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Player Watch Player Watch: Oliver Skipp

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
So just so I'm clear: We need to absolutely play Ndombele and Lo Celso whether it's a 2 or 3 and we desperately are crying out for a DM to go with these players but Wanyama is past it and Dier isn't good enough. We don't like Sissoko or Winks in that DM role either and Skipp is not a DM but desperately needs minutes because Poch is ruining his career but we absolutely need to play Ndombele and Lo Celso as much as we can either in a 2 or 3 and we desperately need a DM to go with those 2 but unfortunately Wanyama/Dier are no longer right for the role and neither are Sissoko or Winks and we shouldn't play Skipp there as he's not a DM but he desperately needs minutes and we absolutely need to play Ndombele and Lo Celso?
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,385
37,100
So just so I'm clear: We need to absolutely play Ndombele and Lo Celso whether it's a 2 or 3 and we desperately are crying out for a DM to go with these players but Wanyama is past it and Dier isn't good enough. We don't like Sissoko or Winks in that DM role either and Skipp is not a DM but desperately needs minutes because Poch is ruining his career but we absolutely need to play Ndombele and Lo Celso as much as we can either in a 2 or 3 and we desperately need a DM to go with those 2 but unfortunately Wanyama/Dier are no longer right for the role and neither are Sissoko or Winks and we shouldn't play Skipp there as he's not a DM but he desperately needs minutes and we absolutely need to play Ndombele and Lo Celso?

spot on apart from skipp is a dm, whether he’s good enough for whether he’s good enough no one knows yet
 

Windwarden

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
162
302
Lucas Kane Son
Ndombele Skipp Lo Celso
Sessegnon Sanchez Tatanka WalkerPeters
Gazzaniga

bench

Mama cass, papa dof, baby dof, klinsmann, the klansmen

manager
kraftwerk

in increasing order of tartrazine

uhhh. We need some players and stuff.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
So just so I'm clear: We need to absolutely play Ndombele and Lo Celso whether it's a 2 or 3 and we desperately are crying out for a DM to go with these players but Wanyama is past it and Dier isn't good enough. We don't like Sissoko or Winks in that DM role either and Skipp is not a DM but desperately needs minutes because Poch is ruining his career but we absolutely need to play Ndombele and Lo Celso as much as we can either in a 2 or 3 and we desperately need a DM to go with those 2 but unfortunately Wanyama/Dier are no longer right for the role and neither are Sissoko or Winks and we shouldn't play Skipp there as he's not a DM but he desperately needs minutes and we absolutely need to play Ndombele and Lo Celso?

Surely a bit of sarcasm there? How many Ndombeles and Lo Celsos does it take to turn on a light bulb?
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
I've got one, how many times do SC users have to contradict themselves just to have a cry about Poch.

Are you being sarcastic to one blogger that doesnt think Poch is doing a good job ,all the bloggers, or just a few?
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Are you being sarcastic to one blogger that doesnt think Poch is doing a good job ,all the bloggers, or just a few?

I'm not being specific I'm just seeing a general consensus of who we're failing to play which contradicts itself all over the forum because the majority have demanded that we play Lo Celso and Ndombele but are now spitting feathers that we've failed a 19 year old who plays that position. I'm aware having this many users yields different opinions but I see enough of the same names to know that people are just using this Skipp conversation to have a yet another moan much like they are in the Lo Celso/Ndombele threads.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
I'm not being specific I'm just seeing a general consensus of who we're failing to play which contradicts itself all over the forum because the majority have demanded that we play Lo Celso and Ndombele but are now spitting feathers that we've failed a 19 year old who plays that position. I'm aware having this many users yields different opinions but I see enough of the same names to know that people are just using this Skipp conversation to have a yet another moan much like they are in the Lo Celso/Ndombele threads.

So Ill just direct this at you. I am not.For me I think that Skipp deserves more time playing (we could afford it surely,our performances haven't been that great to warrant not trying something new from a player who has shown some very good work)
I however think Poch does lack some things,for instance he is very harsh on some players when it comes to disrespect while over respectful to others who don't seem to have earned it unless they play his game totally (That's my impression)
Id say Skipp is one of the former while Eriksen one of the latter for instance and if that's not a fact then at best he has been uneven in his choices.
Im not going to plonk myself in with others who think Poch is not doing a good job because until I know why they think the way they do,I cant make that connection. Just like that when you or anybody makes a statement about SC Bloggers who have a problem with Poch without knowing exactly why as Im sure they all have different reasons,why go to a blanket condemnation.
 
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wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
So Ill just direct this at you. I am not.For me I think that Skipp deserves more time playing (we could afford it surely,our performances haven't been that great to warrant not trying something new from a player who has shown some very good work)
I however think Poch does lack some things,for instance he is very harsh on some players when it comes to disrespect while over respectful to others who don't seem to have earned it unless they play his game totally (That's my impression)
Id say Skipp is one of the former while Eriksen one of the latter for instance

Skipp hasn't done anything disrespectful has he? Unless you mean Poch is being disrespectful to Skipp. You can't compare the Skipp situation to Eriksen. Lamela unfortunately keeps getting injured and Lo Celso was injured meaning we didn't really have anybody else to take over that particular role in the team other than Eriksen. Skipp has Winks, Sissoko, Ndombele infront of him and that's not even including now Lo Celso who can play that role. Maybe we should have replaced Eriksen with a different kind of player admittedly but I don't think he's being purposefully harsh on Skipp who unless he's the next guy we land on as we spin the wheel on who can play DM next is going to have a hard time getting in.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
Skipp hasn't done anything disrespectful has he? Unless you mean Poch is being disrespectful to Skipp. You can't compare the Skipp situation to Eriksen. Lamela unfortunately keeps getting injured and Lo Celso was injured meaning we didn't really have anybody else to take over that particular role in the team other than Eriksen. Skipp has Winks, Sissoko, Ndombele infront of him and that's not even including now Lo Celso who can play that role. Maybe we should have replaced Eriksen with a different kind of player admittedly but I don't think he's being purposefully harsh on Skipp who unless he's the next guy we land on as we spin the wheel on who can play DM next is going to have a hard time getting in.

He has no problem playing Sissoko at right back and for what I remember he used Son once as a quasi defender and there was a few other questionable choices. In my opinion Skipp has shown a few good reasons to be tried in different positions.He passes the ball well,he sees space well,he is a defender so he can defend.I cant see why he cant find any position where he could play Skipp eve if he moved Sissoko for instance forward or Ndombele more forward. I mean when you look at not only our results but our quality of play for most of this season you have to question what he is protecting.

I know Poch is great at certain things and not good a certain things,so i think its justified to criticize what we think is wrong with Poch. Southampton supporters said things after he left that one could ascertain were sour grapes but in fact they were right one about his subs.

Pochs demeanor has been terrible,he is creating pressure from the players because players look to the manager for strength and validation (most do) but he looks miserable half the time at least. The fact is he is stumped and why they do the things they do. Its not a conspiracy. Really nobody has to look that far to know
 
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wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
He has no problem playing Sissoko at right back and for what I remember he used Son once as a quasi defender and there was a few other questionable choices. In my opinion Skipp has shown a few good reasons to be tried in different positions.He passes the ball well,he sees space well,he is a defender so he can defend.I cant see why he cant find any position where he could play Skipp eve if he moved Sissoko for instance forward or Ndombele more forward. I mean when you look at not only our results but our quality of play for most of this season you have to question what he is protecting

Sissoko has only gone RB when we had injuries against Newcastle and Barca and the Son one was a mistake which happened 3 seasons ago and yet it's brought up continuously on here, It's clear he learn't from that one given it's never happened again but that won't stop people bringing it up. I think the problem Skipp will have in the midfield is he be left exposed with no proper DM next to him, now it's one thing to do that with experienced players like Winks, Sissoko but it's a bit harsh to put that amount of responsibility on a 19 year old who has barely played any games, I'd fear he'd be left hung out to dry. If we had a dm agree with you if you move Ndombele forward then you can fit a Winks/Skipp type in but then you're looking at a team like this:

DM Skipp
Lo Celso Ndombele Son
Kane

Now that to me looks like it'd end up being a diamond which everybody was extremely opposed to even though I'd say it looks like that's what we've bought players to do.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
Sissoko has only gone RB when we had injuries against Newcastle and Barca and the Son one was a mistake which happened 3 seasons ago and yet it's brought up continuously on here, It's clear he learn't from that one given it's never happened again but that won't stop people bringing it up. I think the problem Skipp will have in the midfield is he be left exposed with no proper DM next to him, now it's one thing to do that with experienced players like Winks, Sissoko but it's a bit harsh to put that amount of responsibility on a 19 year old who has barely played any games, I'd fear he'd be left hung out to dry. If we had a dm agree with you if you move Ndombele forward then you can fit a Winks/Skipp type in but then you're looking at a team like this:

DM Skipp
Lo Celso Ndombele Son
Kane

Now that to me looks like it'd end up being a diamond which everybody was extremely opposed to even though I'd say it looks like that's what we've bought players to do.

I don't suggest that. I suggest even playing Dier back in front of the back line,and Skipp or Winks next and Ndombele more forward.
Winks is not a DM but as a CM it might works and have NDombele forward from there.
Its all according how uch space we can use in the middle. NDombele opens up defences quickly but isnt the best to come back.
Skipp has a good eye for a pass (I think players either have it or they dont its a gift)
We have Dier,he isnt the best anymore but thats what we have. I think Skipp or Winks can get overun back there would like to see a more physical player (Its the number one thing we need. But would like to see Skipp or Winks in the middle and Ndombele or/and Lo Celso more forward.
Skipp should be part of the mix.
We have mustered little against often little teams,we need to bring some new energy in

As to the Diamond I couldnt really care what its called.Its a game of flex. You are controlling or you are being controlled its up to the players to make something happen under any of those formations. Its the efficacy of the players playing. Good players will use whatever space to make things happen or stop things from happening. Its more about movement.

Why did Poch push Ndombele up during the first half of the Bayern game and yet just keep Winks as the DM and we eventually got overun?
He got that wrong but Im sure probably felt it was NDombele not coming back although Ndombele was making things happen,Poch needed another idea to help the defence
 
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coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
How long was Winks with Seniors before he started his first PL game. Crazy Winks was actually nearly 21.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
How long was Winks with Seniors before he started his first PL game. Crazy Winks was actually nearly 21.

not long. he did train part-time with the 1st team before that but continued to play u23s right up until april 2016 by which time he was 20 years and two months. he then made his first pl start at 20 years 9 months. he benefited from not being one of poch's chosen ones(which at the time was onomah) so he was allowed to just get on with things whilst still playing regularly, had he been taken out of football at 17-18 then it may have went very differently for him.
 

Windwarden

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
162
302
not long. he did train part-time with the 1st team before that but continued to play u23s right up until april 2016 by which time he was 20 years and two months. he then made his first pl start at 20 years 9 months. he benefited from not being one of poch's chosen ones(which at the time was onomah) so he was allowed to just get on with things whilst still playing regularly, had he been taken out of football at 17-18 then it may have went very differently for him.

He probably benefitted from being a late developer or at least having a game that was less eye catching than Onomah. Kept him out of our development programme so he was able to develop. I’ve been wondering who he was competing with at the time he broke through... was it a similar situation to Kane, Mason, Bentaleb Etc where they weren’t really being promoted above others but the first team options were non-existent, not performing at all? It’s just that those players often get cited as a record of youth development and I feel it’s a bit revisionist when there was literally no other realistic option - may well not have been the case with winks, I don’t remember now, but I don’t recall any of our youth getting appearances unless it was that type of situation. Even Carroll got more of a chance than Onomah, and he was always benched immediately after outplaying the dreadful mids (bar dembele) we had at the time. I remember getting really excited seeing one of our midfielders hit a pass, only for them to get subbed. Actually, I remember now there was a similar amazement among the fans when winks started playing, that we might actually have a midfielder who can pass.

i don’t think it’s just us, it often takes some type of calamitous situation for youth players to benefit but I think we are certainly among the worst.
 
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Windwarden

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
162
302
I don't suggest that. I suggest even playing Dier back in front of the back line,and Skipp or Winks next and Ndombele more forward.
Winks is not a DM but as a CM it might works and have NDombele forward from there.
Its all according how uch space we can use in the middle. NDombele opens up defences quickly but isnt the best to come back.
Skipp has a good eye for a pass (I think players either have it or they dont its a gift)
We have Dier,he isnt the best anymore but thats what we have. I think Skipp or Winks can get overun back there would like to see a more physical player (Its the number one thing we need. But would like to see Skipp or Winks in the middle and Ndombele or/and Lo Celso more forward.
Skipp should be part of the mix.
We have mustered little against often little teams,we need to bring some new energy in

As to the Diamond I couldnt really care what its called.Its a game of flex. You are controlling or you are being controlled its up to the players to make something happen under any of those formations. Its the efficacy of the players playing. Good players will use whatever space to make things happen or stop things from happening. Its more about movement.

Why did Poch push Ndombele up during the first half of the Bayern game and yet just keep Winks as the DM and we eventually got overun?
He got that wrong but Im sure probably felt it was NDombele not coming back although Ndombele was making things happen,Poch needed another idea to help the defence

Do you not think Dier gets overrun though? He may be big but he rarely gets anywhere near the ball.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
Do you not think Dier gets overrun though? He may be big but he rarely gets anywhere near the ball.

Now yes he does a bit more. He did come off a big injury as well,but he is a DM,Winks isn't, Wanyama gave a worse showing. So yes we need a new DM and a quality one. If Winks was ahead of him and Ndombele ahead of Winks then there is protection there. I know Sissoko didn't play well there once before,maybe he could play that role if he was playing all the time and got used to the position.He is a tough tackler.
Tottenham seemed to be interested in Bruno Fernandes another central midfielder but no DM.Its baffling
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
not long. he did train part-time with the 1st team before that but continued to play u23s right up until april 2016 by which time he was 20 years and two months. he then made his first pl start at 20 years 9 months. he benefited from not being one of poch's chosen ones(which at the time was onomah) so he was allowed to just get on with things whilst still playing regularly, had he been taken out of football at 17-18 then it may have went very differently for him.

When you say “taken out of football at 17-18” it makes you realise how ridiculous Skipp Tanganga situation is cause that’s exactly what’s happened.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
Another youth player being crapply handled by Poch... *sigh*
 
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