The Race for the Title, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or even 6th Thread.

[thePessimist]

well we made the CL final a little over a year ago and now we have a much stronger team and squad (at least on paper) and possibly a couple more signings on the way. And we have a manager who has won 3 premier leagues and 2 champions leagues and is one of the best managers in the world. So I don’t see why we can’t aim for that.

Currently we struggle to beat anyone, we’re really poor all over the pitch and it’s difficult to see what the plan is. The signings we’ve made are exciting and hopefully we’ll grow massively as a unit this season, but I’m pretty sure this project will take some time. A cup is much more realistic for us

 

[ItsBoris]

Currently we struggle to beat anyone, we’re really poor all over the pitch and it’s difficult to see what the plan is. The signings we’ve made are exciting and hopefully we’ll grow massively as a unit this season, but I’m pretty sure this project will take some time. A cup is much more realistic for us

Ahhh it's just that we're not quite in our groove yet imo. We had good results at the end of the last season. You're right it'll take some time to gel but I think we can expect our play to improve quite quickly

 

[Thewobbler]

Early days but with bale and reg coming in and hopefully 1-2 more I firmly believe we will be back in the CL next season by getting top 4 and im much more confident we can finally get a trophy.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

Not every team is going to be as compliant as Southampton were on Sunday. We have some nice-looking names on paper, but in the real world we still have major issues on the pitch. For the life of me I can't understand where these fanciful notions of challenging for the title or finishing 2nd/3rd are coming from. They're totally at odds with what I see in our games and those of our supposed rivals.

 

[wpmcg]

Not every team is going to be as compliant as Southampton were on Sunday. We have some nice-looking names on paper, but in the real world we still have major issues on the pitch. For the life of me I can't understand where these fanciful notions of challenging for the title or finishing 2nd/3rd are coming from. They're totally at odds with what I see in our games and those of our supposed rivals.

I agree, top 6 at best. Our defence and midfield will get torn apart by good teams. I know we've got players to come in but I can't see top 4.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

well we made the CL final a little over a year ago and now we have a much stronger team and squad (at least on paper) and possibly a couple more signings on the way. And we have a manager who has won 3 premier leagues and 2 champions leagues and is one of the best managers in the world. So I don’t see why we can’t aim for that.

Because we don't exist in a bubble. Other teams were a lot better than us then, and have gotten better since. The fact we're just now improving doesn't automatically propel us ahead of the others.

 

[Mr Pink]

I think Lo Celso is going to be pivotal to our success this season.

He plays the majority of the league games and we'll be finishing top 3 imo.

 

[The Scarecrow]

I don't see any reason why we should finish behind Man Utd and Arsenal. So 4th for me. Not sure what to make of Chelsea either, but they've spent shitloads so...

 

[eddiev14]

I think Lo Celso is going to be pivotal to our success this season.

He plays the majority of the league games and we'll be finishing top 3 imo.

...and Ndombele. If both of those players stay fit and fulfil their potential then we’ve got a great chance, given the other players we have got in / and will hopefully be bringing in.

 

[Mr Pink]

...and Ndombele. If both of those players stay fit and fulfil their potential then we’ve got a great chance, given the other players we have got in / and will hopefully be bringing in.

Agreed. Just think Lo Celso is the crucial ingredient to our midfield.

 

[WiganSpur]

We're nowhere close to the top 3 unless Jose gets the CB and striker he needs. Get those and i'd say it's realistic to get top 4 and win one of the other three trophies up for grabs. I'll say at the minute we're finishing 5th-6th and with those two signings that takes us up a spot to 4th-5th. I'm more worried about Arsenal than Chelsea or Manchester United, but I think the latter will spend and if Arsenal get a couple of injuries then they might be in trouble.

 

[Matrix]

I think season will be so different to what we thing because of this pandemic. I wouldn’t be surprised is Everton won it we came second and Leeds third. You can see with the games so far that the teams can turn over anyone on their day. The Liverpool vs Leeds game was just the tip of the iceberg IMO.
Expect this to be similar to the Leicester season.

 

[Mr Pink]

We're nowhere close to the top 3 unless Jose gets the CB and striker he needs. Get those and i'd say it's realistic to get top 4 and win one of the other three trophies up for grabs. I'll say at the minute we're finishing 5th-6th and with those two signings that takes us up a spot to 4th-5th. I'm more worried about Arsenal than Chelsea or Manchester United, but I think the latter will spend and if Arsenal get a couple of injuries then they might be in trouble.

Arsenal have improved but it's not as much as being made out.

West Ham were the better side at the weekend.

With our new additions our squad is definitely superior.

Another CB, in particular for me, and we're in very strong shape.

 

[rossdapep]

I've been watching a few of those fan style podcasts (yeah, I know) and the general consensus is that Spurs are not top 4 quality and Cheslea, City, Liverpool are nailed on, followed by United if they make a couple of signings.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining as I like us to be under the radar. But I do find it a little odd that football fans tend to gloss over their massive short comings.

For example, Chelsea are practically nailed on for top 3/a push for the title. However, Lampard hasn't really proved that he's a coach who can really challenge. Last season they lost a final that they were favourites for and threw away 3rd spot (could have even been 4th spot).

Yes theyve signed some good players but as we've seen from Havertz so far, it's not easy and hes going to need to really improve to get them close to the top.

As for their squad. Let's compare to ours. I'm going to try compare like for like as best I can although I don't be able to in all positions due to system and player roles.

GK

Lloris or Mendy?

Mendy may come in and give them more solidity, however Lloris has been of the best GKs in Europe the past few years and it'll take something special to be better.

CBs

Thiago Silva may tip this in their favour if he adapts well. Although I'd be concerned with his opinion of long balls in the PL. I think we've all got CBs who are either decent or have weaknesses but maybe Jose swings this in our favour. Let's hope we can get a solid CB in.

FBs

Chillwell is very good but I'm not sure if he's outstanding enough, let's see how he adapts to a big move. James is looking to be a good youngster but is he the best defensively?

Doherty is obviously better going forward than defending yet I think his attacking potential gives us the edge but Reguilon could really help us trump them in this department plus we have better rotation options I feel.

MF

Whilst I think they are probably more settled and their base looks a little better with Kante, I do think once Lo Celso and Ndombele get rolling we will be much more tenacious, creative and decisive. Mount is talented but overhyped, whereas Havertz looks lightweight and Lampard needs to find a place for him. He will have to fire soon because that transfer free and expectation could be very heavy to carry around.

Attack

This is where I think we have the edge and where we've been written off too easily.

Abraham or Kane . Absolutely no contest. I'm not even going to bother comparing.

Son or Werner - Tighter but you can't turn your nose up at Son's numbers and kinds of goals he scores, Werner does look like he's going to be the better adapted player to the PL but he still needs to put up numbers like Son. - I was going to compare with Kane as I think he'll be considered their talisman but as hes playing on the left I changed my mind.

Bergwijn or Ziyech - both from the Dutch league. Both pulled up similar numbers in that league. However Bergwijn has already shown quality. Can Ziyech do the same or will he be another who struggles with the demand? I also think Bergwijn has more to his game.

Bale or Pulisic - If the Bale of 18 months ago turns up then we can't really compare. Pulisic is a fine player but can he reach Bale's levels? Can he win games the way Bale has and hopefully still can do? Can he be a big game player?

Lucas or Hudson Odoi - Very promising player vs a frustrating player, yet Lucas has shown his quality more frequently than Hudson Odoi who may even struggle for confidence thanks to Lampard putting false faith in him.

Giroud vs New Striker - This is the unknown for us. Giroud is a very useful player for Chelsea to have so we need to hope we bring in someone who can match that.

When you really compare and delve a little deeper I do believe that there's not a lot in it at all. Which is why I can't understand why Chelsea get spoken of as title challengers despite being very young and new. Yet Spurs, who have more experience and just as much quality (more successful coach too) are way off?

You could then compare us to United and the same woukd apply as we have more depth and there's not much in it.

 

[ItsBoris]

I've been watching a few of those fan style podcasts (yeah, I know) and the general consensus is that Spurs are not top 4 quality and Cheslea, City, Liverpool are nailed on, followed by United if they make a couple of signings.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining as I like us to be under the radar. But I do find it a little odd that football fans tend to gloss over their massive short comings.

For example, Chelsea are practically nailed on for top 3/a push for the title. However, Lampard hasn't really proved that he's a coach who can really challenge. Last season they lost a final that they were favourites for and threw away 3rd spot (could have even been 4th spot).

Yes theyve signed some good players but as we've seen from Havertz so far, it's not easy and hes going to need to really improve to get them close to the top.

As for their squad. Let's compare to ours. I'm going to try compare like for like as best I can although I don't be able to in all positions due to system and player roles.

GK

Lloris or Mendy?

Mendy may come in and give them more solidity, however Lloris has been of the best GKs in Europe the past few years and it'll take something special to be better.

CBs

Thiago Silva may tip this in their favour if he adapts well. Although I'd be concerned with his opinion of long balls in the PL. I think we've all got CBs who are either decent or have weaknesses but maybe Jose swings this in our favour. Let's hope we can get a solid CB in.

FBs

Chillwell is very good but I'm not sure if he's outstanding enough, let's see how he adapts to a big move. James is looking to be a good youngster but is he the best defensively?

Doherty is obviously better going forward than defending yet I think his attacking potential gives us the edge but Reguilon could really help us trump them in this department plus we have better rotation options I feel.

MF

Whilst I think they are probably more settled and their base looks a little better with Kante, I do think once Lo Celso and Ndombele get rolling we will be much more tenacious, creative and decisive. Mount is talented but overhyped, whereas Havertz looks lightweight and Lampard needs to find a place for him. He will have to fire soon because that transfer free and expectation could be very heavy to carry around.

Attack

This is where I think we have the edge and where we've been written off too easily.

Abraham or Kane . Absolutely no contest. I'm not even going to bother comparing.

Son or Werner - Tighter but you can't turn your nose up at Son's numbers and kinds of goals he scores, Werner does look like he's going to be the better adapted player to the PL but he still needs to put up numbers like Son. - I was going to compare with Kane as I think he'll be considered their talisman but as hes playing on the left I changed my mind.

Bergwijn or Ziyech - both from the Dutch league. Both pulled up similar numbers in that league. However Bergwijn has already shown quality. Can Ziyech do the same or will he be another who struggles with the demand? I also think Bergwijn has more to his game.

Bale or Pulisic - If the Bale of 18 months ago turns up then we can't really compare. Pulisic is a fine player but can he reach Bale's levels? Can he win games the way Bale has and hopefully still can do? Can he be a big game player?

Lucas or Hudson Odoi - Very promising player vs a frustrating player, yet Lucas has shown his quality more frequently than Hudson Odoi who may even struggle for confidence thanks to Lampard putting false faith in him.

Giroud vs New Striker - This is the unknown for us. Giroud is a very useful player for Chelsea to have so we need to hope we bring in someone who can match that.

When you really compare and delve a little deeper I do believe that there's not a lot in it at all. Which is why I can't understand why Chelsea get spoken of as title challengers despite being very young and new. Yet Spurs, who have more experience and just as much quality (more successful coach too) are way off?

You could then compare us to United and the same woukd apply as we have more depth and there's not much in it.

Absolutely agree but I will say you're lining up the comparisons somewhat favorably for us lol.

I would take their midfield, our attack, and our defense.

 

[Mr Pink]

I've been watching a few of those fan style podcasts (yeah, I know) and the general consensus is that Spurs are not top 4 quality and Cheslea, City, Liverpool are nailed on, followed by United if they make a couple of signings.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining as I like us to be under the radar. But I do find it a little odd that football fans tend to gloss over their massive short comings.

For example, Chelsea are practically nailed on for top 3/a push for the title. However, Lampard hasn't really proved that he's a coach who can really challenge. Last season they lost a final that they were favourites for and threw away 3rd spot (could have even been 4th spot).

Yes theyve signed some good players but as we've seen from Havertz so far, it's not easy and hes going to need to really improve to get them close to the top.

As for their squad. Let's compare to ours. I'm going to try compare like for like as best I can although I don't be able to in all positions due to system and player roles.

GK

Lloris or Mendy?

Mendy may come in and give them more solidity, however Lloris has been of the best GKs in Europe the past few years and it'll take something special to be better.

CBs

Thiago Silva may tip this in their favour if he adapts well. Although I'd be concerned with his opinion of long balls in the PL. I think we've all got CBs who are either decent or have weaknesses but maybe Jose swings this in our favour. Let's hope we can get a solid CB in.

FBs

Chillwell is very good but I'm not sure if he's outstanding enough, let's see how he adapts to a big move. James is looking to be a good youngster but is he the best defensively?

Doherty is obviously better going forward than defending yet I think his attacking potential gives us the edge but Reguilon could really help us trump them in this department plus we have better rotation options I feel.

MF

Whilst I think they are probably more settled and their base looks a little better with Kante, I do think once Lo Celso and Ndombele get rolling we will be much more tenacious, creative and decisive. Mount is talented but overhyped, whereas Havertz looks lightweight and Lampard needs to find a place for him. He will have to fire soon because that transfer free and expectation could be very heavy to carry around.

Attack

This is where I think we have the edge and where we've been written off too easily.

Abraham or Kane . Absolutely no contest. I'm not even going to bother comparing.

Son or Werner - Tighter but you can't turn your nose up at Son's numbers and kinds of goals he scores, Werner does look like he's going to be the better adapted player to the PL but he still needs to put up numbers like Son. - I was going to compare with Kane as I think he'll be considered their talisman but as hes playing on the left I changed my mind.

Bergwijn or Ziyech - both from the Dutch league. Both pulled up similar numbers in that league. However Bergwijn has already shown quality. Can Ziyech do the same or will he be another who struggles with the demand? I also think Bergwijn has more to his game.

Bale or Pulisic - If the Bale of 18 months ago turns up then we can't really compare. Pulisic is a fine player but can he reach Bale's levels? Can he win games the way Bale has and hopefully still can do? Can he be a big game player?

Lucas or Hudson Odoi - Very promising player vs a frustrating player, yet Lucas has shown his quality more frequently than Hudson Odoi who may even struggle for confidence thanks to Lampard putting false faith in him.

Giroud vs New Striker - This is the unknown for us. Giroud is a very useful player for Chelsea to have so we need to hope we bring in someone who can match that.

When you really compare and delve a little deeper I do believe that there's not a lot in it at all. Which is why I can't understand why Chelsea get spoken of as title challengers despite being very young and new. Yet Spurs, who have more experience and just as much quality (more successful coach too) are way off?

You could then compare us to United and the same woukd apply as we have more depth and there's not much in it.

I agree with you and that's a good comparison and you've been pretty objective.

Personally I think we have the edge over Chelsea and United and if Bale fires like we know he can we could end up being closer to the top two than these two.

Bale is a game changer. Not just his undoubted quality but that's three world class forwards and defenses won't know how to deal with that much quality coming at them.

 

[popstar7]

Watching Chelsea and United in their first games neither look better than last season. But they both have players coming back from injury and United will bring in premium players in the next few weeks. You have to think both will click at some point or even if they don't they'll clock up the points needed for top 4.

Doherty, Bale and Reguilon gives us a lot more going forward than we've had but if Winks and Sissoko are playing regularly for us this season and if the defence doesn't improve, either in personnel or just getting their shit together, we'll struggle. If Lo Celso and Ndombele are regulars, we've got a good chance at knocking either United or Chelsea out of contention.

 

[popstar7]

And we'll have to take more than the point we took off them from last season's four games. Home wins would have had us finishing on 64 pts, United on 65 and Chelsea on 63 and we'd be in the CL today.

 

[sparx100]

I think the game v Southampton and the scoreline has flattered us and peoples take on our squad.

Goalkeeper
Without a doubt we have a top goalkeeper in Lloris. There are not many better in the league. Hart/Gazza are fine as deputies but a step down if Hugo were not to play.

Defence
I am not sure how stable we are with Dier, Sanchez and Toby. We have Tanganga out but he is yet to be tested fully at this level. The other 3 however have flaws and in comparrison to our rivals we look average at best and in a high press we are so vulnerable. I just don't feel we are capable of keeping a clean sheet with any of them.

Our full back options may have improved slightly if Doherty starts to figure out his role and Reguilion replaces a hapless Davies.

Central Midfield is heavily flawed with Holjberg, Sissoko and Winks vying for a starting position alongside a hopefully fit Lo Celso who in my mind is the only decent starter and the player who can link midfield to attack. Holjberg has shown very little so far to suggest he is the answer to the defensive frailties that we have exposed and Winks/Sissoko offer very little defensively or going forward. N'Dombele will come good but will be introduced slowly by Mourinho. Holjberg, Lo Celso and N'Dombele is probably our best 3 but depthwise we are struggling.

Attack.
Kane, Son (when on form), Bale, Bergwijn, Lamela and Lucas - in that order currently. An abundance of attacking talent which is difficult to imorove upon. I can moan about the decision making of Son and Moura in particular but Son is unbelievable on his day.

In comparrison to our rivals, our defence and midfield doesnt favour comparably.

Man City and Liverpool have stronger options defensively and in midfield. Arguably goalkeepers are better than Hugo in both teams but they stand behind better defences.

Man United have a similar situation to us defensively but midfield wise are stronger defensively/offensively. Goalkeeper is weaker than us

Chelsea have options in defence but noone I would consider as exceptional. They can definitely improve at left back and probably need a commanding centre back. In Midfield again I think they are stronger than us and have a depth we do not have.

Arsenal have a decent keeper and potentially an improved defence but it is yet to be proven. Midfield wise i think that they have some options but they are generally weaker than most of the teams above. Attack wise if Aubameyang plays then they always have a chance.

I think Mourinho has been backed well by Levy but there are still flaws in the team. Defensively we definitely need a Centre Back who is going to be commanding and a leader. We need 2 midfielders one defneaive minded to compete with Holjberg and another to link midfield with attack a bit more. An injury to Holjberg and we are back to Winks and Sissoko. An injury to Lo Celso and we are back to Winks and Sissoko. Winks and Sissoko should not be near our first team generally.

I am not too worried about Everton even though they beat us. Defensively they will get exposed and they don't have enough up top to maintain a top 4 position. Wolves I think are weaker (but have less fixture congestion) and Leicester will struggle with Europa and squad depth.

I think if we can make a few more signings we have a good team to challenge top 4 with United and Chelsea being realistic targets to overtake , if not I think we will finish 5th or 6th.

 

[popstar7]

I think the game v Southampton and the scoreline has flattered us and peoples take on our squad.

Goalkeeper
Without a doubt we have a top goalkeeper in Lloris. There are not many better in the league. Hart/Gazza are fine as deputies but a step down if Hugo were not to play.

Defence
I am not sure how stable we are with Dier, Sanchez and Toby. We have Tanganga out but he is yet to be tested fully at this level. The other 3 however have flaws and in comparrison to our rivals we look average at best and in a high press we are so vulnerable. I just don't feel we are capable of keeping a clean sheet with any of them.

Our full back options may have improved slightly if Doherty starts to figure out his role and Reguilion replaces a hapless Davies.

Central Midfield is heavily flawed with Holjberg, Sissoko and Winks vying for a starting position alongside a hopefully fit Lo Celso who in my mind is the only decent starter and the player who can link midfield to attack. Holjberg has shown very little so far to suggest he is the answer to the defensive frailties that we have exposed and Winks/Sissoko offer very little defensively or going forward. N'Dombele will come good but will be introduced slowly by Mourinho. Holjberg, Lo Celso and N'Dombele is probably our best 3 but depthwise we are struggling.

Attack.
Kane, Son (when on form), Bale, Bergwijn, Lamela and Lucas - in that order currently. An abundance of attacking talent which is difficult to imorove upon. I can moan about the decision making of Son and Moura in particular but Son is unbelievable on his day.

In comparrison to our rivals, our defence and midfield doesnt favour comparably.

Man City and Liverpool have stronger options defensively and in midfield. Arguably goalkeepers are better than Hugo in both teams but they stand behind better defences.

Man United have a similar situation to us defensively but midfield wise are stronger defensively/offensively. Goalkeeper is weaker than us

Chelsea have options in defence but noone I would consider as exceptional. They can definitely improve at left back and probably need a commanding centre back. In Midfield again I think they are stronger than us and have a depth we do not have.

Arsenal have a decent keeper and potentially an improved defence but it is yet to be proven. Midfield wise i think that they have some options but they are generally weaker than most of the teams above. Attack wise if Aubameyang plays then they always have a chance.

I think Mourinho has been backed well by Levy but there are still flaws in the team. Defensively we definitely need a Centre Back who is going to be commanding and a leader. We need 2 midfielders one defneaive minded to compete with Holjberg and another to link midfield with attack a bit more. An injury to Holjberg and we are back to Winks and Sissoko. An injury to Lo Celso and we are back to Winks and Sissoko. Winks and Sissoko should not be near our first team generally.

I am not too worried about Everton even though they beat us. Defensively they will get exposed and they don't have enough up top to maintain a top 4 position. Wolves I think are weaker (but have less fixture congestion) and Leicester will struggle with Europa and squad depth.

I think if we can make a few more signings we have a good team to challenge top 4 with United and Chelsea being realistic targets to overtake , if not I think we will finish 5th or 6th.

Nailed it, mate. Good analysis.