Harry Winks - Leicester City

[@Bobby__Lucky]

But they also have other parts to their game, Busquets for example contributes a load of assists and defensively also. That is the difference, Winks contributes no assists, goals and very little defensively.
You cannot just be in the team for passing and passing alone, especially when most of that passing is negative, you are taking a place of somebody that adds something to the team.

A load of assists? 31 in 451. A load? Come on mate he plays in a league where he is a redundant DM for most of the time. Poor assassination of winks and poor comparison. Busquets is playing in a position he is suited for. Winks is and never was a DM, but been taking one for the team. Poor show dude... Poor show.

 

[Trotter]

A load of assists? 31 in 451. A load? Come on mate he plays in a league where he is a redundant DM for most of the time. Poor assassination of winks and poor comparison. Busquets is playing in a position he is suited for. Winks is and never was a DM, but been taking one for the team. Poor show dude... Poor show.

Compared to 2 in 103 for Winks in all competitions despite playing further forward in a load of them, combined with a defence that has conceded getting on for double the amount of goals per game since he has been playing,
Not a poor comparison at all, just one that shows up the player comparison a poster made against Busquets.
Do you want to post the Xavi stats, as that is who some of you guys compare him to also, or would that be embarrassing?

 

[Trotter]

If you're happy with the movement up front and the players making themselves available, you're watching something different to me.

The movement up front makes little difference to how Winks has been playing his game though, it is receive the ball and immediately pass out wide, or pass straight back to the person that has passed to him, he isn’t even looking forwards most of the time.
When was the last time he actually travelled with the ball and actually looked for options ?
The difference between his play when he receives the ball and that of say Ndombele are chalk and cheese.
So far I think he has had 3 acceptable game this season, at Arsenal, and against Palace and Saints
Villa he was poor, taken off with us 1 down, and the game changed totally
City, poor, so was the whole team
Newcastle, very poor
Arsenal, looked to try and move ball quicker
Palace, game over after half hour, decent
Leicester, not good
Southampton, battling
Brighton, poor, so were team
Bayern, dreadful

 

[Japhet]

The movement up front makes little difference to how Winks has been playing his game though, it is receive the ball and immediately pass out wide, or pass straight back to the person that has passed to him, he isn’t even looking forwards most of the time.
When was the last time he actually travelled with the ball and actually looked for options ?
The difference between his play when he receives the ball and that of say Ndombele are chalk and cheese.

Has it occurred to you that Winks is doing what he's been asked to do. He receives the ball normally from a centre back and looks after it. It's more in Ndombele's remit to be looking for forward passes whilst Sissoko often tries the more dynamic runs. At the moment I think Winks is being shoe horned into a role that he's not best suited to, but to coin a cliche, he keeps things ticking over in midfield, and if that wasn't a valid role in just about every team, the cliche would never have been born.

 

[Trotter]

Has it occurred to you that Winks is doing what he's been asked to do. He receives the ball normally from a centre back and looks after it. It's more in Ndombele's remit to be looking for forward passes whilst Sissoko often tries the more dynamic runs. At the moment I think Winks is being shoe horned into a role that he's not best suited to, but to coin a cliche, he keeps things ticking over in midfield, and if that wasn't a valid role in just about every team, the cliche would never have been born.

I don’t think he is being asked to give us no defensive cover whatsoever, despite being the DM, and to transition the ball at snails pace allowing the opponents to settle in banks of 4, so no I don’t think he is performing as he is being asked to, but don’t think we have many options if we insist on playing this formation, as Dier just does not seem to be fit enough after his long term injuries and Foyth who may be an alternative being out.

 

[Primativ]

If you're happy with the movement up front and the players making themselves available, you're watching something different to me.

My point was it isn’t a lack of movement or loads of movement. Winks just isn’t an incisive forward passer.

Winks must have close to around 100 apps for Spurs now. Feel free to post a highlight video showing all his great forward passes in his spurs career.

 

[Primativ]

Has it occurred to you that Winks is doing what he's been asked to do. He receives the ball normally from a centre back and looks after it. It's more in Ndombele's remit to be looking for forward passes whilst Sissoko often tries the more dynamic runs. At the moment I think Winks is being shoe horned into a role that he's not best suited to, but to coin a cliche, he keeps things ticking over in midfield, and if that wasn't a valid role in just about every team, the cliche would never have been born.

?? It’s not more in Ndombeles remit, it’s simply that one player has the ability to play those passes consistently and one simply doesn’t.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Compared to 2 in 103 for Winks in all competitions despite playing further forward in a load of them, combined with a defence that has conceded getting on for double the amount of goals per game since he has been playing,
Not a poor comparison at all, just one that shows up the player comparison a poster made against Busquets.
Do you want to post the Xavi stats, as that is who some of you guys compare him to also, or would that be embarrassing?

Too much agenda on your part. You compare him to busquets clearly because of position, then when challenged you say "despite playing further forward in a load of them". Make your mind up. Busquets is a DM playing at DM. Winks is a cm/8 playing at DM because we have no one else or because poch thinks he can. I've not compared winks to xavi, who incidentally didn't really start to shine and became part of barcas xi till about 25 years old. But xavi and winks do have a common trait. They show for the ball constantly and link play constantly.

Anyway comparing winks at the beginning of his career to busquets coming to the end of his is still what I said. Poor show dude. Poor show.

 

[Trotter]

Too much agenda on your part. You compare him to busquets clearly because of position, then when challenged you say "despite playing further forward in a load of them". Make your mind up. Busquets is a DM playing at DM. Winks is a cm/8 playing at DM because we have no one else or because poch thinks he can. I've not compared winks to xavi, who incidentally didn't really start to shine and became part of barcas xi till about 25 years old. But xavi and winks do have a common trait. They show for the ball constantly and link play constantly.

Anyway comparing winks at the beginning of his career to busquets coming to the end of his is still what I said. Poor show dude. Poor show.

No, I commented about Busquets, because another poster higher up (previous page) who was saying, we shouldn’t complain about Winks, because Barcelona don’t complain about Busquets.
All I was saying was that Busquets doesn’t just pass, he creates a lot more, and provides a defensive cover, both of which Winks does not do.
Xavi is because again other people have compared him to Xavi, again totally missing the fact that Xavi created numerous goals, something Winks can only dream about.
It is not me comparing him to them, I compare him to Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb, Livermore etc, as that is the standard I think he is at, a Premier League standard player, that should not be in a top level side.
He is committed, loves the club, but is way too one-dmensional, does not have another string to his bow, other than taking a very safe pass, and until he can add either defensive awareness or goal creation and scoring to his repertoire , he just is not good enough.

What player do I have your permission to compare him to, as obviously any others in his position at our level, both at home and abroad have much better stats ?

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

No, I commented about Busquets, because another poster higher up (previous page) who was saying, we shouldn’t complain about Winks, because Barcelona don’t complain about Busquets.
All I was saying was that Busquets doesn’t just pass, he creates a lot more, and provides a defensive cover, both of which Winks does not do.
Xavi is because again other people have compared him to Xavi, again totally missing the fact that Xavi created numerous goals, something Winks can only dream about.
It is not me comparing him to them, I compare him to Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb, Livermore etc, as that is the standard I think he is at, a Premier League standard player, that should not be in a top level side.
He is committed, loves the club, but is way too one-dmensional, does not have another string to his bow, other than taking a very safe pass, and until he can add either defensive awareness or goal creation and scoring to his repertoire , he just is not good enough.

What player do I have your permission to compare him to, as obviously any others in his position at our level, both at home and abroad have much better stats ?

Why do you feel the need to compare? You want to compare a player who is not a DM at the beginning of his career playing in a DM ish role to a player that won 3 International tournaments in a row for with Spain, a world and European champion, who was a mainstay in what most people described as the best international team ever in football and also the best club side ever seen in the whole history of football.

Of course he's not able to match your comparison.

Stats aren't everything. You say all winks does is the safe pass. And all you see is him safe passing. Do you not think the way he moves creates the opportunity for him to safe pass. He creates the safe pass. He follows play, he is part of a team that creates goals, he is a cog. Because he knows he's a cog, he is very functional and very effective. He plays like a cog, not for himself. That alone is worth a weight.

But off the top of my head quickly, his run, swerve, dummy and oooop. Against arsenal in the lwf position created the opportunity for the pen. His lovely weighted assist pass against tranmere I think it was for Llorente, his tackle and dummy as last man in midfield earlier this season. All are not safe passes. He does more but k ow he creates the safe passes by how he plays. His movement and energy and intelligence. Most of our players are static asf. Kane particularly and most of our players stand around wanting it to feet. Winks like another underrated player Alli are more play the ball into space passers.

He's trying, he's out of position, he's still young, shown a lot against world class opposition. Is often more prominent in big games, has heart and has intelligence. He may never be as good as the best of all time, but digging him out and saying he aint as good as the best of all time just ain't fair.

Please find a little room in your heart and mind to show him a little love. Just a little bit.

 

[GetSpurredOn]

In a 4-3-3:

DM: New signing (someone mobile, who reads the game well and is at least decent on the ball), Skipp
2 CMs: Choose 2 from Ndombele, Lo Celso, Winks, Sissoko, Alli

This for me is the answer. I’d still hoped Dier could regain fitness and form, because I’d like a return to the option he gave us as DM who could drop deep to form a back three, allowing the fullbacks to push higher in the knowledge they are protected.
433 could flex to 343/3421/3412.
Dier as the DM, Winks and Ndombele either side of him. Sissoko, Lo Celso, Skipp and Alli as backup options, albeit Lo Celso and Alli would also be in the mix higher up the pitch.
Winks and Ndombele have enough all round game to flourish with more impact when relieved of some defensive shackles. Winks as a tempo setter, getting into pockets and dictating, Ndombele as a running threat carrying the ball.
This could also see out fullbacks offer more attacking width and threat if tasked with a back three behind them. Could see Foyth and Davies better used as wider CB’s too.

 

[idontgetit]

This for me is the answer. I’d still hoped Dier could regain fitness and form, because I’d like a return to the option he gave us as DM who could drop deep to form a back three, allowing the fullbacks to push higher in the knowledge they are protected.
433 could flex to 343/3421/3412.
Dier as the DM, Winks and Ndombele either side of him. Sissoko, Lo Celso, Skipp and Alli as backup options, albeit Lo Celso and Alli would also be in the mix higher up the pitch.
Winks and Ndombele have enough all round game to flourish with more impact when relieved of some defensive shackles. Winks as a tempo setter, getting into pockets and dictating, Ndombele as a running threat carrying the ball.
This could also see out fullbacks offer more attacking width and threat if tasked with a back three behind them. Could see Foyth and Davies better used as wider CB’s too.

100% this. January target should be top class DM, RB, CB and move on Eriksen, one of the CB's and any other players running down contracts or not playing.

 

[Deleted member 29446]

Another shitty performance from Winks. No coincidence our poor form started when Dembele left and we didn't replace him

 

[Blake Griffin]

Another shitty performance from Winks. No coincidence our poor form started when Dembele left and we didn't replace him

winks had effectively already replaced dembele by the time he left and our results and performances up to that point were fine, in fact they were more than fine as we were still hanging on to the back of a rampant city and liverpool. our form nose-dived after dembele left, is that a coincidence? i don't know, maybe. i would wager that if he was still here we would still be playing terribly, as unbelievable as it sounds i think our problems go beyond harry winks but of course lets just blame him for everything. it was probably his fault when we got steamrolled by brighton as well.

 

[Joely]

Don't think he is a crap player but at the same time don't think he is exceptional in any one area. Decent enough to have in and around the squad and fill in here and there but don't feel he is up to starting week in week out. Long term, hoping we get a new DM in to play alongside Ndombele and phase WInks and Sissoko out from the first team to squad players.

 

[sparx100]

I have no idea why he was replaced rather than Sissoko today. Not every midfielder is a creator/goal threat and it is not part of his make-up.

It shouldn't detract from his qualities though. He comes deep, takes the ball off the defence, is a tidy passer, makes himself available for others rather than stands waiting and he is generally a busy ****. He would be mustard in a 3 in my opinion.

Still our best central midfielder currently.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Nothing against the lad but I do think he’s very overrated on here. Saying if you don’t understand his role or what he brings you don’t understand football is a load of old cobblers. He’s a very robotic passer, gets dragged all over the place. I do have doubts About his game intelligence.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

He’s a lovely player. Passes the ball well. Shows for the ball. Reads the game and dictates the play and tempo well

Absolute waste of space in a game of walking football which is what we’ve turned into

Needs movement and options to pop it around
Big Ben couldn’t make this team tick at the moment!!

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

winks had effectively already replaced dembele by the time he left and our results and performances up to that point were fine, in fact they were more than fine as we were still hanging on to the back of a rampant city and liverpool. our form nose-dived after dembele left, is that a coincidence? i don't know, maybe. i would wager that if he was still here we would still be playing terribly, as unbelievable as it sounds i think our problems go beyond harry winks but of course lets just blame him for everything. it was probably his fault when we got steamrolled by brighton as well.

Losing Wanyama was huge and came at a really bad time.

Add go that Dier getting ill, Lo Celso getting Injured, we have had rotten luck really.

 

[Lifelong]

Harry winks is not the problem.....we need to find a system where he is an integral part...something we are currently struggling with. For me, as much as I admire sissoko’s work ethic I think playing him and winks together is an absolute no no. Winks is a starter all day long for me, we just need to find a system that works round that.