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Ratings Vs Man Utd

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 36 7.7%
  • Walker

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Dawson

    Votes: 17 3.6%
  • Chiriches

    Votes: 106 22.7%
  • Rose

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 87 18.6%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 6 1.3%
  • Erikson

    Votes: 93 19.9%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 106 22.7%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 11 2.4%

  • Total voters
    467

markieboy

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2013
1,356
1,471
Didn't seem to do Suarez any harm.

I don't have a problem asking a player to apologise to his teammates in the changing room or informally,just standing up in the group and saying sorry.....................standing on a platform like a criminal is not the same thing.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I don't have a problem asking a player to apologise to his teammates in the changing room or informally,just standing up in the group and saying sorry.....................standing on a platform like a criminal is a different level altogether.

I'd have Defoe standing on platform apologising after most games.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
Didn't seem to do Suarez any harm.




Apparently , according to Windy (COYS) in April 2012 (not long before he was sacked) Redknapp said Adebayor would never play for him again after Redknapp singled him out for criticism following our slump at the end of that season and they had a row.

http://www.tottenhamhotspurs.tv/forum/players-lounge/27695-possible-harry-adebayor-bust-up.html

http://www.givemesport.com/186923-spurs-striker-deal-in-doubt-after-training-ground-bust-up


It was also reported in the Mail as referenced in one of those articles.

We also had ITK in the summer that a lot of the players didn't like him much.


City virtually paid us to take him off their hands. When you consider how good Adebayor can be, I don't think it is beyond the realm of comprehension to understand why or how AVB and him fell out.

I am a huge fan of Adebayor's ability and really wish AVB had felt able to use him more, I think it could have made a big difference to our play and AVB's job. Just imagine the results and performances for Sherwood so far without Adebayor. But I can easily envisage a scenario where a manager puts his authority and the group harmony above a talented player in Adebayor's case. It would hardly be a first in his case.

Yeah he's clearly no angel and has had plenty of previous. I can understand a manager putting their authority to the rest of the group and the harmony within the group above a highly talented but potentially problematic player like Adebayor - if indeed those things are being truly threatened.. That said we don't know the extent of the problem and if AVB should of tried to reconcile the differences for the good of the team.

Just because he has previous doesn't mean every situation is the same, even if he is the common denominator.

Who knows, but he's clearly trying his heart out now under Sherwood and that's all you can judge - what happens on the pitch, all the stuff behind closed doors is guess work even if it does raise an eyebrow or two.

And to be fair its not like AVB doesn't have a little previous either, and look at all the battles he was currently entangled in before he left - the press, the dig at the fans, ITK on problems with Sherwood/Baldini/Levy.....fuck even the medical team.
 
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Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Yeah he's clearly no angel and has had plenty of previous. I can understand a manager putting their authority to the rest of the group and the harmony within the group above a highly talented but potentially problematic player like Adebayor - if indeed those things are being truly threatened.. That said we don't know the extent of the problem and if AVB should of tried to reconcile the differences for the good of the team.

Just because he has previous doesn't mean every situation is the same, even if he is the common dominator.

Who knows, but he's clearly trying his heart out now under Sherwood and that's all you can judge - what happens on the pitch, all the stuff behind closed doors is guess work even if it does raise an eyebrow or two.

And to be fair its not like AVB doesn't have a little previous either, and look at all the battles he was currently entangled in before he left - the press, the dig at the fans, ITK on problems with Sherwood/Baldini/Levy.....fuck even the medical team.


Heaven forbid a football manager should tell a shit stirring Mail journalist where to get off.
 

Chris12

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2013
7,293
13,252
Yeah he's clearly no angel and has had plenty of previous. I can understand a manager putting their authority to the rest of the group and the harmony within the group above a highly talented but potentially problematic player like Adebayor - if indeed those things are being truly threatened.. That said we don't know the extent of the problem and if AVB should of tried to reconcile the differences for the good of the team.

Just because he has previous doesn't mean every situation is the same, even if he is the common denominator.

Who knows, but he's clearly trying his heart out now under Sherwood and that's all you can judge - what happens on the pitch, all the stuff behind closed doors is guess work even if it does raise an eyebrow or two.

And to be fair its not like AVB doesn't have a little previous either, and look at all the battles he was currently entangled in before he left - the press, the dig at the fans, ITK on problems with Sherwood/Baldini/Levy.....fuck even the medical team.
To be fair, our medical teams not looking to great right now...
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
Heaven forbid a football manager should tell a shit stirring Mail journalist where to get off.

Just making the point that AVB had plenty of differences with people around him. Not saying he wasn't right to put Ashton in his place, but perhaps a little unwise to let everybody see how it was getting to him.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Just making the point that AVB had plenty of differences with people around him. Not saying he wasn't right to put Ashton in his place, but perhaps a little unwise to let everybody see how it was getting to him.

Agree, but hardly a case of him falling out with people, more a case of him saying what hundreds of other managers wish they could.

I'm sure he wasn't perfect, but lets face it. We've heard plenty of stuff about Sherwood's ability to stir it and fall out with people too. It's just the nature of the game and a manager is under more pressure than anyone in a crazy business.

Sherwood has clearly been after the job, so I don't blame AVB for being wary of the guy. Freund wasn't AVB's appointment either, and whilst he comes across as a loveable bellend that might not have been AVB's choice, so again why should he tolerate him. AVB's tenure started with rumours that Levy mugged him off with the pretend attempt to sign Moutinho and finished with Levy demanding Adebayor be integrated. If I was a manager I wouldn't be happy with either situation.

And re our "was he sacked, was he pushed" conversation, there was ITK yesterday that suggested he was effectively sacked.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
Not
Agree, but hardly a case of him falling out with people, more a case of him saying what hundreds of other managers wish they could.

I'm sure he wasn't perfect, but lets face it. We've heard plenty of stuff about Sherwood's ability to stir it and fall out with people too. It's just the nature of the game and a manager is under more pressure than anyone in a crazy business.

Sherwood has clearly been after the job, so I don't blame AVB for being wary of the guy. Freund wasn't AVB's appointment either, and whilst he comes across as a loveable bellend that might not have been AVB's choice, so again why should he tolerate him. AVB's tenure started with rumours that Levy mugged him off with the pretend attempt to sign Moutinho and finished with Levy demanding Adebayor be integrated. If I was a manager I wouldn't be happy with either situation.

And re our "was he sacked, was he pushed" conversation, there was ITK yesterday that suggested he was effectively sacked.

Yeah, no arguments from me on that...you'll always have disputes/disagreements in any workplace, let alone this field.

I just think Adebayor is a seriously talented player. Could be one of the best uber forwards in world football if he had the hunger to be and its crying shame that we don't see the current Ade on a more consistent basis.

Very interested to see if Sherwood can 'handle' him and keep him performing. If he does, and he stays fit, we have a good chance of finishing in the top 4 - I rate Adebayor that highly.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,774
99,336
I like this from Sherwood on Ade (really do like his straight talking)

Sherwood went on: "He has a real desire to want to play at the moment and he is one of the top players in this division.

"I am not going to worry about how he was treated. I am only worried about how I treat him now. I will show him the respect he deserves as long as he continues to show that respect to me."
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
Doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was pretty widely reported. Point is, at least two managers have refused to play him. He's clearly got issues, everyone can see this.

I am an Adebayor fan, I don't need convincing about his ability, but I also don't need convincing as to how or why he might alienate a manager. He's done it before.

Pretty widely reported?

You've quoted a Tottenham fans forum and an article that is a rehash of the Daily Mail. That's not 'widely reported', that's gossip.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Pretty widely reported?

You've quoted a Tottenham fans forum and an article that is a rehash of the Daily Mail. That's not 'widely reported', that's gossip.


Believe it, don't believe it, personally I don't find it a big stretch.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Has your theory changed on what happened with Moutinho?

It was hardly "my theory". It was either a genuine attempt or not. I found it hard to believe but not impossible, and still have no idea what the truth was. I think more relevant is the fact that the story was out there and if most of us had heard it, it's quite likely AVB has, which if he has can't be great for the relationship between him and Levy, unless AVB knows for sure it's bollocks, in which case you have to wonder why the rumour was put out there.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
It was hardly "my theory". It was either a genuine attempt or not. I found it hard to believe but not impossible, and still have no idea what the truth was. I think more relevant is the fact that the story was out there and if most of us had heard it, it's quite likely AVB has, which if he has can't be great for the relationship between him and Levy, unless AVB knows for sure it's bollocks, in which case you have to wonder why the rumour was put out there.

Theory was the wrong word, I know it wasn't a theory you made up. We talked at length (argued) about it last season and I was wondering if you had changed your opinion on it since. That's why I asked. I wasn't encouraged by the story that AVB accepted what he was working with in the interview for the position, using the youth etc and then went into a meeting with Levy, Sherwood et al and barked that he wanted Hulk, Moutinho and Anderson.

I don't believe all the rumours can be true, but I'm still not and never will be Levy's biggest fan.
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
Doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was pretty widely reported. Point is, at least two managers have refused to play him. He's clearly got issues, everyone can see this.

I am an Adebayor fan, I don't need convincing about his ability, but I also don't need convincing as to how or why he might alienate a manager. He's done it before.

Translate this position into any normal workplace though.

Most people who have managed a group of people have come across the 'difficult' person, and in extreme situations a decision has to be made whether you get rid of (sack) the person or whether the employees performance in performing their requiredv tasks is so good that you reach a compromise with the difficult employee so that he stays. Diffucult to do, but that's what good magers do.

For those who haven't managed - its pretty certain that you don't like everyone you work or study with, however most people find a way to tolerate (even be be polite) to that person, sometimes that means a period of outright confrontation which then simmers down to mutually ignoring the other, whatever.

Either way the good man manager should find a way to deal with Adebayor (or move him on if someone better was in the squad), not leave him hangining about : the latter does nobody any good. From the reports above HR's desire to ask Adebyor to go to QPR after a bust up at Spurs shows that he had found the right sort of compromise needed to get the player he wanted. AVB took a less mature attitude to the Adebayor problem, didn't solve it, and ultimately the lack of Adebayor's goals probably played some part (likely small) in AVB's exit - and rightly so (in the sense that as manager he did not deal with a significant problem)
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Translate this position into any normal workplace though.

Most people who have managed a group of people have come across the 'difficult' person, and in extreme situations a decision has to be made whether you get rid of (sack) the person or whether the employees performance in performing their requiredv tasks is so good that you reach a compromise with the difficult employee so that he stays. Diffucult to do, but that's what good magers do.

For those who haven't managed - its pretty certain that you don't like everyone you work or study with, however most people find a way to tolerate (even be be polite) to that person, sometimes that means a period of outright confrontation which then simmers down to mutually ignoring the other, whatever.

Either way the good man manager should find a way to deal with Adebayor (or move him on if someone better was in the squad), not leave him hangining about : the latter does nobody any good. From the reports above HR's desire to ask Adebyor to go to QPR after a bust up at Spurs shows that he had found the right sort of compromise needed to get the player he wanted. AVB took a less mature attitude to the Adebayor problem, didn't solve it, and ultimately the lack of Adebayor's goals probably played some part (likely small) in AVB's exit - and rightly so (in the sense that as manager he did not deal with a significant problem)


I think it is impossible to say any more without knowing what went on. We are already well into guesswork and bullshit rumour and floating our own theories.

As I have repeatedly said, I have always been a huge fan (and defender at times) of Adebayor's ability. But his character/mentality is a thing of flux. More than half this forum would have given him away last summer. I always hoped he'd be rehabilitated into the group and play a part. I think he could have helped us and AVB no end.

You look at some of the best managers. Ferguson has fucked off quite a few players for personality/non football reasons (Beckham, Stam to name two), Mourinho refused to play Casillas last year. It happens.

You take a view depending on the circumstances. As much as I rate Adebayor, I rated AVB as more important long term. In my case I would have backed him, but that's easy for me to say. I don't have to reconcile paying a player 100+K a week to twiddle his thumbs.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Theory was the wrong word, I know it wasn't a theory you made up. We talked at length (argued) about it last season and I was wondering if you had changed your opinion on it since. That's why I asked. I wasn't encouraged by the story that AVB accepted what he was working with in the interview for the position, using the youth etc and then went into a meeting with Levy, Sherwood et al and barked that he wanted Hulk, Moutinho and Anderson.

I don't believe all the rumours can be true, but I'm still not and never will be Levy's biggest fan.


If AVB made unreasonable demands, having had the budget/development remit explained to him properly then he's a a bit of a prick. And I also said that at the time.

The big question is, was everything explained to him ? Was he told Modric wouldn't be replaced with Moutinho but would be replaced with Dembele (not even close IMO). That VDV would be replaced with Demspey and/or Sigurdsson (even less close) ? Who fucking knows ?
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
.

, but that's easy for me to say. I don't have to reconcile paying a player 100+K a week to twiddle his thumbs.

But IMO that is the very point.

Once AVB knew that Adebayor was staying he needed to find a way to get him to work as there were no other good striking/goalscoring options. If Spurs had had lots of other goalscoring alternatives, AVB could have (but would have probably been unwise to) deal with Adebayor in the way he did.

But without an alternative good goalscorer........the saying 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' comes to mind.
 
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