS!

 

[E17yid]

Force doesn't really matter, it's the intention.

True but intent is a lot harder to prove. If he truly intended to hurt him he would’ve used more force.

 

[Japhet]

It looks different in real time and slow motion. Slow motion makes it look worse as it often does but the incident happened in real time. VAR lives for slow motion so I'm not surprised they changed their mind.

 

[Shadydan]

True but intent is a lot harder to prove. If he truly intended to hurt him he would’ve used more force.

Again it wasn't by force IMO, you can have the intention of leaving one on you opponent and not want to injure him.

 

[E17yid]

Again it wasn't by force IMO, you can have the intention of leaving one on you opponent and not want to injure him.

I can see where you’re coming from I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as you’re making out with regards to the intent. I guess letter of the law is it’s a red but so was Robertson and Sterling etc etc.

 

[buckley]

An ex pro whose name escapes me said " there is no way that is a red card his foot was heading for the ground the Chelsea players leg slid in at great speed and Locelso's leg carried on its way down to the ground with no time to move his foot out of its course " its only paraphrasing but you get the idea . in fact I think there was more intent in the Chelsea players tackle than in Lo Celso's .
You can call this statement bias I call it fact . it is not a red card .

 

[ralvy]

Doesn’t have to be intent. The rule is dangerous play or endangering a player which he was.

edit: I think he certainly knew what he was doing though.

Yeah, but Lo Celso was already on the air when Azpilicueta did the tackle, so that means that Azpilicueta would be the one doing the dangerous playe and endangering both himself and GIovannie, wouldn't it?

 

[TheBlueRooster]

Personally I think it was a red, said so at the time and nothing I've seen since changes my mind. The problem with VAR in this instance is its not a matter of fact but opinions. One ref would say no red but another would. Oliver probably didn't see it but after looking at the monitor may have given it but took the advice that he may not have agreed with. VAR should be used for fact only and the ref should be advised to look at the incident himself and use his own judgement.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

I think you're struggling with what a fact is...he wasn't given a red card due to an error by VAR which was later admitted therefore it was a red card offence, you can argue the toss and go off on a tangent as much as you like but he should have been sent off.

Yes the ref didn't see the incident as a red but this is literally what we have VAR for, VAR did it's job correctly in the first instance by looking at him but failed to take appropriate action.

Also the rules say that no action can be taken since the ref/Var already saw the incident, it's their fuck up - he/we got lucky.

Stop being to biased, you wouldn't be saying it if he didn't play for Spurs.

If it took the FIFA official 15 minutes to decide if it was clear and obvious then was it clear and obvious?

 

[Shadydan]

If it took the FIFA official 15 minutes to decide if it was clear and obvious then was it clear and obvious?

Unsure why you're asking me about that...?

Whether it's clear and obvious or not isn't my argument.