Team v Newcastle (H)

Primativ

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At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don't know or see what Winks offers us in the middle of the park where he continually gets in people's first 11s..

He's not very good defensively, and on the ball he is FAR too timid and passive with his passing. Sideways and back, sideways and back. I feel a big part of our problems lay with this guy, and I feel Poch is trying to shoe horn him in to the side and it's making us less balanced.

At the base of the diamond we either need an out and out DM, or we need someone who is more proactive with his playmaking. I can see why Poch plays him there, as Winks is comfortable in possession and less likely to lose the ball in an area of the pitch where if you do lose the ball, you can very easily concede chances and goals, but it's still not enough because he doesn't offer enough defensive protection.

Winks is too vanilla, he's neither proactive with the ball, nor is he a specialist DM. He offers next to nothing going forward. Recycling the ball is not enough to justify a place especially against lesser sides like Newcastle.
 

yankspurs

“We’re not a selling club”
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I think Lo Celso should start. The team which has the best chance of beating Arsenal next week includes him in the starting XI. But before we know if he can do that, he needs minutes against Newcastle.

Lloris​

KWP ------Toby -----Jan---------- Rose

Ndombele Winks Lo Celso

Son -----Kane -----Moura
Have you ever seen lo celso play enough to make that conclusion? Or are we judging this off 8 minutes of play where he didnt touch the ball once?
 

yankspurs

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Time to introduce Lo Celso
He just arrived in a brand new city in a brand new country with a new language less than 2 weeks ago. Let’s take it slow with him and not throw him to the wolves immediately, shall we?
 

buckley

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It just shows how people view things differently my self included obviously but for me Winks would always start when fit .
One mans ceiling is another mans floor and all that I see class where someone else sees crap go figure.
 

yankspurs

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At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don't know or see what Winks offers us in the middle of the park where he continually gets in people's first 11s..

He's not very good defensively, and on the ball he is FAR too timid and passive with his passing. Sideways and back, sideways and back. I feel a big part of our problems lay with this guy, and I feel Poch is trying to shoe horn him in to the side and it's making us less balanced.

At the base of the diamond we either need an out and out DM, or we need someone who is more proactive with his playmaking. I can see why Poch plays him there, as Winks is comfortable in possession and less likely to lose the ball in an area of the pitch where if you do lose the ball, you can very easily concede chances and goals, but it's still not enough because he doesn't offer enough defensive protection.

Winks is too vanilla, he's neither proactive with the ball, nor is he a specialist DM. He offers next to nothing going forward. Recycling the ball is not enough to justify a place especially against lesser sides like Newcastle.
Stop. Winks is absolutely crucial to our play. He links the midfield and attack. If there is a reason our CM hasnt been strong this season even though we signed Ndombele, it’s because Sissoko has reverted to type the last 2 matches. Drop him for Dier so we have a true DM, we would look a whole different proposition.
 

Primativ

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Stop. Winks is absolutely crucial to our play. He links the midfield and attack. If there is a reason our CM hasnt been strong this season even though we signed Ndombele, it’s because Sissoko has reverted to type the last 2 matches. Drop him for Dier so we have a true DM, we would look a whole different proposition.

Sorry but I completely and utterly disagree with you. How on earth can you watch Spurs games and come to the conclusion that Winks is absolutely crucial to our play? Since when does recycling the ball with simple sideways and backwards unambitious passive play it safe passing become crucial to our play? Winks is the reason our play is so slow and pedestrian. Anyone can see it. NDombele is the one who links midfield and attack with his progressive passing and dribbling, and it will get more obvious the longer and longer he plays and settles into the side and league.

Same old story with some people. Blame other players to explain why there favourites aren’t performing. With NDombele in the side, Winks is completely redundant. There is nothing that Winks can do that NDombele can’t
(Once he settles). Sissoko is actually more useful as he offers defensive attributes, power and pace plus he can just transition midfield to attack with brute force.

Don’t get me wrong, Sissoko is generally useless in the attacking phase but Winks is equally as ineffective in the attacking phase.

The sooner Poch wakes up and realises Winks is not the little Xavi he wants him to be, the quicker we will improve as a side both attacking and in defence. It’s no coincidence in my mind the decline of our performances and regression in defence and attack has come since Poch has relied on Winks more and more.

If I’m wrong I’ll hold my hands up but I think Winks will eventually be dropped and we will then improve markedly with a different CM combination.
 
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Dzejkob

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Aug 13, 2012
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479
I don't know. I try very hard to pick 3 players from Son, Lamela, Lucas, Eriksen, Lo Celso. Lamela had a very good start of the season so should play, Eriksen is well... Eriksen, I'm just used to him in starting eleven. It would be harsh on Lucas not to start him after good preseason and great cameo in Manchester. Son is Son. He is just class. We will need him vs Arsenal so we must give him minutes. Lo Celso - is there a better time for debiut than Newcastle at home? And the best part is that there is also Dele.

Behind them we have to pick two from Winks, Ndombele, Sissoko, as I don't belive we need all of them against Newcastle. Ndombele for sure. Sissoko gives great cover for... everybody. His strength and power is welcome at every game. So I would pick him instead of Winks as I think he gives better defensive cover than Winks. Even against bottom teams we need someone more defensive. So maybe Dier?

It's very difficult to pick starting eleven. In Poch we trust.
 

dtxspurs

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Sorry but I completely and utterly disagree with you. How on earth can you watch Spurs games and come to the conclusion that Winks is absolutely crucial to our play? Since when does recycling the ball with simple sideways and backwards unambitious passive play it safe passing become crucial to our play? Winks is the reason our play is so slow and pedestrian. Anyone can see it. NDombele is the one who links midfield and attack with his progressive passing and dribbling, and it will get more obvious the longer and longer he plays and settles into the side and league.

Same old story with some people. Blame other players to explain why there favourites aren’t performing. With NDombele in the side, Winks is completely redundant. There is nothing that Winks can do that NDombele can’t
(Once he settles). Sissoko is actually more useful as he offers defensive attributes, power and pace plus he can just transition midfield to attack with brute force.

Don’t get me wrong, Sissoko is generally useless in the attacking phase but Winks is equally as ineffective in the attacking phase.

The sooner Poch wakes up and realises Winks is not the little Xavi he wants him to be, the quicker we will improve as a side both attacking and in defence. It’s no coincidence in my mind the decline of our performances and regression in defence and attack has come since Poch has relied on Winks more and more.

If I’m wrong I’ll hold my hands up but I think Winks will eventually be dropped and we will then improve markedly with a different CM combination.
This is the biggest issue with me. Ndombele can dictate play just fine on his own and all the passes Winks is in position to receive from deep, I'd much rather have Ndombele getting. I actually think he lessens Ndombele's influence.
 

Kingellesar

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He just arrived in a brand new city in a brand new country with a new language less than 2 weeks ago. Let’s take it slow with him and not throw him to the wolves immediately, shall we?
We don't play Wolves until 14th December, reckon he might be ok then.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
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He just arrived in a brand new city in a brand new country with a new language less than 2 weeks ago. Let’s take it slow with him and not throw him to the wolves immediately, shall we?
It will be over 3 wreks since he signed. Ndomble started the first game.
 

wrd

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Aug 22, 2014
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Stop. Winks is absolutely crucial to our play. He links the midfield and attack. If there is a reason our CM hasnt been strong this season even though we signed Ndombele, it’s because Sissoko has reverted to type the last 2 matches. Drop him for Dier so we have a true DM, we would look a whole different proposition.
The problem with Sissoko is the responsibilities that Poch has given him this season, his role has more attacking aspects to it now and he's practically the 4th man on all our attacks which is just plain stupid. Villa were able to mark our other 3 out the game because the man left over was sissoko and they were comfortable with him getting the ball.
 

Shadydan

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The problem with Sissoko is the responsibilities that Poch has given him this season, his role has more attacking aspects to it now and he's practically the 4th man on all our attacks which is just plain stupid. Villa were able to mark our other 3 out the game because the man left over was sissoko and they were comfortable with him getting the ball.
Lo Celso will come in and take that role eventually I reckon.
 

Primativ

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This is the biggest issue with me. Ndombele can dictate play just fine on his own and all the passes Winks is in position to receive from deep, I'd much rather have Ndombele getting. I actually think he lessens Ndombele's influence.
Exactly. Surely we’d rather have NDombele on the ball in those deep positions, who has far better passing and vision than Winks. That’s not to say NDombele should be stuck in the deeper role all the time, he can be fluid and can cause damage higher up the pitch too but that’s why surely it be better to have a dedicated DM who can break up play and offer some proper defensive screening, and then play it simple to the real ball players like NDombele and GLC.

I think we would be better off building our CM around NDombele rather than trying to fit him into a slightly lesser role because of Winks.

I genuinely think Poch has a blind spot with Winks. He seems to think he’s his pet project and will turn him into the type of Barcelona possession based midfielder he came up against so often in La Liga but I just can’t see it. I hope he’s not too stubborn.
 

wrd

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Lo Celso will come in and take that role eventually I reckon.
Agreed and it's probably the reason we have persisted with the diamond, it will make a lot more sense with the likes of Dele and Lo Celso. Then Sissoko can battle it out with Winks for who gets to partner Ndombele, it's not ideal performance wise in the short term but long term we will have great depth. I think people have been a little harsh on Winks last couple of games just because he came off and we won vs Villa but the reality was that as soon we changed who that 4th man was as an attacking outlet they couldn't contain us as easily.
 

Shadydan

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Exactly. Surely we’d rather have NDombele on the ball in those deep positions, who has far better passing and vision than Winks. That’s not to say NDombele should be stuck in the deeper role all the time, he can be fluid and can cause damage higher up the pitch too but that’s why surely it be better to have a dedicated DM who can break up play and offer some proper defensive screening, and then play it simple to the real ball players like NDombele and GLC.

I think we would be better off building our CM around NDombele rather than trying to fit him into a slightly lesser role because of Winks.

I genuinely think Poch has a blind spot with Winks. He seems to think he’s his pet project and will turn him into the type of Barcelona possession based midfielder he came up against so often in La Liga but I just can’t see it. I hope he’s not too stubborn.
We probably need Ndombele breaking lines and running forward, we don't need two players doing the same job, he got 7 assists last season so he's useful further up the pitch.
 

BigSiss

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Aug 21, 2019
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I'd like to see

Loris

KWP
Sanchez
Veretonghen
Rose

N'Domblee
Sissoko
Lo Celso

Son
Moura
Kane

With Eriksen and Lamela on the bench.

The whole Vertonghen not playing issue is odd. I still feel he is our most reliable defender. He also seems broadly happy to stay beyond his contract ending (if his comments in the press are right). I'm hoping there's no underlying issue there. If there isn't then I think he is first choice for the left centre back slot.

In midfield I think we have looked better when Sissoko has moved to the centre with N'Dombele. Sissoko always does his best work in the centre of the pitch. Out wide his lack of touch seems too exposed. We've also looked better in the last two games when they've worked as a pair.

I think it's also time to see what Lo Celso can bring to the party. Frankly if he does well it will ease worries about Eriksen leaving.
Sitting in front of Sissoko and N'Dombele and behind a front three would seem to be his ideal slot.

Moura and Son will give us pace and width. Eriksen and Lamela options from the tech if needed. Would hope we'd see a much improved performance.
 
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