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Harry Kane

1966

Neutral England supporter
Nov 5, 2019
134
391
I still have nightmares hearing people insisting we are a better team without Harry Kane.

Kane is a proven goal scorer and we just have to find him more. Hopefully we'll see that more at Tottenham with the introduction of Lo Celso Sessengon and improved fitness of Dele Alli
It's statistically illiterate. The difference in sample sizes between the with and without Kane conditions is too large and any properly matched sub-samples are too small. There just isn't the power available to make any good significant inferences from the data we have.

I used to defend stats as a way of analysing football because they seemed to be the best way to reach some kind of objective truth. But I've been on a long many-year journey to changing my mind. The reality is that the vast majority of people don't understand p-values or confidence intervals and, through no fault of their own, simply don't have a sufficient understanding of the maths of probability and statistics to use stats appropriately.

More than that, however, reducing a complex and beautiful sport to a collection of numbers that represent an infinitesimal amount of what's actually going on in a match is crude, not externally valid, and not at all conducive to enjoying the game for everything it is.

Footie stats have spawned an insufferable generation of YouTube kids - well, I hope they're kids - who quite happily argue their respective opinions for hours using almost nothing but numbers. Unlike the older generation, who watched football, these particular kids seem to prefer arguing about it.

Stats (and highlight videos) just enable them to argue for the superiority of their preferred player over another without ever having seen the other player in a real match. As you quantify something, you usually take away from its qualitative spiritual essence and the function of debate. All of this and plenty more "modern" "developments" are contributing to a horrible social culture around football.

Anyway, going back to one of many dumb modern football memes, which is that Spurs are better without Kane: I had hoped the meme would die at the end of last season. Unfortunately, a tragic CL final result from a Spurs team that was hot, nervy garbage from top to bottom fed the exceptionally fanciful idea that things could've been different if Lucas had started -- an idea so stupid that you really had to want to believe it, frankly.

The red pill on last season is that, as far as I can remember, the worst period for Spurs came after Kane got injured the second time. Spurs played six games, winning just one and scoring a grand total of three(!) goals. Kane wasn't there for that nonsense, but it's easy and important to forget that period if you want to construct a narrative (or, indeed, be a sucker for peer pressure and absorb the dominant narrative from the rest of the football fandom).

(It's probably worth noting that these results aren't significant in the grand scheme either but in a world where people's opinion of a player changes after every game, average suckers should be factoring this period into their invalid deductive chains quite heavily)

The claim that Spurs are better without Harry doesn't pass the basic eye test. And that, for me, is almost all that matters nowadays. If you believe otherwise, I've got a question for you: are England better without Sterling because we haven't won any of our other qualifiers - all of which Sterling started - by 7 goals? That's essentially an analogue of the argument you're making in "better without Kane", especially accompanied by "and the numbers prove it".

Sorry for the long response but the Kane memes are particularly triggering to me as a True Kane Believer and scientist. :)
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,941
71,359
I just want Kane to be like this with Spurs. Seems a bit disinterested for us. I chalk it down to tactics and a disinterested squad. Maybe with a new manager things will turn around.
 

1966

Neutral England supporter
Nov 5, 2019
134
391
Since when did this become a Poch v Kane issue other than some deluded fans way of creating a talking point
To be fair, it's enough of an issue that the Fighting Cock podcast guys discussed it in earnest and that was long before this conversation popped up here. Those guys are very conservative and not at all reactionary so there's probably at least something to the discussion.

(For those who don't listen, all three hosts said they'd choose Kane if it came down to it)
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
? Because the ball isn't getting to him, players aren't picking him out at the rate they once were, are you saying that he should go hunting for the ball himself, do you want him coming into midfield and picking the ball up in non threatening areas? A complete striker doesn't mean how many touches you have of the ball it means your all round game is top notch.

The difference is simple, back when we were actually good, we played as a team and our football was decent Kane was involved more as we kept the ball up the pitch more, now we aren't anywhere near that level and our football is slow and ponderous therefore certain players are always going to suffer as a result. There's no science to it, we've dropped off in an attacking sense and therefore this has affected Kane.

This couldn't be more obvious than tonight.
 

glacierSpurs

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2013
16,163
25,473

Happy Kane.
 

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DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,266
21,766
and others:



nostalgia eh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Shearer#International
Shearer's one hat trick was against Luxembourg. Kane has 3.

Kane has more goals in less games. Opposition standard is fairly similar, i'd say.


What a twat post by Lineker.

Used to really like him at spurs when everyone thought he was Mr nice guy, but funnily enough there was someone at work who did some work around spurs, nice old Asian lady who absolutely loved spurs and didn’t have a bad word to say a bad word to say about anyone.

But she really didn’t like Lineker and said he was a horrible man. Made me think as she is very easy going and it would take some going to upset her.

And absolutely no need for that tweet, a lot of people are really shitty to Kane and he just can’t seem to win even though someone like Rooney was fapped over, but he was nowhere near as effective as Kane has been up top aside from his break-out euro competition.

As a country people should be getting behind our national team but this is typical of media-like behaviour trying to self-sabotage and find things to bitch about.

Glad to see the responses I read were slating Lineker though, you still get large element of twats going on how they don’t rate him on there no matter what he does (mainly scouse fans it seems lol).
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
I just want Kane to be like this with Spurs. Seems a bit disinterested for us. I chalk it down to tactics and a disinterested squad. Maybe with a new manager things will turn around.
Ok should we appoint Gareth Southgate since Kane looks more happy playing for England under him....
 

Seafordian Spurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,157
4,141
What a twat post by Lineker.

Used to really like him at spurs when everyone thought he was Mr nice guy, but funnily enough there was someone at work who did some work around spurs, nice old Asian lady who absolutely loved spurs and didn’t have a bad word to say a bad word to say about anyone.

But she really didn’t like Lineker and said he was a horrible man. Made me think as she is very easy going and it would take some going to upset her.

And absolutely no need for that tweet, a lot of people are really shitty to Kane and he just can’t seem to win even though someone like Rooney was fapped over, but he was nowhere near as effective as Kane has been up top aside from his break-out euro competition.

As a country people should be getting behind our national team but this is typical of media-like behaviour trying to self-sabotage and find things to bitch about.

Glad to see the responses I read were slating Lineker though, you still get large element of twats going on how they don’t rate him on there no matter what he does (mainly scouse fans it seems lol).

Gratuitous comment by the crisp seller. Seriously, why? Bittter ex.
.
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
26,970
61,859
I just want Kane to be like this with Spurs. Seems a bit disinterested for us. I chalk it down to tactics and a disinterested squad. Maybe with a new manager things will turn around.

Us having better players would help. All assists for Kane's goals yesterday came from the FB's and I can't imagine Rose and Aurier finding Kane in the same way.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,630
Kosovo have not had the ability to collect the same amount of coefficient points as other countries, as they have only been a recognised FIFA nation since 2018 World Cup qualification tournament.
When they play a full cycle, I expect them to be around the 50 mark, maybe slightly higher, certainly above both Bulgaria and Montenegro, whom they have beaten in this group (along with Czech Republic), and will only get better as unfortunately for them, some of the players that would have been eligible to play for Kosovo had already played for other countries whilst Kosovo were not recognised (Januzaj, Xhaka, Shaqiri etc.)

The other rankings system has them in 60th place at the moment (y)
 

gertrude stein

Active Member
Aug 7, 2013
39
148
It's statistically illiterate. The difference in sample sizes between the with and without Kane conditions is too large and any properly matched sub-samples are too small. There just isn't the power available to make any good significant inferences from the data we have.

I used to defend stats as a way of analysing football because they seemed to be the best way to reach some kind of objective truth. But I've been on a long many-year journey to changing my mind. The reality is that the vast majority of people don't understand p-values or confidence intervals and, through no fault of their own, simply don't have a sufficient understanding of the maths of probability and statistics to use stats appropriately.

More than that, however, reducing a complex and beautiful sport to a collection of numbers that represent an infinitesimal amount of what's actually going on in a match is crude, not externally valid, and not at all conducive to enjoying the game for everything it is.

Footie stats have spawned an insufferable generation of YouTube kids - well, I hope they're kids - who quite happily argue their respective opinions for hours using almost nothing but numbers. Unlike the older generation, who watched football, these particular kids seem to prefer arguing about it.

Stats (and highlight videos) just enable them to argue for the superiority of their preferred player over another without ever having seen the other player in a real match. As you quantify something, you usually take away from its qualitative spiritual essence and the function of debate. All of this and plenty more "modern" "developments" are contributing to a horrible social culture around football.

Anyway, going back to one of many dumb modern football memes, which is that Spurs are better without Kane: I had hoped the meme would die at the end of last season. Unfortunately, a tragic CL final result from a Spurs team that was hot, nervy garbage from top to bottom fed the exceptionally fanciful idea that things could've been different if Lucas had started -- an idea so stupid that you really had to want to believe it, frankly.

The red pill on last season is that, as far as I can remember, the worst period for Spurs came after Kane got injured the second time. Spurs played six games, winning just one and scoring a grand total of three(!) goals. Kane wasn't there for that nonsense, but it's easy and important to forget that period if you want to construct a narrative (or, indeed, be a sucker for peer pressure and absorb the dominant narrative from the rest of the football fandom).

(It's probably worth noting that these results aren't significant in the grand scheme either but in a world where people's opinion of a player changes after every game, average suckers should be factoring this period into their invalid deductive chains quite heavily)

The claim that Spurs are better without Harry doesn't pass the basic eye test. And that, for me, is almost all that matters nowadays. If you believe otherwise, I've got a question for you: are England better without Sterling because we haven't won any of our other qualifiers - all of which Sterling started - by 7 goals? That's essentially an analogue of the argument you're making in "better without Kane", especially accompanied by "and the numbers prove it".

Sorry for the long response but the Kane memes are particularly triggering to me as a True Kane Believer and scientist. :)

This is marvellous. Well done :)
 

1966

Neutral England supporter
Nov 5, 2019
134
391
Only the morons on social media. I doubt the normal man in the street England fan thinks any different from us.
You're right AFAIK. All of my non-Spurs mates like Kane. The less refined may occasionally take this piss out of his speech impediment - much to my chagrin - but the general consensus is that he's world class and we're lucky to have him.
 
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