Realistic expectations for 2020-21?

[Bobbins]

Depends on who we sell and bring in and how quickly.

If we have a grade A window and get in RB, CB, DM, AM, ST and do the majority of the key business early I think we could make top 3 and win a trophy.
Grade B window with only 3/5 players signed and some dead wood hanging around and majority of deals done late (after season has started) I think top 4-6 and a semi-final or possibly a final
Grade C window only 2-3 players signed and lots of dead wood left and/or doing lots of deals late then I think top6 will be the maximum and a similar season to the one we just had.

I'm optimistic for a good summer given how pragmatic and detailed Jose is I'm hoping that will dovetail better with Levy getting shit done and quickly.

What makes you think we'll sign more than 2-3 players? There are no signs that we'll be signing anything like 4-6 players, that's crazy.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Lampard achieved par with Derby and finished 4th without a trophy at a Chelsea side who had finished 3rd and won the Europa league the previous season. Yes he lost Hazard but he gained Pulisic, Abraham, James, Mount and Tomori, the latter four of which were clearly premier league ready. Credit to him for trusting them ahead of more established players on the wane, but I really think it’s premature to start lauding him as a genius.

He’s clearly got something about him and I reckon he’ll do well, but the adulation for him is massively over the top. Eddie Howe is the same age and has achieved tonnes more despite what happens this season.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Lampard achieved par with Derby and finished 4th without a trophy at a Chelsea side who had finished 3rd and won the Europa league the previous season. Yes he lost Hazard but he gained Pulisic, Abraham, James, Mount and Tomori, the latter four of which were clearly premier league ready. Credit to him for trusting them ahead of more established players on the wane, but I really think it’s premature to start lauding him as a genius.

He’s clearly got something about him and I reckon he’ll do well, but the adulation for him is massively over the top. Eddie Howe is the same age and has achieved tonnes more despite what happens this season.

Yea all fair points really, I think he's done a B+ job this season, nothing spectacular but nothing bad either, he's a clever guy and with the money he's being given to re-build I think he'll continue to do even better, same with Ole. The PL is so so competitive now, I hope we can really prioritise the cups and try to clinch top 4.

 

[cliff jones]

Clearly scope for an overhaul, I’d bin Lamela and Dele as well as Tanguy if José ain’t gonna pick him. Assuming decent ish offers come in.

but back in the real world, Levy will over price outgoings so we won’t shift m/any so insufficient funds will be made available to sign the players we need to stay ahead of Scum and Wolves let alone challenge higher.

so 5 or 6 again, and no trophy.

Jose will hopefully force bigger sales next summer if he’s still here, at which point he could invest meaningful money to put his own team out there.

happy days

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Yea all fair points really, I think he's done a B+ job this season, nothing spectacular but nothing bad either, he's a clever guy and with the money he's being given to re-build I think he'll continue to do even better, same with Ole. The PL is so so competitive now, I hope we can really prioritise the cups and try to clinch top 4.

I think we’ll be fine. As for Lampard, he may deny it, but I’d say that he needs to be seen to challenge for the title next season and win it by 2022 for him to be at Chelsea any longer than 3 years, and that’s because of his legendary status at the club. Most managers would get another 1/3 of the season from this point and if not too 2, they’d be out. With the money he’s throwing at players now, he’ll be expected to win. Conte, Mourinho, Sarri, Ancelotti, Di Matteo, they all got the sack after achieving real success. 3rd and a domestic cup next season for Chelsea will start the clock ticking. In fact, not looking like fighting for the title by ten games in will start the clock ticking.

 

[Bobbins]

I've not said we will sign more than 2-3 players but I said that to have a top top window we would need to ideally sign 3-5, I didn't mention 4-6. I explained the positions we need to strengthen.

To be honest I don't think signing more than 2-3 players is ridiculously unrealistic from what the ITK's have been saying and from the positions we've been linked with it looks roughly like we are looking at:
RB : Celik
CB : Kim-Min Jae
DM : Hojbjerg
ST : Wilson

Add to that we've been linked with some AM's and also a possible swap for Ndombele so I think IF we can sell the players we're looking to ship out + the ones who've already left such as:
Vorm
Aurier
KWP
Jan
CCV
Foyth
Rose
Skipp (loan)
Amos
Ndombele???
Lamela?
Parrott (loan)

Then thats a fair few players off the wage bill and/or sold for transfer fees, if we can do that then I don't think bringing in say 4 targets is massively unrealistic tbh, ITK's have also said Jose has set very realistic player targets so it should be a case of as he said getting a more balanced squad rather than going out and buying top quality like we arguably tried to do last summer with GLC, Ndombele and Dybala/B.Fernandes, we've splashed the cash on 2x £40-60m players, one worked out and the other not so much so far so now the key is to plug the gaps with weaknesses to have a more balanced all-round squad.

What makes you think signing more than 2-3 players is so 'ridiculously unrealistic'?

*drops mic and walks off*

Right so you're a classic Football Manager supporter who thinks we'll sell about 37 players, likes to add up all the imaginary funds you've arbitrarily decided they'd go for with no evidence, then uses it to justify your list of "ins" as well. Doesn't listen to any of the actual financials where the club is struggling, no attention paid to the "it will mostly be loans" news we've had coming out for weeks. Nope, let's fire up a new save and turn over half the squad then wonder why that never actually happens in real life.

Been reading this sort of thing in every transfer window on SC for 15 years. It literally never happens. This is a classic example.

And you actually ended a post with "drops mic", I mean we're entering levels of cringe here not previously thought possible.

 

[dontcallme]

Good post except he clearly said buying 4 players is not unrealistic.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

What makes you think we'll sign more than 2-3 players? There are no signs that we'll be signing anything like 4-6 players, that's crazy.

I'd say that there are plenty of signs.

Hojbjerg as good as done. We're definitely after at least one striker. We're definitely after a right back. We also seem to be after a centre back. And it's quite possible that we might be after an attacking midfielder such as David Brooks.

I'd say that it's quite clear that we're looking to bring in four at a minimum. So your condescending, dismissive response to fishhhandaricecake seems both uncalled for and just plain wrong.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Right so you're a classic Football Manager supporter who thinks we'll sell about 37 players, likes to add up all the imaginary funds you've arbitrarily decided they'd go for with no evidence, then uses it to justify your list of "ins" as well. Doesn't listen to any of the actual financials where the club is struggling, no attention paid to the "it will mostly be loans" news we've had coming out for weeks. Nope, let's fire up a new save and turn over half the squad then wonder why that never actually happens in real life.

Been reading this sort of thing in every transfer window on SC for 15 years. It literally never happens. This is a classic example.

And you actually ended a post with "drops mic", I mean we're entering levels of cringe here not previously thought possible.

I think I summed up my view quite well and none of it was particularly unrealistic. You say that 'it never happens in real life' well last summer we signed : Ndombele, Lo Celso, Clarke, Sessengon and by all accounts were trying to get one more over the line if Eriksen left so that's 4 players 2 of which had big transfer fee's, all of the players we've been linked with this summer and the one's i've mentioned are around £10-15m each and with the wages off the books of a few players and selling or moving on the others (all very realistic) I don't think anything i wrote is particularly unrealistic or football manager esque. You have your opinion and that is fine, I just said mic drop because you're being overly aggressive for no reason, keep that chin high

Also of the 'Football Manager sell 37 players lol' a lot of these have already happened, are happening or could well happen, most of them are young players or fringe players. Not sure if you actually believe what you write or got out of bed the wrong side and just want to cause an argument but either way here is the justification of the sales:

Vorm - end of contract
Aurier - very heavily linked to AC Milan, reliable journo's have said personal terms have been agreed
KWP - very likely to go to southampton
Jan - end of contract
CCV - surplus to requirements so likely to be loaned again or sold
Foyth - same as CCV and heavily linked with Leeds
Rose - Clear that Jose wants him gone
Skipp (loan) - heavily linked with loans and likely to happen
Amos - close to QBR deal
Ndombele??? - probably will stay but mabye 60/40 on staying vs going in a cash or swap deal
Lamela? - likely to stay but could be sacrificed for a younger more reliable AM
Parrott (loan) - done deal to Milwall

So of the 37 players (actually 12)... 3 have gone, 3 are very close and 6 are fairly likely.

Unlikely we will sell all of them of course but a good majority will probably go and that should clear enough space and wages and funds to bring in 3-4 players in key positions, not too hard to comprehend.

 

[Bobbins]

I'd say that there are plenty of signs.

Hojbjerg as good as done. We're definitely after at least one striker. We're definitely after a right back. We also seem to be after a centre back. And it's quite possible that we might be after an attacking midfielder such as David Brooks.

I'd say that it's quite clear that we're looking to bring in four at a minimum. So your condescending, dismissive response to fishhhandaricecake seems both uncalled for and just plain wrong.

Not been around here long have you mate, you should see this place on a matchday, with your level of sensitivity it'll give you PTSD.

Don't have a conversation with @Spurrific whatever you do.

 

[Bobbins]

*loads new FM save*

Look forward to you second game of the season:

 

[Shadydan]

I'm actually convinced that Bobbins's pic in his avatar is actually his face in real life.

 

[Trotter]

The year ends in 1 ,so **** it we'll win the lot. I'd be very disappointed if we don't ?

Different century (and different owners where that is not a priority) now. We won trophy in 51,61,71,81,91 but something changed
Winning with year with ending in a 1, got trumped by not winning if year starts in a 2.

 

[Bobbins]

I'm actually convinced that Bobbins's pic in his avatar is actually his face in real life.

If only you'd been around for SC's Sexiest Male 2008, you'd have known how close you are.

 

[wishkah]

One down already, this man breathes trophies.

 

[mark87]

Look forward to you second game of the season:

See kids, that's how difficult it was to get rid of the paperclip from MS Word 97.

 

[ItsBoris]

Imagine this 11 if Ndombele actually fulfills his potential:

Lloris
Aarons--Toby--Sanchez--Davies
Hojbjerg--Lo Celso
Bergwijn--Ndombele--Son
Kane​

Plus Moura, Lamela, Alli, Winks, Kane backup, maybe Skriniar, Dier, Sissoko, another left back (Castagne who could play on both sides?).

For me that's a really well balanced team definitely capable of finishing top 4.

 

[stov]

Tottenham Hotspur - premier league winner 2020-21.

You heard it here first. Save it, bookmark it.

I will, to ridicule you when we don't.

 

[Barmby Army]

I think our window is probably third to sixth, same as most seasons.

Difficult to narrow it down beyond that - the temptation is to think that United will be comfortably third if not challenging the top two, but for all their attacking qualities I don't think that defence is even close to being good enough. Same with Chelsea, you can sign as many incredible attacking mids as you like, but unless you're planning on winning every game 4-3 (hello Ossie) you're going to come unstuck with that rabble at the back - Rudiger's the only quality defender they have.

That said, if I had to narrow us down to a specific position I think I'd say fifth, behind City (champions), Liverpool, United and Chelsea. We're still better than Arsenal, and I suspect that Wolves and Everton will struggle to get any closer to the top six this year. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Mourinho shithousing us all the way to the dizzy heights of third, but that's about as good as it's likely to get in the league. Wouldn't rule out the possibility of him winning us a trophy though.

 

[joey55]

Obviously so much depends on who we bring in. But if you analyse our defence, after the restart, the goals against was very much inline with Mourinho's 2 full seasons at Utd and is title winning standard. I think most would agree we definitely saw a difference in how we set up after the restart, so I think it's reasonable to judge that period separately from the rest of Jose's reign. In his seasons at Utd, with very average defenders, they conceded 29 and 28 goals. Since the restart we were averaging about 30 goals per season conceded. The addition of PEH should help further with that, so I think we can feel confident with that part of our set up.

The problem we have, which that I'm worried we aren't going to resolve, is creativity. If you look at our best seasons, 15/16 and 16/17 we had 17.3 and 17.6 shots per game. But last season we were averaging just 11.7 shots per game and that was still the case after the restart. Our goals scored had us looking at around 60 per season, based on the post restart period. That is nowhere near good enough for a top 3 challenge. The way Jose has us set up, defensively we are very likely to be good enough, even if we don't bring in FB's, which we probably will. So our expectations, for next season, very much depend on who we bring in to create, as we've got good finishers. The back up striker is almost a red herring, as it's distracting from the main weakness in our best starting line up. Even though Kane and Son were fit post Covid, we didn't score enough, to realistically finish in the top 3 next season and it's because we don't create enough.

If we look at out most creative players during 2015/16 and 2016/17, they were Eriksen and Lamela. Per 90 mins that created 3.2/2.7 and 3.5/2.8 chances each. But obviously Eriksen has left and Lamela hasn't been great recently. Last season our 2 most creative players were Gio and Berg with just 1.8 and 1.7. That is a huge difference. I didn't want us to sign Gio as he creativity stats weren't good enough. I was wrong, as I now think he's a brilliant player, but I still don't think he's going to create enough alone and Berg, who again doesn't create enough compared to the elite, is unlikely to be a regular starter anyway. We desperately need a top class creative player and I'm worried we aren't looking for one. All the ITK seems to be about FB's, a CB and a striker. But a closer analysis suggests, to me anyway, that they shouldn't be the priority and a creative player should be. I think that's how Poch saw it, as he wanted Bruno/Dybala, as well as Gio.

For me Grealish is the perfect signing. If, by some miracle, we could get him, I think we'd have an outside shot at the title and be real top 3 contenders. I'd love Isco as an alternative. But if we don't sign that type of player, I just don't see how we go from scoring around 60 to 75+, which we will need to finish in the top 3. Without a creative player, I think it will be a real struggle to finish in the top 4 and think 5th is most realistic. Since Bruno has come in Utd's goals per game average suggests a 70+ season and they are looking to add Sancho. Chelsea have added Werner and Ziyech, so I think they will score over 70. We've got to find away of scoring another 15 goals and a back up striker and a FB who is better than Aurier, is unlikely to achieve that. We have to properly replace Eriksen. We've got lots a good goal scorers, but we lack sufficient supply.

PS - NDombele isn't the answer, before someone says it! Could be a great CM with his talent, but he's not going to a true, elite level, creative, attacking mid, like De Bruyne etc.