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Race for The Top 10

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
If we cant get 5th i would like to skip European football. Just focus on league and cups next year and see where we end up.
You know... Europa League footie may not be so bad... I mean, for the players, yes... the long flights... for the club, less money... etc. BUt Jose knows how to win the Europa, and it would serve us well to win a competition we failed in SO many times.

The chances of making aother CL final are very slim. What's achievable in this epoch without spending much?
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
After the result last night I thought it was gone. Just looked at Leicester's fixtures though and with their form they are almost definitely catchable. To stand any chance though we might well need 7 wins, which is a very tall order...
Last night confirmed that we're not catching Chelsea. We're not picking up 9+ points on them now. So that means we've got to finish ahead of two of Leicester, Wolves and United to get 5th. Wolves and United do not look like slipping up any time soon and although Leicester do they've still got a comfortable 10 point lead over us. Realistically I don't think we will catch any unless there are some major injuries in the next couple of weeks. 7th and Europa League (providing a top 6 team win the FA Cup) is the most likely outcome.

Also, no way we're winning every game until the end of the season.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
Everyone at the club knows the tough situation we came back into. The damage from the injuries at the turn of the year was just too much. The key is to end strongly and carry some momentum into next season. If we do that then we can be positive going into next season, regardless of what European football (if any) we end up playing.

If we can get a strong haul at the end of this season, say going undefeated in this 9 game spell, racking up a good number of wins, Jose will be using that to really build them up ahead of next season.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
Next season is all down to how you look at things - what hat you're wearing.

There's absolutely no way we're getting CL football. Apart from the financial hit, which will be massive, I'm ok with this. Don't think the club/team is capable of competing there yet.

Europa you can take either way. There's a chance we'll get it. If we do - it could be an unwelcome distraction. A lot of travel. Not much money. A lot more games to add to a busy schedule. On the other hand, it is some more money, even if not much. It is a little better for the club in terms of prestige compared to no Euro football at all. It's a chance for different players to get playing time. Jose has won the competition and knows what it takes - it could be seen as a genuine route to silverware and a CL spot.

Depending on what we do or don't qualify for, I think Jose will make it his priority to win one of the lesser trophies next season. If we're in the EL, I think he'll go all out to win that. If we don't qualify for it, it'll be the League Cup he'll push for - as he has done in his first season at every club.

Frankly if we win something I will be through the roof, don't care what it is or what other fans say. It's been too long without silverware and a very dangerous attitude - that we're somehow too good for some competitions - was fostered in the club by Poch (one of his few real mistakes IMO). That attitude is not healthy for any club and it's done real damage to the fan mentality too IMO - this must be stamped out as soon as possible. Winning counts. That's all. You cannot demote trophies as being unimportant to your club when you've won fuck all for 12 years and lost your record of success over decades as we did between 2010 - 2020. That one fact was a disgrace.

We need to win things. It's the only way the club will grow and genuinely have a future at the top. Arsenal, and ourselves in the last 12 months, have proven that regular CL qualification on it's own means absolutely nothing beyond the financial rewards - it's winning things that counts.
 

SUIYHA

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2017
1,723
8,579
Pretty much every UEFA/Europa campaign starts with people saying we "have a chance to win it" but the reality has been very far from the case. We've played in ten Europa/UEFA Cup campaigns since I've been following the club, but have failed to reach even the QF stage in eight out of 10 and have never gotten past the QFs. All I can think about when I think of Europa League football is getting knocked out by teams that our players and fans clearly considered beneath us like Gent, Basel, Panathinaikos, Rubin Kazan and Shakhtar. We lost to Dortmund in 2015 and Sevilla in 2007 but even teams who were hardly seen as tournament favourites like Benfica, Fiorentina and Besiktas have looked like world beaters against us.

It's much tougher to win the Europa League than people think. And it's barely worth it - there's little financial incentive and little exposure - nobody that isn't playing in it watches anything before the semi-finals which we've not reached since 1984. The Champions League spot for the winners has helped but it's still a massively high risk strategy to go all out for it unless you are struggling domestically.

Depending on summer transfer activity though, it might well make sense to see how our young players bed in - Sessegnon, Ndombele, Skipp, Gedson, Tanganga and Clarke could all have done with some low pressure, low risk games to show what they can do - after all it was the Europa League where Kane built his confidence and showed Poch that it was worth dropping Adebayor to give this young kid a go. But don't get cocky and start thinking we'd immediately be amongst the favourites - at the moment if we were to draw Man Utd, Leicester or even Wolves in a two-legged knockout tie, would you bet big money on us going through?
 

ILS

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
3,803
6,913
I switched streams on Monday night from Sky to NBC and the contrast between Tyler and whoever the fuck does commentary on NBC was stark.

Tyler is a rambling mess of a commentator these days.
The only joy I can take from Liverpool winning the league was that it was on BT and i didn't have listen to Tyler talk utter tripe as per norm.

He is the worst Commentator currently on TV and as for 'It's Live' I would love nothing more then an opportunity to turn the saying sideways and shove it up his candyass!
 

DiVaio

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2020
4,173
17,393
But don't get cocky and start thinking we'd immediately be amongst the favourites - at the moment if we were to draw Man Utd, Leicester or even Wolves in a two-legged knockout tie, would you bet big money on us going through?
Especially with Mourinho, yes.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
I would prefer no Europa next season.

One game a week - Jose will hopefully sort the team out.

We’ve a squad built for European football though. Without that we will have to sell players. For example, sessegnon can’t even get a game now, what are his chances without European football. If we aren’t in the CL, as much as I don’t like it, we need to be in the EL.

There’s meant to be a third European competition soon isn’t there. I wonder when that starts.
 

ILS

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
3,803
6,913
I would prefer no Europa next season.

One game a week - Jose will hopefully sort the team out.
I would suggest that if Jose can get us into the Europa League he will see that as the top priority probably even more so then Top four.

Win us a trophy and back in the CL...Tick!
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
Pretty much every UEFA/Europa campaign starts with people saying we "have a chance to win it" but the reality has been very far from the case. We've played in ten Europa/UEFA Cup campaigns since I've been following the club, but have failed to reach even the QF stage in eight out of 10 and have never gotten past the QFs. All I can think about when I think of Europa League football is getting knocked out by teams that our players and fans clearly considered beneath us like Gent, Basel, Panathinaikos, Rubin Kazan and Shakhtar. We lost to Dortmund in 2015 and Sevilla in 2007 but even teams who were hardly seen as tournament favourites like Benfica, Fiorentina and Besiktas have looked like world beaters against us.

It's much tougher to win the Europa League than people think. And it's barely worth it - there's little financial incentive and little exposure - nobody that isn't playing in it watches anything before the semi-finals which we've not reached since 1984. The Champions League spot for the winners has helped but it's still a massively high risk strategy to go all out for it unless you are struggling domestically.

Depending on summer transfer activity though, it might well make sense to see how our young players bed in - Sessegnon, Ndombele, Skipp, Gedson, Tanganga and Clarke could all have done with some low pressure, low risk games to show what they can do - after all it was the Europa League where Kane built his confidence and showed Poch that it was worth dropping Adebayor to give this young kid a go. But don't get cocky and start thinking we'd immediately be amongst the favourites - at the moment if we were to draw Man Utd, Leicester or even Wolves in a two-legged knockout tie, would you bet big money on us going through?

I think your last couple of paragraphs suggested it probably is worthwhile over the balance of things. I think I'm content either way, but I'd love to see us go far in it and blood more youngsters.

The performance of English teams in the EL has increased significantly since the addition of a CL place for the winner. This happened since we left it (barring the time we dropped out of the group stages and were high up in the PL, so I'm not sure the comparison with our prior EL form applies. Harry and Poch didn't take it seriously at all.

As you said Europa gives a better chance for the likes of Sess, Tanganga, Parrott, Clarke, even the likes of Ndombele and Gedson. The added experience could be useful for us, especially with the injury record of key players.

But don't get cocky and start thinking we'd immediately be amongst the favourites - at the moment if we were to draw Man Utd, Leicester or even Wolves in a two-legged knockout tie, would you bet big money on us going through?

Surely this applies to every other competition we are playing in too? It's not like we'd suddenly be favourites for the PL title with no European football. It could give us a better run at domestic cups, but there is rarely anyone as good as City or Liverpool in the EL.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
Next season is all down to how you look at things - what hat you're wearing.

There's absolutely no way we're getting CL football. Apart from the financial hit, which will be massive, I'm ok with this. Don't think the club/team is capable of competing there yet.

Europa you can take either way. There's a chance we'll get it. If we do - it could be an unwelcome distraction. A lot of travel. Not much money. A lot more games to add to a busy schedule. On the other hand, it is some more money, even if not much. It is a little better for the club in terms of prestige compared to no Euro football at all. It's a chance for different players to get playing time. Jose has won the competition and knows what it takes - it could be seen as a genuine route to silverware and a CL spot.

Depending on what we do or don't qualify for, I think Jose will make it his priority to win one of the lesser trophies next season. If we're in the EL, I think he'll go all out to win that. If we don't qualify for it, it'll be the League Cup he'll push for - as he has done in his first season at every club.

Frankly if we win something I will be through the roof, don't care what it is or what other fans say. It's been too long without silverware and a very dangerous attitude - that we're somehow too good for some competitions - was fostered in the club by Poch (one of his few real mistakes IMO). That attitude is not healthy for any club and it's done real damage to the fan mentality too IMO - this must be stamped out as soon as possible. Winning counts. That's all. You cannot demote trophies as being unimportant to your club when you've won fuck all for 12 years and lost your record of success over decades as we did between 2010 - 2020. That one fact was a disgrace.

We need to win things. It's the only way the club will grow and genuinely have a future at the top. Arsenal, and ourselves in the last 12 months, have proven that regular CL qualification on it's own means absolutely nothing beyond the financial rewards - it's winning things that counts.

Im absolutely desperate for us to win something. Don’t care whichever trophy it is. We need to win one soon. Personally it’s so I can banish the champions league final memories. Other fans will only be jealous, that’s all. Ignore them.
 

carpediem991

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2011
8,836
20,308
If we can not reach the Champions League who are we to decline Europa League?

get it on. Maybe some fresh opponents, new challenges and a cup to win. Our squad is quite big and more games means more games for the likes of Sess, Skipp, Japhet or hopefully Parrott.
Take it seriously and go for the win. I want us to win something really bad. The Poch era was nice and had awesome games and moments. But looking back it feels a bit like unfinished business.
 
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SUIYHA

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2017
1,723
8,579
Especially with Mourinho, yes.

Hmmm.....even he can't work complete miracles. I'll give him a pass for Leipzig this season given the injuries we had, but he's had a few absolute mares in Europe in the last few years. Chelsea throwing away a lead twice at home to go out to a PSG side that played 90 minutes with ten men and that game where Sevilla knocked United out at Old Trafford after they barely had a shot at goal spring to mind.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,562
We’ve a squad built for European football though. Without that we will have to sell players. For example, sessegnon can’t even get a game now, what are his chances without European football. If we aren’t in the CL, as much as I don’t like it, we need to be in the EL.

There’s meant to be a third European competition soon isn’t there. I wonder when that starts.
The Europa Conference League starts in the 21/22 season, we've got one more season with the old bloated Europa League before it's trimmed down from today's 48 teams to 32, and the ECL starts up with 32 teams.

From what I've heard this isn't confirmed yet but the spot which in England is allocated to the League Cup winner will go into the ECL, while 5th place and the FA Cup winner will stay in the EL. How that works out if both cup winners finish top five I would assume 6th stays in EL and 7th goes to ECL.

I agree that a squad like ours has to be in the EL, otherwise a lot of players will never get a game and that's the worst of all worlds.
 

Wadec

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2014
1,761
5,434
We are way too far off the real top teams in this league to benefit from no European football and potential title challenges. City are possibly going to be only competing domestically next season and Liverpool have dropped 7 points this season too much ground to make up.

We are not winning the title next season, domestic cups are going to be tougher than usual if City arent in Europe. Lets give the Europa a good go, think we could have a real crack at winning it. It's easy to look back at our record there and not fancy it but I think we are a much better team these days with a manager who has shown how to win that exact competition.

For me it is a no brainer and that's without how important it could be for some of our younger and fringe players getting game time.
 

ILS

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
3,803
6,913
If we can not reach the Champions League who are we to decline Europa League?

get it on. Maybe some fresh opponents, new challenges and a cup to win. Our squad is quite big and more games means more games for the likes of Sess, Skipp, Japhet or hopefully Parrott.
Take it seriously and go for the win. I want us to win something really bad. The Poch era was nice and had awesome games and moments. But looking back it feels a bit like unfinished business.
Also by being in the Europa, especially the group stages allows for players like Kane and Son to be rested which wouldn't be the case if we were in the Champions League.

Up to February it may benefit us massively in the league and by that time when we get to the knockout stages, Jose can make those big decisions when to play specific players in what game depending on the importance.
 

Cochise

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
4,763
12,519
I'd just like to see us play twice a week. No midweek football would be bloody boring, but then again, with the way next year will go we could be better off without too many extra games.

We would need to win every game that we have left in order to be in with a shout of getting fifth that year, which is technically doable but I can't see happening. Even were it to happen, we need to see UTD and Wolves both drawing a few games. I can see that happening with Wolves, but not UTD.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,646
Pretty much every UEFA/Europa campaign starts with people saying we "have a chance to win it" but the reality has been very far from the case. We've played in ten Europa/UEFA Cup campaigns since I've been following the club, but have failed to reach even the QF stage in eight out of 10 and have never gotten past the QFs. All I can think about when I think of Europa League football is getting knocked out by teams that our players and fans clearly considered beneath us like Gent, Basel, Panathinaikos, Rubin Kazan and Shakhtar. We lost to Dortmund in 2015 and Sevilla in 2007 but even teams who were hardly seen as tournament favourites like Benfica, Fiorentina and Besiktas have looked like world beaters against us.

It's much tougher to win the Europa League than people think. And it's barely worth it - there's little financial incentive and little exposure - nobody that isn't playing in it watches anything before the semi-finals which we've not reached since 1984. The Champions League spot for the winners has helped but it's still a massively high risk strategy to go all out for it unless you are struggling domestically.

Depending on summer transfer activity though, it might well make sense to see how our young players bed in - Sessegnon, Ndombele, Skipp, Gedson, Tanganga and Clarke could all have done with some low pressure, low risk games to show what they can do - after all it was the Europa League where Kane built his confidence and showed Poch that it was worth dropping Adebayor to give this young kid a go. But don't get cocky and start thinking we'd immediately be amongst the favourites - at the moment if we were to draw Man Utd, Leicester or even Wolves in a two-legged knockout tie, would you bet big money on us going through?
I've always been frustrated by our endeavours in the Europa. Plenty of occasions we should have done much better. Certainly the years under Harry, AVB and Poch. However, I imagine behind the scenes the priority was top 4. Therefore under Poch and Arry you could say they were both right as it elevated the club on both occasions.

I believe Jose won't have that mentality. It could be a slow burner and I don't expect us to blitz through it but I do think he'll be much more pragmatic. For example, if we were to quality from the group stage, he'll take into account..
League position
Health of the squad
Form
Depth in squad

Whereas Harry didn't care about Europa, AVB didn't plan accordingly and Poch always prioritised the PL.

Jose is a better manager of these situations.

The Gent result was a major disappointment though, we had a really serious chance of winning it that year. The league run did kind of put it to the backs of our minds but I think we could easily have made the final had we been more focused on it
 

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
10,836
33,607
I would prefer no Europa next season.

One game a week - Jose will hopefully sort the team out.

Normally I'd agree with you but I think we don't even have an outside chance of winning the title and the club desperately needs the money.

Let's try and win it.
 
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