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Spurs hater David Baddeil in "not that Jewish" shocker!!!!

CosmicHotspur

Better a wag than a WAG
Aug 14, 2006
51,069
22,383
I have made a choice not to follow Judaism as a religion. However, I was born Jewish, my family is Jewish and I am Jewish and I do not dispute that fact so I have to disagree with the viewpoint that it is only a religion.
 

Acid

In Limbo
Sep 10, 2005
420
211
Sorry buddy - you're incorrect - it is absolutely not just a spiritual thing - its being part of a tribe / race / ethnicity.

You are always considered to be Jewish by the religion even if you covert to another.

I am absolutely 100% a Jew despite not believing in, practicing or having any spiritual affiliation to the religion at all.

That's nice but I disagree completely for various reasons, but you are entitled to believing what you believe is a fact.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
If white people here started telling black or mixed race people that they 'aren't dark enough to be black', then we'd have a much-justified meltdown here.

So it isn't OK for non-Jews to define what it is to be Jewish. We get to define ourselves and, for a very substantial number of us - in Israel it is a majority - the definition is entirely outside the question of 'religion' or 'faith' or 'observance'. There is a complex mix of culture, ethnicity, heredity and history and, for some people, there is also religion.

But you guys don't get to tell us whether we're Jewish or not. We get to tell you and you get to say 'OK'.

My grandparents were totally secular and they were Jewish enough for the Nazis to steal their business, imprison them and kill them.

Nowadays we get to decide whether we're Jewish. No one else.
 

Acid

In Limbo
Sep 10, 2005
420
211
I have made a choice not to follow Judaism as a religion. However, I was born Jewish, my family is Jewish and I am Jewish and I do not dispute that fact so I have to disagree with the viewpoint that it is only a religion.

Fair enough :) Everyone entitled to their own beliefs. I feel I am a human, my family being Jewish, anything to do with blood, culture etc, to me it is a made up load of nonsense/programming, human words/notions/constructs to create/push differences in us etc. etc.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
That's nice but I disagree completely for various reasons, but you are entitled to believing what you believe is a fact.

I understand why you would disagree - I understand religion is mostly made up and therefore you cant truly define single person by any said religion however its important to understand that what I am saying is fact based on the religion.

Same way that one is born into being a British, German, whatever person - in the Jewish religion it is considered the same thing so it doesnt matter if you disagree - im just telling you what the law of the land is.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Fair enough :) Everyone entitled to their own beliefs. I feel I am a human, my family being Jewish, anything to do with blood etc, to me it is a made up load of nonsense, human words/notions/constructs to create/push differences in us etc. etc.

So would you call yourself British?
 

Acid

In Limbo
Sep 10, 2005
420
211
I understand why you would disagree - I understand religion is mostly made up and therefore you cant truly define single person by any said religion however its important to understand that what I am saying is fact based on the religion.

Same way that one is born into being a British, German, whatever person - in the Jewish religion it is considered the same thing so it doesnt matter if you disagree - im just telling you what the law of the land is.

>>"fact based on the religion" - an oxymoron if ever i've heard one :p

You want me to take something that isn't real to be a fact? :p Or you want me to accept some delusional people consider it a fact?
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
>>"fact based on the religion" - an oxymoron if ever i've heard one :p

You want me to take something that isn't real to be a fact? :p Or you want me to accept some delusional people consider it a fact?

Mate - EVERYTHING is made up!

Words, countries, everything
 

ronspurs

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2014
313
827
its because he seems to think he is the king of all jews in the UK

plus because he isnt funny and only gets on telly because he is mates with that prick yentob
 

TheSpillage

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2013
892
2,543
I think you're misunderstanding the situation. Which is fair enough since most people aren't able to conjugate why there is such a visceral reaction here. (and this thread is an over-reaction)

His position may be wrong, counter-productive, self-selving etc. but he has a right to say what he feels. The problem is about who he is. Baddiel is massively wealthy and ridiculously privileged. When he wants to raise this issue he can go straight on television or put a column in a newspaper, where he can put across his view as if it is the truth with no reply. What's even worse is that we live in a climate where these kinds of stories have a primed audience. So there's an immediate call and response thing going on, where the well meaning but uninformed 'layman' can take up the cause.

Add to that professional bodies such as Kick it out and the Society of Black Lawyers who, for differing reasons, may need to investigate, and the average man, who not only thinks he is right but also that his position is more progressive and enlightened, will feel alienated and beleaguered by this scenario.

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're saying to be honest! Not sure how the problem is who he is (other than being a Chelsea fan maybe)!? I mean, he may be rich and privileged but I'm not really sure what that's got to do with it? I don't think that's the reason he is able to raise such issues in papers and on tv. He's a well-known football-loving celebrity who writes and speaks fairly articulately about issues in the game. That's why he's allowed the platform isn't it? And he doesn't seem the sort to use that platform as if the's only truth with no reply. I think he just wants to raise awareness and he seems perfectly happy to debate these issues even if he will obviously continue to think his is the right opinion. I also doubt if there is any other opinion than a layman's in this situation. Its hard to be a specialist in having an opinion on racism after all! But I take your point about the immediacy of modern debate in this age and the uninformed, ill-thought-out comment that can occur as a result.

This is a friendly reply by the way. I've just re-read it and I can't decide if it sounds like I'm taking the piss at the end there - I'm not.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Yep, stuck in a world with multiple realities overlayed within multiple realities and truths, it sucks :p

Trust me buddy - im with you and i get you :) - the laws we live by, the places we live - even the name of the football team we support - at one point or another these things were non-existent

Obviously your reality is yours and that is for you to do what you want with!
 

Acid

In Limbo
Sep 10, 2005
420
211
Trust me buddy - im with you and i get you :) - the laws we live by, the places we live - even the name of the football team we support - at one point or another these things were non-existent

Obviously your reality is yours and that is for you to do what you want with!

Urgh it's a shared reality though; a lot of issues could be solved if education taught a basic respect principle of each others thoughts, beliefs, spirituality and cultures. Felt like the world was aiming for that in the 90's but perhaps that was because I was a kid focusing on the positives of the world I could see then. But digressing from the subject apologies.

p.s. typing on phones = horrible so sorry for the rushed style of typing.
 

Mustard

Well-Known Member
Nov 14, 2012
10,781
20,141
If white people here started telling black or mixed race people that they 'aren't dark enough to be black', then we'd have a much-justified meltdown here.

So it isn't OK for non-Jews to define what it is to be Jewish. We get to define ourselves and, for a very substantial number of us - in Israel it is a majority - the definition is entirely outside the question of 'religion' or 'faith' or 'observance'. There is a complex mix of culture, ethnicity, heredity and history and, for some people, there is also religion.

But you guys don't get to tell us whether we're Jewish or not. We get to tell you and you get to say 'OK'.

My grandparents were totally secular and they were Jewish enough for the Nazis to steal their business, imprison them and kill them.

Nowadays we get to decide whether we're Jewish. No one else.


But being a Jew is not a race though is it.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
I work on a client information system at my place of work and Jewish comes under religion when added, not ethnicity.

Just thought I'd throw that in - these are all central government agreed things so if ya got any probs with that blame the government lol. :p
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
I work on a client information system at my place of work and Jewish comes under religion when added, not ethnicity.

Just thought I'd throw that in - these are all central government agreed things so if ya got any probs with that blame the government lol. :p

Racist
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
If white people here started telling black or mixed race people that they 'aren't dark enough to be black', then we'd have a much-justified meltdown here.

So it isn't OK for non-Jews to define what it is to be Jewish. We get to define ourselves and, for a very substantial number of us - in Israel it is a majority - the definition is entirely outside the question of 'religion' or 'faith' or 'observance'. There is a complex mix of culture, ethnicity, heredity and history and, for some people, there is also religion.

But you guys don't get to tell us whether we're Jewish or not. We get to tell you and you get to say 'OK'.

My grandparents were totally secular and they were Jewish enough for the Nazis to steal their business, imprison them and kill them.

Nowadays we get to decide whether we're Jewish. No one else.

I accept this argument as long as you also accept that I am a marmoset whether you like it or not.
 

Mustard

Well-Known Member
Nov 14, 2012
10,781
20,141
In terms of Jewish law it is exactly that -


But that means nothing. I could say I'm a Jedi and wear the robes and wave a broom stick around making really good swooshing sounds and everything. Get everyone I know to agree I'm a Jedi. But it's still not true.

Jews arnt a race.
 
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