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Harry Winks - Leicester City

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,353
87,819
I wish we'd try him further up the pitch, its so detrimental to both him and the team putting him in front of the back 4 like that.
 

Glenn&Chris

Member
Oct 28, 2019
23
60
I wish we'd try him further up the pitch, its so detrimental to both him and the team putting him in front of the back 4 like that.

But what would he offer further up the pitch? He can't pick a meaningful forward pass as he hasn't got the vision or ability, he doesn't score goals as again he has not got the ability. So what is he? He keeps the ball moving and keeps possession, handy to have on the bench if we re 1 or 2 up with 20 mins to go or something and we need someone to help keep the ball but that is about it. No way should be starting for us.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,353
87,819
But what would he offer further up the pitch? He can't pick a meaningful forward pass as he hasn't got the vision or ability, he doesn't score goals as again he has not got the ability. So what is he? He keeps the ball moving and keeps possession, handy to have on the bench if we re 1 or 2 up with 20 mins to go or something and we need someone to help keep the ball but that is about it. No way should be starting for us.

He more than has the ability. DM neuters him.
 

Glenn&Chris

Member
Oct 28, 2019
23
60

He more than has the ability. DM neuters him.


Agree to disagree. He hasn't got it for me and certainly have not seen anything to suggest otherwise. I was at the Watford game in the south stand and on 3 different occasions Moura was making a run off the defender's shoulder and Winks Failed to see this every time. Instead a nice safe pass to a defender. He hasn't got the ability like Eriksen or even a Huddlestone. He just doesn't have it in his make up.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,353
87,819
Agree to disagree. He hasn't got it for me and certainly have not seen anything to suggest otherwise. I was at the Watford game in the south stand and on 3 different occasions Moura was making a run off the defender's shoulder and Winks Failed to see this every time. Instead a nice safe pass to a defender. He hasn't got the ability like Eriksen or even a Huddlestone. He just doesn't have it in his make up.
Agree... I disagree :D
 

John48

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2015
2,249
3,143
I wouldn't have taken him off for N'Dombele yesterday, it would have been Eriksen.

Agreed he wasn't great with the ball, but he was playing with far more energy than Eriksen & that's what we needed as we came under pressure. Aurier was increasingly exposed because Eriksen isn't a wide right player who works hard enough & when N'Dombele came on either he should have gone wide right or Sissoko leaving Winksin the centre.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
He just did. Versus Liverpool. At Anfield. Bar lamela everyone was available.

That kind of sums things up right now.

Not sure that is true.
Don’t think Ndombele or Lo Celso were really available to start, Tanguy does not have 2 games in a week in him yet.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Pains me to say but if we want to be title contenders he’s not good enough as a CDM. I think it’s just his physicality, you need an absolute beast in that position. He may be good enough wide in a 3 midfield. Was actually staggered he only had 35 touches yesterday less than Dele and Son. I know he got subbed but you’d expect your CDM to be having 60 - 90 touches they should have most of any player. Very good squad player but if we want to challenge he’s just not quite good enough.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,353
87,819
Just out of interest who would you drop to fit in Winks? Presuming you agree he cant play as DM and can't play as advanced as Son/Kane/Moura/Lamela. Where does he fit in?
He's a pivot. He shouldn't be protecting the back four, he should be dictating the play... e.g. Xavi/Modric/late-career Scholes etc.

Caveat: I'm am not saying he is at the same level as those excellent players, just as clearly identifiable examples of that position. Get the ball, give the ball, get the ball, give the ball, etc etc.
 

Glenn&Chris

Member
Oct 28, 2019
23
60
He's a pivot. He shouldn't be protecting the back four, he should be dictating the play... e.g. Xavi/Modric/late-career Scholes etc.

Caveat: I'm am not saying he is at the same level as those excellent players, just as clearly identifiable examples of that position. Get the ball, give the ball, get the ball, give the ball, etc etc.

What is a "pivot"? I also hear he's a transitional player whatever that means. The players you mention there Xavi/Modric, Scholes are play makers they also chip in with goals and assists. Winks has 2 goals in 4 years and 1 assist, I'm sorry but it is ridiculous to eve mention those greats with such an average player like Winks. Completely different players. We have seen first hand what a quality player Modric was, he was the assist before the assist. He would open up defenses, and make those incisive passes to tea up attacking opportunities. Winks simply hasn't got the ability to do this. Sideways and backwards..
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486

He more than has the ability. DM neuters him.


What on earth do you see to suggest Winks can play further up the pitch? He can't create, he can't score goals, he has got no flair, he doesn't ping through balls or comfortable playing in small triangles. No skills, no dribbling ability. Come on man, think about what you are saying here.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
11,234
46,574
He's a pivot. He shouldn't be protecting the back four, he should be dictating the play... e.g. Xavi/Modric/late-career Scholes etc.

Caveat: I'm am not saying he is at the same level as those excellent players, just as clearly identifiable examples of that position. Get the ball, give the ball, get the ball, give the ball, etc etc.
Lo Celso & Ndombele can do that and add to the attack. It’s useless to have a player who will only recycle possession and quite literally nothing else.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
He's a pivot. He shouldn't be protecting the back four, he should be dictating the play... e.g. Xavi/Modric/late-career Scholes etc.

Caveat: I'm am not saying he is at the same level as those excellent players, just as clearly identifiable examples of that position. Get the ball, give the ball, get the ball, give the ball, etc etc.
What is a "pivot"? I also hear he's a transitional player whatever that means. The players you mention there Xavi/Modric, Scholes are play makers they also chip in with goals and assists. Winks has 2 goals in 4 years and 1 assist, I'm sorry but it is ridiculous to eve mention those greats with such an average player like Winks. Completely different players. We have seen first hand what a quality player Modric was, he was the assist before the assist. He would open up defenses, and make those incisive passes to tea up attacking opportunities. Winks simply hasn't got the ability to do this. Sideways and backwards..

Exactly right. I mean it's crazy how someone can list those players in the same sentence as Winks. Absolutely mental. Those players were deep lying playmakers who used to cut teams open with passes from deep positions, and dictated play, also scored goals and created chances. Winks does nothing. He just sits there playing sideways passes to CBs and other midfielders.

We've had this discussion so many times, there is no such thing as just having a pivot player in a modern side without them offering particular attributes which make them as quality players. Winks is just average at everything, and poor at other things, but he excels at nothing. It's madness to even mention him in the same breath as world class players like Modric, because even if you are saying Winks isn't at the same level ability wise, you are implying that Winks is fulfilling the same role in the team as they did, but he isn't, because those world class players possessed world class attributes which made them excel in that role and which made managers build teams around them and be indispensable to their side.

It is nothing personal against Winks but he is a big part of the reason why we are struggling so badly. CM is a crucial position and our clueless coach seems to think he is a far better player than he actually is, and continually picks him in our strongest 11, and every week we just see Winks well out of his depth. ON a good day he's just 2019 Scott Parker, and a million miles way from the likes of Xavi, Scholes and Modric. (Just typing that last line out makes me LOL).
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
Well you keep telling yourself that. He's not shining in anything at the moment, and havn't for a long time.

By you he should shine when we're playing lesser teams at home. Ehh no.

That's exactly where his limits come to light.

Please tell us which players are shining currently in our squad. Eriksen was a waste of space against Liverpool unfortunately Lamela got a late injury . Team confidence is down but we could’ve won or drawn that game say if Son scored to make it two or Aurier wasn’t rash in conceding a penalty it’s such narrow margins.
 

Ben1

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
2,130
8,411
What on earth do you see to suggest Winks can play further up the pitch? He can't create, he can't score goals, he has got no flair, he doesn't ping through balls or comfortable playing in small triangles. No skills, no dribbling ability. Come on man, think about what you are saying here.
I think the main argument for playing Winks further up pitch is that he is a defensive liability when positioned deeper. I can't think of any positive reason for doing so, especially when we have GLC, Ndombele, Eriksen, Lamela, Moura, Son, Alli.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
I think the main argument for playing Winks further up pitch is that he is a defensive liability when positioned deeper. I can't think of any positive reason for doing so, especially when we have GLC, Ndombele, Eriksen, Lamela, Moura, Son, Alli.

Well exactly, it is a ridiculous argument. Winks just needs to be dropped and be used as a squad player who fills in when required but he is certainly not a first 11 level player. Anyone who wants to shoe horn him into an attacking role because they can't bear to see him dropped even though he offers nothing as an attacking player needs to be sectioned. We have an abundance of attacking players who are much better than Winks, even horribly under performing players like Alli and Eriksen are still better options.
 

Glenn&Chris

Member
Oct 28, 2019
23
60
Exactly right. I mean it's crazy how someone can list those players in the same sentence as Winks. Absolutely mental. Those players were deep lying playmakers who used to cut teams open with passes from deep positions, and dictated play, also scored goals and created chances. Winks does nothing. He just sits there playing sideways passes to CBs and other midfielders.

We've had this discussion so many times, there is no such thing as just having a pivot player in a modern side without them offering particular attributes which make them as quality players. Winks is just average at everything, and poor at other things, but he excels at nothing. It's madness to even mention him in the same breath as world class players like Modric, because even if you are saying Winks isn't at the same level ability wise, you are implying that Winks is fulfilling the same role in the team as they did, but he isn't, because those world class players possessed world class attributes which made them excel in that role and which made managers build teams around them and be indispensable to their side.

It is nothing personal against Winks but he is a big part of the reason why we are struggling so badly. CM is a crucial position and our clueless coach seems to think he is a far better player than he actually is, and continually picks him in our strongest 11, and every week we just see Winks well out of his depth. ON a good day he's just 2019 Scott Parker, and a million miles way from the likes of Xavi, Scholes and Modric. (Just typing that last line out makes me LOL).


This guy gets it... Agree with everything you have just said.

He is nothing more than a back up player. He is handy to have if you are 1 or 2 up and want to keep possession and see the game out and that is about it. No way should he be starting when you have the talent at your disposal we have.
 
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