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Realistic expectations for 2020-21?

stov

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,353
6,112
Serious Football fans do. We certainly used to, as did the 100k that used to turn up.
Our club certainly does, look on our website, Community Shield is listed under Major Honours, Peace Cup is not.
But not having actually been in one for 29 years, because you have to win something first to qualify for it, sort of puts a dampener and current belittling on that for fans of clubs like ours doesn't it.

OK Arsenal have regressed under Kroenke you could say based on League positions, although their trophy count holds up very much so. (7 in 9 years, as opposed to 1 in 19 years of our ownership)
However in the same way though you could say Spurs have massively regressed under Levy. Under him our trophy win rate per annum is at least 4 times worse than any chairman we have had since the second world war.

What do you judge success by. Well actually being a football club, and the history of the club, I judge it by trophies won.
If Tottenham Hotspur Football Club were a property company (and to be honest, we are not far off being that) then we may have won a couple of best stadium of the year trophies, and could celebrate that, but we aren't

Any reasonably genuine Spurs fan can name every year we have won a trophy in our history, if in say 10 years time I gave a fan a season and asked them where did we finish in the League this year or last year, the majority won't be able to tell me, because if you don't win it is totally irrelevant.
You miss the important fact that football has moved on in recent years. Trophies are mainly won by the financially doped clubs now or those with a long tradition of winning with massive fanbases. It is increasingly difficult to compete with Man City or the likes with unlimited resources. We need the infrastructure in place to compete long term. We have it now thanks to levy. We need to be patient and put faith that in the next 5 to 10 years we will be a force. What's the alternative? Spend money above what we can't really afford in the hope of winning something (Leeds!). Sustainable improvement over boom and bust.
 

Only 1 Spurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
642
421
To have a board that is fully on the same page as the manager and backs him all the way. To finish top 6 win the Europa.
 

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
9,675
3,091
On the face of it I agree with your concerns, but I’d suggest that if the Højbjerg signing means we no longer see the Wimks-Sissoko pivot, we will regain the ball in better areas and then use the ball better too which in turn should allow the creative players more opportunity to create from better starting points. This should mean that we provide Kane and Son with more goalscoring opportunities as both they and the creative players will be in better circumstances to produce that opportunity than they would’ve been when relying on last seasons faulty central engine room.

Add in to that just the familiarity factor (pre lockdown Kane and Lo Celso had only really started a handful of games together at a point that the matter was still getting up to speed) and I think we’ll be better going forward generally.

I see your point, but I don't think the PEH influence can have anywhere near enough impact.

Our best goal scoring season was 2016/17, when we scored 86. If we are going to make an impact at the top of the league we've got to get back around those numbers. Last season we scored just 61.

In 2016/17 we had 669 shots. Last season we had just 444. So to get back to scoring a sufficient amount of goals, we've got to be having about another 200 shots compared to last season. That's a huge leap.

I'm really concerned that we don't seem to be being linked with a creative player. Lo Celso has never been that creative. At Betis he created 0.8 chances per game in La Liga. That's nowhere near enough to replace Eriksen. To me Gio has to be seen as a CM and we need a real creative spark to play in Eriksen's position.

Personally, I think a creative player is more important than a back up striker, CB or FB. Yet ITK suggests were are looking at the other areas and not the creative role.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
You miss the important fact that football has moved on in recent years. Trophies are mainly won by the financially doped clubs now or those with a long tradition of winning with massive fanbases. It is increasingly difficult to compete with Man City or the likes with unlimited resources. We need the infrastructure in place to compete long term. We have it now thanks to levy. We need to be patient and put faith that in the next 5 to 10 years we will be a force. What's the alternative? Spend money above what we can't really afford in the hope of winning something (Leeds!). Sustainable improvement over boom and bust.

Sounds that you have fallen for the stories hook line and sinker.

Massive flaws in your theory though, the large profits (over £400m in 3 seasons), the ego-project that was the stadium where we spent in region of a good quarter of a billion more than we needed to. The money has been there, we chose not to spend it.

The club under current ownership will never spend what we need, or has available, on players. All they are interested in is a massive annual return on their investment. They will aim to do just enough to get us Champions League Football, nothing more, nothing less.

You say we need to be patient for another 5 or 10 years in blind hope. Is that the same blind hope you have had for the last 10 years and has delivered the square root of fuck all ? Sorry it is the sort of attitude that has given Levy such an easy ride, despite us being perennial losers due to his under-investment. There have only been 2 winners at the club in the 19 years, it is not the fans, who now pay the highest prices in the world to see us play in a soulless bowl, it is not the players, it is certainly not the trophy cabinet makers, it is Levy and Lewis.
 
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stov

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,353
6,112
Sounds that you have fallen for the stories hook line and sinker.

Massive flaws in your theory though, the large profits (over £400m in 3 seasons), the ego-project that was the stadium where we spent in region of a good quarter of a billion more than we needed to. The money has been there, we chose not to spend it.

The club under current ownership will never spend what we need, or has available, on players. All they are interested in is a massive annual return on their investment. They will aim to do just enough to get us Champions League Football, nothing more, nothing less.

You say we need to be patient for another 5 or 10 years in blind hope. Is that the same blind hope you have had for the last 10 years and has delivered the square root of fuck all ? Sorry it is the sort of attitude that has given Levy such an easy ride, despite us being perennial losers due to his under-investment. There have only been 2 winners at the club in the 19 years, it is not the fans, who now pay the highest prices in the world to see us play in a soulless bowl, it is not the players, it is certainly not the trophy cabinet makers, it is Levy and Lewis.
Soulless bowl description just shows your bias. Why don't we just sell it and use the money to buy loads of players and play at Coles Park. Sell off the training ground and buy neymar.
 

Gardham90

Junior Member
Aug 2, 2010
517
1,150
I see your point, but I don't think the PEH influence can have anywhere near enough impact.

Our best goal scoring season was 2016/17, when we scored 86. If we are going to make an impact at the top of the league we've got to get back around those numbers. Last season we scored just 61.

In 2016/17 we had 669 shots. Last season we had just 444. So to get back to scoring a sufficient amount of goals, we've got to be having about another 200 shots compared to last season. That's a huge leap.

I'm really concerned that we don't seem to be being linked with a creative player. Lo Celso has never been that creative. At Betis he created 0.8 chances per game in La Liga. That's nowhere near enough to replace Eriksen. To me Gio has to be seen as a CM and we need a real creative spark to play in Eriksen's position.

Personally, I think a creative player is more important than a back up striker, CB or FB. Yet ITK suggests were are looking at the other areas and not the creative role.

I absolutely agree with this. We need a creative player in. And that's assuming N'Dombele stays and becomes the player we all hope. If not then we need two.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
We have, for all intents and purposes, probably just been knocked out of the League Cup. Round Three and Round Four are officially scheduled for midweeks where we'll be playing in Europa League Qualifying, so we're gonna have a stupidly packed schedule for the start of the season between the September and October international breaks!

Saturday 12/09: Premier League
Thursday 17/09: Europa League Second Qualifying Round
Sunday 20/09: Premier League
Tuesday 22/09: EFL Cup Round Three
Thursday 24/09: Europa League Third Qualifying Round
Sunday 27/09: Premier League
Tuesday 29/09: EFL Cup Round Four
Thursday 01/10: Europa League Playoff Round
Sunday 04/10: Premier League

With those double-header midweeks, we're going to have to field at best a mixture of fringe and youth players in the EFL Cup - and we're the only English team in European qualifying who therefore has this problem.

 
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Adam Zampa

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2017
206
828
Is selling aurier and buying dodo from Shakhtar, and bringing in Azmoun from Zenit realistic?
If so, that's what I want.
 

Kingellesar

This is the way
May 2, 2005
8,706
9,209
Busy schedule = big squad required. Think a lot of the fringe players will be getting more game time this year. Bit weird we sent out Parrott on loan and looking to loan out Skipp, would've thought those 2 would have got a good run out in the Europe League and League Cup early on.

Hopefully we can bring in another couple more players as well as keeping most of the current squad together because one thing we never seem to learn every summer is squad depth, I think Mourinho will know it will be key particularly with the schedule that faces us.

I'm hopeful for a top 6 with a cup. Obviously Europa League is the one we all want as it provides us with a route back to the Champions League but at this stage, any cup would do me, need to get that weight lifted off of our shoulders and stop rival fans constantly bringing it up about how long it is since we won a trophy. If we win a cup but fail to get CL, it wouldn't be a failure, we would have to look at it as a step in the right direction and then hopefully the following season be ready to get back to the top. It's going to be a weird season for everyone though, how clubs can handle squad management with such a packed schedule will be key.

Look at Liverpool this season, tried to play the same XI week in, week out, yes they won the league but they went out much earlier in every other competition and in the end just stumbled around without breaking all the records they were expected to.
 

Chirpystheman

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2019
501
1,610
That schedule is crazy. Suppose alot will depend on the draw for what we can achieve. If we get home ties in the qualifying we should be alright if we end up having to travel to other side of europe could be in trouble. However if we can get lucky in league cup draw early on, there is no reason why we cant do similar to what united did in their first season under Jose and win EL and LC. Both are achievable and with the fixture congestion could see some big casualties early on. We have squad capable of navigating september. Alot will depend on fixture list. Id be happier to sacrifice the LC if it comes to it however think we will be ok. Could help us with match sharpness.
 
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