Spurs Youth - 2019/20

[coys200]

Said it before our youngsters coming through should be judged by could you see them getting in the England senior squad in the near future. Because every player in our 1st Xi should at least be international quality at the bare minimum. Could anyone realistically see KWP getting anywhere near a place at Euro2020 even if Walker and Trippier got injured he wouldn’t even be mentioned. Just nowhere near good enough for a team chasing titles as we should be.

 

[therhinospeaks]

Don't get this negativity around KWP. He started the season very strongly and was one of our better players both physically and technically before his injury.

Physically ?

 

[therhinospeaks]

Said it before our youngsters coming through should be judged by could you see them getting in the England senior squad in the near future. Because every player in our 1st Xi should at least be international quality at the bare minimum. Could anyone realistically see KWP getting anywhere near a place at Euro2020 even if Walker and Trippier got injured he wouldn’t even be mentioned. Just nowhere near good enough for a team chasing titles as we should be.

There's not one club in the league buying him so why an earth would we start him?

 

[Blake Griffin]

I suspect that Vorm was brought back as much for his positive effect on the squad as his footballing ability.

But my question is "Did Whiteman or Austin get any loan offers for us to consider?"

don't have an answer for that but windy has said on quite a few occasions now that we get a lot of loan offers for various youth players but poch has vetoed pretty much all of them, we also heard from one of the more mainstream papers that tob had half a dozen championship clubs wanting to take him on loan and yet he's still here so i don't think it's too much of a jump to suggest we might have had offers at some point or another. even if we didn't have clubs coming to us there's no reason we can't go to them, it would certainly help if we built up a few relationships with lower league sides but it doesn't seem like we have much interest in doing so.

 

[DJS]

Its funny there have been problems with the academy for a long time but people have been saying the youth watchers are just negative

Now the first team, isn't playing well and all of sudden questions are being asked of the academy but the academy literally went down the shitter years ago, despite the new facilities

We are a mediocre academy imo, people saying lets get some players out of the academy for the first team, my question is who?

The main reason Parrett has been fast tracked is due to us not having another striker

If Poch's leaves, his effect on our academy would have been piss poor. He hasn't changed the philosophy to match his or vice versa and instead building a wall for graduates of the academy, in both furthering themselves or us

One word to describe poch's term in charge of the academy is stalemate.

People have been saying the youth watchers are negative?

Personally I’ve been reading this thread on and off so may have missed this but I’ve seen quite a few people disappointed in Poch’s readiness to use the youth since his earlier days in the job.

It does seemingly turn out now that perhaps our youth isn’t as good as we all hoped disappointingly, but I’ve not tended to see a theme of people not wanting youth players to be promoted to first team, quite the opposite where people were saying Poch was poor using youth players even whilst we were going through a much better spell.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Nor should he

the way you're framing this reads as though poch has had no control over the player that kwp is today. he hasn't just been given him, he's had him training with the first team for over three years and now three games later we're supposed to believe that he's come to the conclusion that kwp isn't good enough. either poch has handled him terribly or he's a useless judge of a player if three games is enough to effectively cancel out three years of training him up.

Don't get this negativity around KWP. He started the season very strongly and was one of our better players both physically and technically before his injury.

not sure about the 2nd part but i don't get the ott negativity either. he had three starts; home to villa where he was good, away to city where he did about as well as you could realistically expect and then not so great against newcastle - though he was hardly alone in this and it's not like any of the others poch has tried there have done any better on the whole either.

 

[therhinospeaks]

the way you're framing this reads as though poch has had no control over the player that kwp is today. he hasn't just been given him, he's had him training with the first team for over three years and now three games later we're supposed to believe that he's come to the conclusion that kwp isn't good enough. either poch has handled him terribly or he's a useless judge of a player if three games is enough to effectively cancel out three years of training him up.



not sure about the 2nd part but i don't get the ott negativity either. he had three starts; home to villa where he was good, away to city where he did about as well as you could realistically expect and then not so great against newcastle - though he was hardly alone in this and it's not like any of the others poch has tried there have done any better on the whole either.

I absolutely agree he's handled his development appalling. And as a result the player that stands before him is not good enough for THFC. Kyle needs a move for Kyle's sake.

 

[Danny1]

Yeah I think KWP needs a move. At this current stage I wouldn't put him any better than the likes of Fredericks over at West Ham. Technically ok but a bit naive defensively. I think he is a Premier League defender, just probably not one at the very top of the league. Now quite why he is only this good and not miles better we will never know however there are a number of young defenders at all clubs that fail to make the grade when it comes to top level football.

- Mason Holgate, Jonjoe Kenny, Martin Kelly, Jon Flanagan, Steven Caulker, Michael Mancienne, Jay Dasilva, Ben Gibson, Calum Chambers, Matt Targett, Liam Moore, Dominic Iorfa etc etc.

A lot, if not all, the players above were very highly rated & none of them have really pushed on & become the players their potential showed to begin with.

 

[Danny1]

Also thought this piece from the BBC is interesting:

"Game time for English players aged 21 and under at Premier League clubs is at its highest level in 12 seasons.
English under-21s have made up 5.01% of minutes played this season, eclipsing Germany (2.28%) and Spain (2.61%) for the first time since 2007-08.
Club-trained players account for 12.23% of playing time this season, its highest level since 2011-12.
Manchester United lead the Premier League for club-trained players this term, making up 37.4% of playing time.
They are followed by Tottenham (29.5%) and Chelsea (28.9%), while Manchester City's club-trained players have contributed 0.8% of minutes to their league campaign so far."

I do notice a lot of stick aimed at Spurs, and a whole load of praise thrown towards Chelsea regarding playing time for club trained players and yet we are better than them this season.........! Speaks volumes.

 

[Sophos151]

I do notice a lot of stick aimed at Spurs, and a whole load of praise thrown towards Chelsea regarding playing time for club trained players and yet we are better than them this season.........! Speaks volumes.

Most of ours are from Kane and Winks, who've been established in the team for years now. Chelsea's come from players who are only breaking into the team this season.

 

[Danny1]

Most of ours are from Kane and Winks, who've been established in the team for years now. Chelsea's come from players who are only breaking into the team this season.

So basically it goes on cycles, just because Chelsea players are younger it means that they are now massively better than us. Up till these players Chelsea were terrible at bringing through youth but because he has incorporated 2 / 3 players they are now the pinnacle?

A lot gets spoken about Chelsea but nothing about Utd who have far more club trained talent plying their trade in the premier league. I just think something is a bit off.

Also, to respond to your post exactly, ours has come from Kane and Winks mostly, then KWP and Skipp in small patterns.

Chelsea’s has come from Abraham and Mount mostly, with Tomori some and James a few mins. So actually not that different to us, but they are better than us because those players are a couple of years younger? Unfair criticism I think.

 

[Blake Griffin]

u23s 0-0 at ht.

pretty drab performance as usual. tracey having a mare.

edit: lost 2-0.

 

[therhinospeaks]

u23s 0-0 at ht.

pretty drab performance as usual. tracey having a mare.

Don't know how you do it.

 

[therhinospeaks]

Don't fancy us at Arsenal this morning. With no Binks it could be ugly.

 

[Trotter]

So basically it goes on cycles, just because Chelsea players are younger it means that they are now massively better than us. Up till these players Chelsea were terrible at bringing through youth but because he has incorporated 2 / 3 players they are now the pinnacle?

A lot gets spoken about Chelsea but nothing about Utd who have far more club trained talent plying their trade in the premier league. I just think something is a bit off.

Also, to respond to your post exactly, ours has come from Kane and Winks mostly, then KWP and Skipp in small patterns.

Chelsea’s has come from Abraham and Mount mostly, with Tomori some and James a few mins. So actually not that different to us, but they are better than us because those players are a couple of years younger? Unfair criticism I think.

Actually 9% of our 29.5% comes from Danny Rose

 

[coys200]

No idea how we are lining up x3 FB and no obvious DM looks very attacking.

 

[coys200]

I guess Yago must be playing single pivot. I thought he was AM ?

 

[Blake Griffin]

u18s came from 2-0 down to draw 2-2. bennett with the first and etete with an injury time equaliser.

 

[guru]

Another good goal from Roles for Cambridge yesterday I see .This is exactly why we should be letting our players go on loan instead of sitting in u23s or just sitting in poch zone . The big question is who is good enough to go out on Loan and start producing and making a difference to a loan team , after watching u23s game on Friday I’m not so sure the likes of TOB , maghoma can have a great effect as Roles is having , but seem to be rated above him previously . But we need to give them a chance to go prove their worth , just need loan teams coming in for them , but they seriously need to up their game to attract any interest from other clubs

 

[Blake Griffin]

Another good goal from Roles for Cambridge yesterday I see .This is exactly why we should be letting our players go on loan instead of sitting in u23s or just sitting in poch zone . The big question is who is good enough to go out on Loan and start producing and making a difference to a loan team , after watching u23s game on Friday I’m not so sure the likes of TOB , maghoma can have a great effect as Roles is having , but seem to be rated above him previously . But we need to give them a chance to go prove their worth , just need loan teams coming in for them , but they seriously need to up their game to attract any interest from other clubs

as i said before, it's not easy to tell who will do well and who won't, when a previously rated player gets stuck in the u23 rut you naturally start to move away from them and look towards the next batch but it doesn't mean they're now bad players. before we let jaden brown go did you think that he'd soon be starting in the championship? I watched some of the huddersfield game yesterday and he was looking strong and composed, yet if you'd have looked at him towards the end of his time in the u23s you'd probably have said he might do alright in league 2 if he's lucky. similar story for tanganga, he was stagnating badly and no one here hardly mentioned him anymore and just thought well he'll be gone soon to a lower league side but then he gets a few games with the first team(thanks to eyoma being injured) and he reminds people that there's still a player in there, just a shame he's now going to spend all year doing nothing.

there are a few simple changes i would make to the academy(as far as the u23s go anyway) -

1) promising talents allowed to go on loan much earlier. the previous generation of players produced were going out on loan at 17-18, now we hardly let anyone under the age of 20 go even when it's clear that the u23 is doing little for their development

2) those who clearly aren't good enough are let go earlier, i don't mind the odd one here and there for numbers sake but when they're blocking better/younger players from playing then it becomes a problem

3) fringe first teamers should be allowed to drop down to the u23s. first of all it gets those players some much needed match sharpness. secondly those players will bring the quality of the team up, therefore making those i've referred to in point 1 a more attractive loan proposition to other clubs. lastly it's good experience for the younger players to play alongside better and experienced players.

4) get rid of burnett

unfortunately though none of those are going to happen, not under pochettino anyway.