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Match Ratings Ratings vs Burnley

MOTM

  • Lloris

  • Trippier

  • Toby

  • Verts

  • Davies

  • Dier

  • Dembele

  • Eriksen

  • Dele

  • Son

  • Kane

  • Sissoko

  • Winks

  • Sanchez


Results are only viewable after voting.

OPModric

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2010
1,100
2,448
The AVB/Redknapp lovechild

OK, so it's taken me a while to calm down enough to type something vaguely like an appraisal of what I saw. That was nothing to do with Wembley, that was just a manifestation of all the worst ingredients of Poch, scrambled in an omelette and then puked up in our laps.

It was the cliche'd game of two halves, the first half dedicated to AVB, the second to Redknapp.

But lets be honest, we've seen similar games under Poch before, not always that bad, and not always all in the same game, but it's been coming IMO. In fact, if we go back to the beginning of last season, or even the game against Burnley at WHL last season, there were very similar tropes.


There were games last season where a couple of us were making unhappy noises about how we managed games, but because we got the rub in those games (or one of our forward players came up with some goods) it was "FFS BC or MP we won, just enjoy it blah blah" but we escaped quite a few games like today last season and it masked some repetitive failings.

And it's worth pointing out that Poch's end game tactics last week saw a similar result. he took off our LB, went with the chaos theory and came unstuck as the game got all Redknapp on him

What we have is a good collective ethos that often does a good job of pulling an invisibility blanket over some individual failings.

Alli for a start. The team do a lot of work around him, and he pops up and scores and takes the glory, and that often betrays the utter bollocks he produces for big chunks of games. I do not believe that even a goal or an assist always justifies 85 minutes of sloppy, careless, disregard for the team. The boy needs to realise just producing a moment isn't enough at this level, he has to show a bit of intellect too. Him coughing up the ball for fuck all just puts everyone around him under pressure, most of all the FB's who we know are told to bomb on, his pressing is lethargic too at times, lets people off the hook.


It's repetitive, but you cannot ignore the Dier/Dembele issue. When we need some tempo, some incision, some vim, these two are like a fucking mogadon overdose. There are times when passes are on which will break lines and channels, but these two won't make that pass unless it's close by and in their direct tunnel vision, the opposition get set and the door closes. And when our CBs have the ball, and the opposition are pressing, these two have a nasty habit of hiding behind an oppo, resulting in too many long balls being hit by the CB's and possession lost.

And then when we have the lead and a bit of safe possession is needed, these two just shrink backwards and stop wanting to play altogether. I honestly couldn't tell if we just went 3CB or Dier just went native, because with him they are very similar.

The first half was very typical of that AVB type stuff we see from Poch's Spurs a lot. The second half just got worse, the CM's hiding from the ball, the tactics and subs that were supposed to help just made things worse, how was Sissoko's inability to control and pass the ball going to help us control and see that game out ? Why the fuck was Eriksen taken off but Alli and/or Kane left on ? The combination of an inconspicuous midfield, Alli and Kane pissing away the ball with team mates bombed up, left Burnley players to run at exposed defenders and even a team as offensively shit as Burnley managed to capitalise.

And finally Trippier, who will no doubt be the scourge of the thread, primarily because he got caught the way we've seen our attacking FB's (Rose, Waller, Tripper) frequently caught with their pants down as one of our forwards is busy fucking away the ball. When we were winning 57 straight games 17-0 at the end of last season (inc Arsenal, ManU etc) with Trippier in the side there was no effigies of him being burnt. There is absolutely no doubt that offensively he's better than Walker in just about every way, but (@Mr Pink some cedage coming up) there has always been an argument to be had on whether Walker's pace and power gave him a defensive edge, allowed his body to write some wrongs that his brain rote. That may well be the case, but unlike many I don't seem to be able to obliterate the many, many fuckbombs Walker consistently dropped defensively in his own trench over the years, and was still doing it on his very last game for us. And that's ignoring Walker's favourite trick of pissing the ball away repeatedly with a poor pass or mis-control when we'd bombed forward; Trippier isn't all round wonder bread for sure, and given a season of him I might be prepared to have him tarred and feathered too, but just because he has a bad half, doesn't make everything the Walker fan boys say true, or mean his offensive edge isn't worth some small sacrifice, it's something that Poch needs to manage, just as Poch got Walker playing in a less libellous way.

And I have always been a bigger fan of KWP than both Walker and Trippier and said so many times, and picked him ahead of Tripper this week in my team for this week. Which tells you where I rank Trippier long term.

I saw this coming, said so a while back, even the ManU's, ManC's, Chelsea's and Arsenal's are struggling in this league to maintain consistent top 3 challenges, and I think we are due an iffy season, circumstances would seem to dictate it. Poch should have used this season to finally integrate the likes of KWP and Onomah, take a short term hit if necessary for a medium/long term gain. As it is he may end up achieving neither talented kid integration or league success.

For me though, the most immediate surgery needed is to our midfield, we most show more bollocks and ambition from midfield, but it must be coached and tactically managed to not be a huge compromise, but I'd still take that compromise than the compromises we have now.

Problem is, it's the only position Poch doesn't seem to be looking to strengthen, whether from home grown allotment or shop bought.

Individual.

Lloris was better this week.

Vertonghen driving forward was my MOTM


The rest - meh.

Bolded part spot on!
 

SoulDog

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2005
3,620
590
I did not see the game and I am quite glad i did not go now but what i want to know is why poch has gone back to 4231 and not 3421 ?
 

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
The AVB/Redknapp lovechild

OK, so it's taken me a while to calm down enough to type something vaguely like an appraisal of what I saw. That was nothing to do with Wembley, that was just a manifestation of all the worst ingredients of Poch, scrambled in an omelette and then puked up in our laps.

It was the cliche'd game of two halves, the first half dedicated to AVB, the second to Redknapp.

But lets be honest, we've seen similar games under Poch before, not always that bad, and not always all in the same game, but it's been coming IMO. In fact, if we go back to the beginning of last season, or even the game against Burnley at WHL last season, there were very similar tropes.


There were games last season where a couple of us were making unhappy noises about how we managed games, but because we got the rub in those games (or one of our forward players came up with some goods) it was "FFS BC or MP we won, just enjoy it blah blah" but we escaped quite a few games like today last season and it masked some repetitive failings.

And it's worth pointing out that Poch's end game tactics last week saw a similar result. he took off our LB, went with the chaos theory and came unstuck as the game got all Redknapp on him

What we have is a good collective ethos that often does a good job of pulling an invisibility blanket over some individual failings.

Alli for a start. The team do a lot of work around him, and he pops up and scores and takes the glory, and that often betrays the utter bollocks he produces for big chunks of games. I do not believe that even a goal or an assist always justifies 85 minutes of sloppy, careless, disregard for the team. The boy needs to realise just producing a moment isn't enough at this level, he has to show a bit of intellect too. Him coughing up the ball for fuck all just puts everyone around him under pressure, most of all the FB's who we know are told to bomb on, his pressing is lethargic too at times, lets people off the hook.


It's repetitive, but you cannot ignore the Dier/Dembele issue. When we need some tempo, some incision, some vim, these two are like a fucking mogadon overdose. There are times when passes are on which will break lines and channels, but these two won't make that pass unless it's close by and in their direct tunnel vision, the opposition get set and the door closes. And when our CBs have the ball, and the opposition are pressing, these two have a nasty habit of hiding behind an oppo, resulting in too many long balls being hit by the CB's and possession lost.

And then when we have the lead and a bit of safe possession is needed, these two just shrink backwards and stop wanting to play altogether. I honestly couldn't tell if we just went 3CB or Dier just went native, because with him they are very similar.

The first half was very typical of that AVB type stuff we see from Poch's Spurs a lot. The second half just got worse, the CM's hiding from the ball, the tactics and subs that were supposed to help just made things worse, how was Sissoko's inability to control and pass the ball going to help us control and see that game out ? Why the fuck was Eriksen taken off but Alli and/or Kane left on ? The combination of an inconspicuous midfield, Alli and Kane pissing away the ball with team mates bombed up, left Burnley players to run at exposed defenders and even a team as offensively shit as Burnley managed to capitalise.

And finally Trippier, who will no doubt be the scourge of the thread, primarily because he got caught the way we've seen our attacking FB's (Rose, Waller, Tripper) frequently caught with their pants down as one of our forwards is busy fucking away the ball. When we were winning 57 straight games 17-0 at the end of last season (inc Arsenal, ManU etc) with Trippier in the side there was no effigies of him being burnt. There is absolutely no doubt that offensively he's better than Walker in just about every way, but (@Mr Pink some cedage coming up) there has always been an argument to be had on whether Walker's pace and power gave him a defensive edge, allowed his body to write some wrongs that his brain rote. That may well be the case, but unlike many I don't seem to be able to obliterate the many, many fuckbombs Walker consistently dropped defensively in his own trench over the years, and was still doing it on his very last game for us. And that's ignoring Walker's favourite trick of pissing the ball away repeatedly with a poor pass or mis-control when we'd bombed forward; Trippier isn't all round wonder bread for sure, and given a season of him I might be prepared to have him tarred and feathered too, but just because he has a bad half, doesn't make everything the Walker fan boys say true, or mean his offensive edge isn't worth some small sacrifice, it's something that Poch needs to manage, just as Poch got Walker playing in a less libellous way.

And I have always been a bigger fan of KWP than both Walker and Trippier and said so many times, and picked him ahead of Tripper this week in my team for this week. Which tells you where I rank Trippier long term.

I saw this coming, said so a while back, even the ManU's, ManC's, Chelsea's and Arsenal's are struggling in this league to maintain consistent top 3 challenges, and I think we are due an iffy season, circumstances would seem to dictate it. Poch should have used this season to finally integrate the likes of KWP and Onomah, take a short term hit if necessary for a medium/long term gain. As it is he may end up achieving neither talented kid integration or league success.

For me though, the most immediate surgery needed is to our midfield, we most show more bollocks and ambition from midfield, but it must be coached and tactically managed to not be a huge compromise, but I'd still take that compromise than the compromises we have now.

Problem is, it's the only position Poch doesn't seem to be looking to strengthen, whether from home grown allotment or shop bought.

Individual.

Lloris was better this week.

Vertonghen driving forward was my MOTM


The rest - meh.
Some fantastic points in there, @Bus-Conductor. Tainted by the tripe about Trippier and Walker, but everything else is bang on.

I did not see the game and I am quite glad i did not go now but what i want to know is why poch has gone back to 4231 and not 3421 ?
Unless it is down to injuries/lack of squad depth, it is a total mystery.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
3421 isn't going to help us without pacey full backs, it just means that Davies and Trippier start further up the pitch which inevitably means that they need to be more effective in the final 3rd by creating their own space (neither of them do that) and it also means that they need to run further back in defensive transition and neither of them are blesses with pace.

Get Rose back on the pitch and Aurier deal done and you'll see a completely different team IMO.
 

SoulDog

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2005
3,620
590
I did not watch the game yesterday but to be fair tripper and davied played pretty far up the pitch against chelsea . I think they can do it, the way trippier can whip a ball in i think it could work well.
 

Tottenham_God

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2011
2,935
5,617
I feel like central midfield is far more of an issue for us right now than fullbacks.

Why is Winks not starting? Fitness?
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
Not sure how you get match fit by not playing matches though, this was Burnley ? Not quite the same test as Chelsea. Not even on the bench ?

He was uncharacteristically poor against Chelsea though. I guess the coaching team felt it was better he built up his fitness in training rather than the match - I noticed he got pulled from the Kenyan squad as well.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I don't really understand why Kane isn't getting more flak for that equaliser. Trying to see a 1-0 out with 2 minutes to go and he has two good options, take the ball to the corner or play a relatively simple pass to Winks. Not for the first time in the match he fucks up and gives the ball away and allows them to counter on us. And Alli did exactly the same twice the previous 3/4 minutes, once being saved last ditch by Lloris I think (or maybe that was a few minutes earlier.

Then you look at those freeze frames and see three players watching Brady instead of engaging him.
 

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
I don't really understand why Kane isn't getting more flak for that equaliser. Trying to see a 1-0 out with 2 minutes to go and he has two good options, take the ball to the corner or play a relatively simple pass to Winks. Not for the first time in the match he fucks up and gives the ball away and allows them to counter on us. And Alli did exactly the same twice the previous 3/4 minutes, once being saved last ditch by Lloris I think (or maybe that was a few minutes earlier.

Then you look at those freeze frames and see three players watching Brady instead of engaging him.
Alli and Kane were like tits on a bull for the last 15 mins. Ball after ball went up to Kane and he lost every duel, IIRC. They did not press, they looked like they were utterly fagged out.
 
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