Style of play

shelfmonkey

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I think it will take a while to fully integrate our new players and meanwhile Poch has been working without Dele, Son and Foyth and has three players who could still leave the club and possibly are playing at 95% not 100% because of that uncertainty. (Plus no Jan still for some reason. I can't believe he's not fit enough, there must be more to it). He obviously can't put out his favoured team yet, so it's a difficult situation, though one we should be able to cope with, with the quality of the squad now.
I agree with the OP though. We used to press fast and hard and our passing was one touch football that was hard to stop. I'd love to see that again.
I'd also love to see another goal like this one:
Was that put up for MOTD's goal of the month/season?
 

fishhhandaricecake

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If you want to use selective data be my guest but I'm gonna highlight something you choose to ignore. In those previous season before last we finished above them 4 out of 5 seasons (3 out of 4 under Klopp) you can use all the cup finals all you want but the mark of progress has always been the league not cup runs. Last season they obviously were much better than us because they bought well and improved the holes in their team - no one is disputing that. We have done just that fixed the gaping holes (mostly) and hope to push on so and now we have a squad to match Liverpool's so when you're comparing both teams you compare our squad as of now now to theirs which is what you're doing hence why the two matches isn't the best way to judge.

I'm not sure what you've heard about Eriksen either but we don't know whether he's going to stay or leave, no one does so there's no point self loathing about something which hasn't happened yet. Yes it was a shit performance and we were pinned back but I'm not gonna sit here and panic because I know we can be infinitely better and we have key players coming back, again you can call them excuses as much as you want but they are key factors as to why we aren't up to speed which you're happy to choose to ignore, it's up to you.
In those previous seasons Klopp was very new and was slowly building and improving them, they've got better season after season and while they may have finished below us they still reached major cup finals so progress was clearly still be made but even taking away the cup finals last season they finished 26 points ahead of us that is 9 wins and most worryingly in the last 6-7 times we've played lpool i think i'm right that we;ve won 1, drawn 2 and lost 4, Poch cannot work out how to play against Liverpool and City consistently.

I do agree 2 matches isn't easy or right to fully judge us so as I said I agree we do need to still wait until the other signings have bedded in and once the European window has closed hopefully poch will know his best team and will get us playing a consistent formation but i'm not basing this on just 2 games, our 2nd half of season form last year as also very poor and this really is just a continuation of this.

It may upset some people but i'm concerned that poch has run his course with this squad and has to an extent run out of ideas and is starting to give up a bit.

Re.Eriksen he's played with a chip on his shoulder last year and even more so this season, you can see in his body language he badly wants out and ITK's have pretty much confirmed the same with his strops so yes we do need to sort his situation out.

I trust Poch but a little worried by our performances recently to be quite honest that performance vs Man City was an embarrassment, he got that completely wrong.
 

fishhhandaricecake

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last season (league fixtures in brackets)

Allison (38) played in the WC went home a week early

Robertson (36) never had a WC

TAA (29) was with the WC squad, might of played 1 max 2 games

VvD (38) never had a WC

they used Lovern, Matip, and Gomez as a pairing for CH with VvD

there midfield they rotated 5 players with them using them between 25-32 starts but wasn't due to any long term injuries

Salah (38) started every league game, had the majority of the summer off, didn't join up with Eygpt due to his shoulder until they played a total of 3 WC matches, and never played in any of their friendlies during the season or if he did he never before the CL final

Firmino (34) started all but 4 games didn't have much of a break, but didn't start all of Brazils WC matches and came home early enough to get a 3 week break

Mane (37) started all but 1, and like Salah only played 3 WC matches so had 4 weeks off

so a pretty settled squad where their best XI started a match over 30 times during the season


please tell me which 1 of our front 3 played that many, Eriksen started the most out games with 35

Kane (28) played to the final weekend of the WC, also played 4 top level English matches during the season plus other friendlies

Son (31) played the 1st KO of the world cup plus 2 Asian tournaments

Dele (25) picked up an injury in the WC but was still involved to the last weekend, missed 13 games because of injury and was still involved with England.

we reached the semi's of the CoC, Liverpool went out in the 3rd round, we went out in the 4th round of the FA Cup Liverpool the 3rd.

Oh and just to let you know last season after Liverpool spending over 200m (I'm including VvD) to strengthen it was the 1st time Klopp had finished above Poch
Nice stats mate this is interesting to know and i do agree that this and not being at home last season will have had a big effect for sure.
I'm just concerned that Poch actually knows who his best XI are and how he wants us to play, and the way we got completely utterly dominated by City was a bit embarressing really. We have the 3rd best squad in the league and were only missing Son and Dele from our strongest team, he got the tactics completely wrong.
 

fishhhandaricecake

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it was a record points total for 2nd, Man C got 100pts the previous season.

since Poch has been with us we have made 2 finals and 3 semi finals, and Klopp has lost in 4 of them

he has also spent near on ½ billion more before this summer to do it
Yep I know it was a record points total for 2nd lol.

Poch has failed in 3 semi finals, so we are not even really reaching finals and in my opinion we got very very lucky to make the CL final last year, we scraped past man city over 2 legs and needed VAR, Ajax outplayed us and we needed lucas magic, Liverpool destroyed PSG and Barcelona. I'm yet to see us perform and dominate consistently well in big big games and that is the next step. We aren't going to win things by scaping through games and getting lucky.
 

fishhhandaricecake

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last week v Villa we was only poor the 1st 70 mins with our finishing. yes we wasn't as dominant as City were yesterday but we missed a lot of chances.

yesterday was a nightmare and we really should of looked at cancelling the high press from them by going longer and much earlier, because all we done was create pressure. when we have a free kick just inside our half especially when behind go long, but no we take it short and back on the back foot. when Moura was brought on occasionally we went long, but forgot to have players up there to win the 2nd ball.

with our high press last season I still put it down to conservation due to injuries, lack of preseason and the amount of fixtures played without enough depth. I also think the change in tactic of the high press is down to playing CL which doesn't allow for rotation like it did with the EL. with a little stronger in depth perhaps we will see it more once we are up to speed, but at the moment we are 2 games in and due to injuries, suspension, and bedding in we don't know what our strongest XI is until Alli is back, Son is back and Lo Celso is ready to go.

at the moment I think we need to be patient. we lost 13 games and only drew 2 last season and we won't lose that many in the league this season I just hope the majority of those turn arounds are not draws
*We were only poor*

Agree on less press due to CL and I fully expect us to not lose 13 games this season but so far we don't look anywhere close to the team Poch had a few seasons ago when we ran leicester and chelsea close we were blowing teams away with energy and quality, now we quite frankly look a bit of a mess. Only time will tell... #inpochwetrusthopefully
 

Lighty64

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Nice stats mate this is interesting to know and i do agree that this and not being at home last season will have had a big effect for sure.
I'm just concerned that Poch actually knows who his best XI are and how he wants us to play, and the way we got completely utterly dominated by City was a bit embarressing really. We have the 3rd best squad in the league and were only missing Son and Dele from our strongest team, he got the tactics completely wrong.
City had 2 new players this summer, Rodri played pre season. how is Poch meant to know his best XI yet when Lo Celso & Sess joined 2 days before the season started, with Son suspended for the 1st 2, and Alli injured. until we have a fit and available 18-20 no 1 knows what it will be
 
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Lighty64

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Yep I know it was a record points total for 2nd lol.

Poch has failed in 3 semi finals, so we are not even really reaching finals and in my opinion we got very very lucky to make the CL final last year, we scraped past man city over 2 legs and needed VAR, Ajax outplayed us and we needed lucas magic, Liverpool destroyed PSG and Barcelona. I'm yet to see us perform and dominate consistently well in big big games and that is the next step. We aren't going to win things by scaping through games and getting lucky.
they destroyed PSG? in the groups they scrapped a 3-2 home win, and lost 2-1 away. if it had been the KO's PSG win on away goals. they got battered 1st leg v Barca, and Barca never respected them in the return.

the season before had VAR been in place they wouldn't of reached the final, 2 controversial moments got them past City, just as VAR got us through last season

we have played 2 game, 1st we should of been 2-0 up before Villa got out of their half, and just faced the best team in the PL for the last 2 seasons with an average 99pts
 

MK Yid

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they destroyed PSG? in the groups they scrapped a 3-2 home win, and lost 2-1 away. if it had been the KO's PSG win on away goals. they got battered 1st leg v Barca, and Barca never respected them in the return.

the season before had VAR been in place they wouldn't of reached the final, 2 controversial moments got them past City, just as VAR got us through last season

we have played 2 game, 1st we should of been 2-0 up before Villa got out of their half, and just faced the best team in the PL for the last 2 seasons with an average 99pts
Assume you mean to say we should have been 2-0 down to Villa before we had our first shot on target.
How can we be 2-0 up when we only had 1 shot on target in the first half, compared to their 4, and less overall shots in total.
It was only last week, that is not a long time ago to be revisionary
 
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Shadydan

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In those previous seasons Klopp was very new and was slowly building and improving them, they've got better season after season and while they may have finished below us they still reached major cup finals so progress was clearly still be made but even taking away the cup finals last season they finished 26 points ahead of us that is 9 wins and most worryingly in the last 6-7 times we've played lpool i think i'm right that we;ve won 1, drawn 2 and lost 4, Poch cannot work out how to play against Liverpool and City consistently.

I do agree 2 matches isn't easy or right to fully judge us so as I said I agree we do need to still wait until the other signings have bedded in and once the European window has closed hopefully poch will know his best team and will get us playing a consistent formation but i'm not basing this on just 2 games, our 2nd half of season form last year as also very poor and this really is just a continuation of this.

It may upset some people but i'm concerned that poch has run his course with this squad and has to an extent run out of ideas and is starting to give up a bit.

Re.Eriksen he's played with a chip on his shoulder last year and even more so this season, you can see in his body language he badly wants out and ITK's have pretty much confirmed the same with his strops so yes we do need to sort his situation out.

I trust Poch but a little worried by our performances recently to be quite honest that performance vs Man City was an embarrassment, he got that completely wrong.
Won't disagree much with that and fine to think that but it comes down whether you're glass half empty or half full.

I just think that patience is needed, let's get Son and Alli back on the pitch before we start the meltdown, let's see if Eriksen stays and contributes this season (it's in his best interests to get his head right as opposed at sulking and play at half intensity) Let's see if the stadium will allow us to build a platform at home and go onto dominate teams, let's see how quick Ndombele, Sessegnon and Lo Celso settle into this team.

Because when you think about it there's much more to come, despite us looking weak towards the end of last season and our performances a lot to be desired we can only go one way and that's up, as I said if we're still playing like this at Xmas we have grounds to be concerned but worrying after playing a full strength/full of confidence City team who will dominate the league isn't the time to do it.
 

DiamondLites

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I won’t judge the style of play until we have Son and Dele back, and our new signings are up to speed. I also think a lot hinges on Eriksen - we’ve heard we were looking to play a more dynamic, up tempo attacking style ala Liverpool and I don’t see how Eriksen fits into this way of playing. If he stays you assume he plays and we’d keep a more deliberate, measured style
 

Lighty64

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Assume you mean to say we should have been 2-0 down to Villa before we had our first shot on target.
How can we be 2-0 up when we only had 1 shot on target in the first half, compared to their 4, and less overall shots in total.
It was only last week, that is not a long time ago to be revisionary
so Moura missing a sitter in the 1st minute doesn't count?

proves we all get things wrong, and your not Mr Perfect
 

Shadydan

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I’m baffled how people can be so negative about the team they support. Incredible
Some people are only happy when they're moaning and whinging, that's just how it is. In truth they probably use social media and forums to vent.
 

Lighty64

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*We were only poor*

Agree on less press due to CL and I fully expect us to not lose 13 games this season but so far we don't look anywhere close to the team Poch had a few seasons ago when we ran leicester and chelsea close we were blowing teams away with energy and quality, now we quite frankly look a bit of a mess. Only time will tell... #inpochwetrusthopefully
I suggest you go look at all our matches in the Leicester and Chelsea seasons and just watch how all teams defended against us. you might notice a big difference compared to the last 2 seasons. The high press is a lot easier to force mistakes when a team only has a handful of players back defending. the high press is hard to adapt the last 2 seasons with the majority of teams sticking 10 men behind the ball and hitting us on the counter

when we lost out to Leicester we was in the EL and rotating heavy, we went out in the 3rd rd of the CoC, and 5th Rd FA Cup, sufferd very little injuries. very similar followed the season with Chelsea, but we improved in the cup comps, but went out early in in EL after failing to get out of the CL group
 

Lighty64

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It's you're not your, Mr Imperfect
but I don't pretend to be perfect. yesterday after viewing the goal I accepted I got it wrong. your comment about me always being wrong (which has disappeared) is mainly due to a disagreement in the transfer window. yet you wanted me to do all the work to prove I was wrong, and you wasn't willing to do any work for a trade you specialise in, on top of your football association duties.
 

MK Yid

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but I don't pretend to be perfect. yesterday after viewing the goal I accepted I got it wrong. your comment about me always being wrong (which has disappeared) is mainly due to a disagreement in the transfer window. yet you wanted me to do all the work to prove I was wrong, and you wasn't willing to do any work for a trade you specialise in, on top of your football association duties.
Don't have any football duties, retired from refereeing in the League about 15 years ago, now just follow Spurs home and away to every match, as well as my day job, but due to my refereeing background can do it with a much more neutral and objective viewpoint than most, that see incidents only one way (every slight touch being a foul for Spurs, every major incident committed by Spurs being nothing).
 
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Lighty64

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Don't have any football duties, retired from refereeing in the League about 15 years ago, now just follow Spurs home and away to every match, as well as my day job, but due to my refereeing background can do it with a much more neutral viewpoint than most, that see incidents only one way (every slight touch being a foul for Spurs, every major incident committed by Spurs being nothing).
When I watch a game I don't wear tinted glasses, and will admit to anyone around me if we lose, then we deserved to even when we have been the better team, because if you don't put the ball where it counts it means fuck all.

in every post about the game Saturday I have agreed we should of been battered, I agree we should of conceded a pen, and after watching it again on sky last night, Mr VAR should be ashamed, and after watching the Aguero goal from a different angle I accepted I was wrong.
 
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