Style of play

[Shadydan]

But not city.or liverpool

Yeah we obviously need to improve but I don't agree that they're the easiest teams to beat.

 

[wrd]

But not city.or liverpool

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46955254

 

[hellava_tough]

Bus parkers are notoriously difficult to beat, breaking down an organised, well drilled side has been the scourge of many including Barcelona, Real etc...

Sorry SD, but I totally disagree with that.

Difficult to play against; certainly.

Difficult to beat; not at all.

Perhaps now and again you'll drop points against a particularly stubborn 'bus-parker', or perhaps an opposition goalie will play their best game that season, but for a top team over the course of a season they'll beat these one-dimension teams most of the time.

It's for the reasons I stated in my post earlier on in this thread.

 

[Shadydan]

Sorry SD, but I totally disagree with that.

Difficult to play against; certainly.

Difficult to beat; not at all.

Perhaps now and again you'll drop points against a particularly stubborn 'bus-parker', or perhaps an opposition goalie will play their best game that season, but for a top team over the course of a season they'll beat these one-dimension teams most of the time.

It's for the reasons I stated in my post earlier on in this thread.

Bus parkers are normally organised and sit deep, history tells us they're difficult to beat hence why the majority of lower team adopt their style in order to compete with bigger teams.

Who do you think we'd struggle to play against more Bournemouth or Burnley?

 

[beats1]

Yeah we obviously need to improve but I don't agree that they're the easiest teams to beat.

I agree with your general point but considering the turmoil at newcastle for the past 3 weeks and how players have apparently been saying they dont know what they are supposed to be doing under Bruce, its shocking we lost to them

I think Newcastle last weekend would probably be the weakest team we will face this season

 

[Shadydan]

I agree with your general point but considering the turmoil at newcastle for the past 3 weeks and how players have apparently been saying they dont know what they are supposed to be doing under Bruce, its shocking we lost to them

I think Newcastle last weekend would probably be the weakest team we will face this season

Not debating against that.

 

[Trotter]

The main issue for me is the speed of transition from when we regain position.
We are allowing the bus-parking teams to reset in solid banks after we gain possession.
The worst thing for a defender is to have players running at you when you are not set, we are giving them the time to allow them to set themselves

 

[hellava_tough]

Bus parkers are normally organised and sit deep, history tells us they're difficult to beat hence why the majority of lower team adopt their style in order to compete with bigger teams.

Who do you think we'd struggle to play against more Bournemouth or Burnley?

History tells us that they're easy to beat; that's why they consistently finish behind 'bigger teams' in the league.

They're difficult to play against, but not to beat if you consider results over the course of a season.

There's a reason that 'bus-parkers' don't win league titles; it's the best strategy to steal a point against good sides, but it rarely works.

 

[Shadydan]

History tells us that they're easy to beat; that's why they consistently finish behind 'bigger teams' in the league.

They're difficult to play against, but not to beat if you consider results over the course of a season.

There's a reason that 'bus-parkers' don't win league titles; it's the best strategy to steal a point against good sides, but it rarely works.

lol That's my entire point!

Why do you think smaller teams deploy bus parking tactics as opposed to being open? So yet again we're likely to struggle against a team like Burnely as opposed to Bournemouth or Aston Villa as opposed to Norwich, its not science.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because it's not relevant to the argument and digressing from the point.

 

[gavspur]

Against teams that sit deep, I’ve always wondered why we don’t shoot from distance? A few shots on target from distance will have them scampering out to close down the shooter.. This then means we’ve drawn them out, and can now chop and change what we do when they break ranks ie shoot, or dummy for the pass.. I guess only Eriksen can shoot from distance, although maybe Ndombele can do this, as shown v Villa.

 

[dtxspurs]

Against teams that sit deep, I’ve always wondered why we don’t shoot from distance? A few shots on target from distance will have them scampering out to close down the shooter.. This then means we’ve drawn them out, and can now chop and change what we do when they break ranks ie shoot, or dummy for the pass.. I guess only Eriksen can shoot from distance, although maybe Ndombele can do this, as shown v Villa.

Kane and Son can most definitely do that, no idea why they didn’t though. I think Son attempted 2 that I can remember. Certainly not enough.

 

[Wadec]

So when Juande Ramos was managing a Russian side (forget which one) we ended up playing them in a European competition, and he gave an interview before the game.

He said that a coach can get their formation, style, tactics, etc spot on for a game, and perhaps even out-fox the opponent, but if they don't have the raw talent on the pitch, then a lot of the time they end up losing the game.

That really stuck with me, because it highlights the need to create a slick, efficient footballing system with the correct formation and tactics, etc, which you can then go about upgrading the constituent parts to i.e. signing good players.

So with Pep and Klopp, you could see what they were trying to do with their systems and finally they got the pieces to do it.

The problem with us, is that you can't even see what we're trying to do.

It would be one thing if we were, generally speaking, battering 'lesser' teams in the league, but falling short against Liverpool and Man City, due to a lack of that little bit of extra quality. That's where transfers come in.

But the truth is, we're struggling against teams that we're actually a lot better than.

Great post, you only have to look at the game on the weekend. When we used to struggle in these games over the years the opposition GK would normally have the game of his life. We aren't creating good chances. Possession and shots tell you nothing about the quality of chances created.

 

[Jemster]

With regards to style of play, it's really frustrating watching our approach to games where the opposition has decided to 'park the bus'.

These teams should actually be pretty easy to play against, because of their (i) 1 dimensional tactics (ii) usually inferior players and (iii) lack of attacking intent.

What we need to do is be more aggressive, up the tempo and don't worry if our final balls don't work, or get intercepted; we'll be creating plenty of attacking play so eventually that key pass will get through.

We need to be taking on the opposition full backs, whipping crosses into the box, trying through balls, punting long balls, taking shots from outside of the box, moving off the ball and running directly at packed defences. Pressure! Pressure! Pressure!

Individually, these things may not work, but it puts the opposition under so much stress that eventually they'll crack.

The problem that we have currently, is that our patient build up play allows our opponents to 'grow into the game'. To dig in and mentally become settled and organised. With this, comes motivation and a willingness to see the whole thing out for 90 minutes.

We need to be forcing mistakes that will ultimately break their spirit.

It baffles me that Poch and his team don't see this...

Good post. Yes, theoretically width is what is needed to break teams parking the bus. Their two banks of four, 5-4, or 4-5 defence and midfield line ups are intended to clog central areas and close off the channels. Spreading the play wide should help open some of these congested areas and provide forwards with space to attack in anticipation of the wide player's cross. Trouble is, we don't cross the ball because seemingly our attackers do not make, or even attempt those runs. We have become a ball to feet team which plays into the hands of such opponents.

 

[hellava_tough]

lol That's my entire point!

Why do you think smaller teams deploy bus parking tactics as opposed to being open? So yet again we're likely to struggle against a team like Burnely as opposed to Bournemouth or Aston Villa as opposed to Norwich, its not science.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because it's not relevant to the argument and digressing from the point.

I believe it is relevant.

(i) A lesser team has to play the bigger teams.

(ii) They have to choose a strategy when playing the bigger teams.

(iii) If they play in an open fashion they will almost certainly lose.

(iv) If they play in a 'bus-parking' fashion they will more than likely lose...however, there is a small chance they will steal a point.

(v) Lesser teams should use the 'bus-parking' tactic, because it gives them a small chance of success against bigger teams.

(vi) This small chance of success, by definition, still means that the bigger teams should beat the lesser teams, even when the lesser teams use their 'bus-parking tactic'


Now, a quick Google search of relevant statistics gives some credence to this theory:



The Premier League's bottom three have played 31 league games against the top six sides this season... They have lost all 31.

I know that the data-set is limited and I'd be more than happy to be shown a full data-set, including tactics deployed for individual matches, etc.

But I'd guess that those 3 bottom sides deployed 'bus-parking' tactics more often than not.

To conclude, all I'm saying is that it's awkward to play against 'bus-parking' lesser teams, but we should still be winning those games for the following reasons: (i) 'bus-parking' is a one-dimensional strategy, easy to plan for (ii) the 'bus-parking' strategy seriously diminishes a lesser team's attacking threat (iii) lesser teams have inferior players.

 

[Coyboy]

Fucking Maureen and his autobuses. Has there ever been more of an influential saying been brought into football by a foreigner?

 

[hellava_tough]

Fucking Maureen and his autobuses. Has there ever been more of an influential saying been brought into football by a foreigner?

He should have trademarked it

 

[Shadydan]

I believe it is relevant.

(i) A lesser team has to play the bigger teams.

(ii) They have to choose a strategy when playing the bigger teams.

(iii) If they play in an open fashion they will almost certainly lose.

(iv) If they play in a 'bus-parking' fashion they will more than likely lose...however, there is a small chance they will steal a point.

(v) Lesser teams should use the 'bus-parking' tactic, because it gives them a small chance of success against bigger teams.

(vi) This small chance of success, by definition, still means that the bigger teams should beat the lesser teams, even when the lesser teams use their 'bus-parking tactic'


Now, a quick Google search of relevant statistics gives some credence to this theory:



The Premier League's bottom three have played 31 league games against the top six sides this season... They have lost all 31.

I know that the data-set is limited and I'd be more than happy to be shown a full data-set, including tactics deployed for individual matches, etc.

But I'd guess that those 3 bottom sides deployed 'bus-parking' tactics more often than not.

To conclude, all I'm saying is that it's awkward to play against 'bus-parking' lesser teams, but we should still be winning those games for the following reasons: (i) 'bus-parking' is a one-dimensional strategy, easy to plan for (ii) the 'bus-parking' strategy seriously diminishes a lesser team's attacking threat (iii) lesser teams have inferior players.

Dude, you are missing my point spectacularly, nvm

 

[double0]

Playing against teams that Park the bus we need to vary our game much better be more direct use the width more and shoot imo ... Of course defend well and get an early goal.


Easier said than done. I have complete trust in Pochettinho to get things in order

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

We have lost our initial style of play to numerous factors, however I don’t think it’s impossible for us to regain that momentum and intensity.

I genuinely think the players are mentally and emotionally beaten down at the moment. Due to what? The lose in the final, the drop of form in the league, the countless “nearly” moments, constant scrutiny from the media and press because we haven’t won a trophy yet, we are forgetting that these guys are human beings too including Poch.

I don’t know what needs to be done or needs to happen for us to get back to the vibrant happy team we used to be where we can totally enjoy our football, but it needs to happen as soon as possible.

The aura around the team and especially Poch has been dreadful for a while now.

 

[double0]

We have lost our initial style of play to numerous factors, however I don’t think it’s impossible for us to regain that momentum and intensity.

I genuinely think the players are mentally and emotionally beaten down at the moment. Due to what? The lose in the final, the drop of form in the league, the countless “nearly” moments, constant scrutiny from the media and press because we haven’t won a trophy yet, we are forgetting that these guys are human beings too including Poch.

I don’t know what needs to be done or needs to happen for us to get back to the vibrant happy team we used to be where we can totally enjoy our football, but it needs to happen as soon as possible.

The aura around the team and especially Poch has been dreadful for a while now.

We have been the nearly team for a while but I believe that should inspire the group to push harder.

What I thinks happen 1. theirs a number of players on varying contracts from 60-200 thousand a week 2. certain players the clubs actively trying to release 3. certain players actively trying to leave. 4 the European window being open has left a shadow on a few players. Squad harmony might be on a down and if I were Poch would remove the doubt from the squad ie certain players

I can't see many other teams dealing with this issue. United maybe with Sanchez who wasn't near the squad and looks now to have gone on loan.