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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 14th July 2014

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Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
Lamela is left footed but has always played on the right wing

Several Ajax fans that I know tell me Eriksen actially played as a left attacking mid - not centrally - drifting into the centre. Curiously Tim got that one spot on.

Edit before someone does - Lamela played as a right sided striker at Roma but as no 10 in the centre nehind the striker aty River Plate
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
I dont see that kind of potential in Davies. Plus, we need a good LB now! We cant wait for a few years. Look at our squad! We have very good quality in multiple areas and are only a few pieces from CL, mainly on the left side! We need those upgrades now to ensure we can keep our quality players and continue to improve the squad and be able to field a competitive team as we head toward a new stadium.

We are apparently spending 10m now on a player who wasnt good last season whose potential is good, not great or excellent.

Keeping all these factors in mind, its just not a good piece of business.

And if I see another "davies is worth 10m because thats what the market says" post, im going to freak. Look at the overall market, FFS! Not just in English football! If Ben Davies was not playing in England or Wales, we would not be hearing quoted fees 10mill or 12mill. We'd be hearing fees of 5 mill to 8 mill(on the tip top high end). Thats the real market! Prices for players in enish football are skewed and do mot represent the market. The market is what a player is actually worth. Clubs are paying way above market value in England football! For a club that is well run, tries to balance the books, and is ambitious, we shouldnt be paying way above market value like the fees are in the premier league. The whole thats market value argument is bullshit and liverpool has proven that. Was Andy Carroll really worth £35mill???? Hell no! Was Adam Lallana really worth £25mill? Hell no! If Erik Lamela was playing in england instead of Roma, we would have had to pay at least 45mill for him and would not have been able to afford him! The whole market value argument is completely out the window in the premier league befause of outrageous quoted fees. Davies real market value is not 10mill. Its about half that!
Davies is worth 10m because thats what the market says.

Yet again, I can't be bothered to give you another "proper" response because I can't stand the endless hyperbole.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,845
34,028
Jesus wept. You really aren't all that bright, are you?



There you are. You've decided that you are right and Pochettino is wrong. Davies is going to be a poor signing. Clearly, it hasn't entered your head that Pochettino, Baldini, Broomfield et al might just have got things right.
If I don't look bright is is because I'm arguing with a fool.

Of course Poch, Baldini & Broomfield (assuming all 3 agree on the signing) could have things right, but they also could have things wrong. We don't live in an ideal world where all footballing decisions are made correctly, just as Ramos & Comolli got the Bentley & Bent signings wrong. Don't you yourself think that AVB & Baldini were wrong to sign Soldado?

Anyway, I don't rate Davies you seem happy with the potential signing, rather than go around in circles, why don't we just leave it there.
 

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Aug 2, 2008
3,916
13,215
I dont see that kind of potential in Davies. Plus, we need a good LB now! We cant wait for a few years. Look at our squad! We have very good quality in multiple areas and are only a few pieces from CL, mainly on the left side! We need those upgrades now to ensure we can keep our quality players and continue to improve the squad and be able to field a competitive team as we head toward a new stadium.

We are apparently spending 10m now on a player who wasnt good last season whose potential is good, not great or excellent.

Keeping all these factors in mind, its just not a good piece of business.

And if I see another "davies is worth 10m because thats what the market says" post, im going to freak. Look at the overall market, FFS! Not just in English football! If Ben Davies was not playing in England or Wales, we would not be hearing quoted fees 10mill or 12mill. We'd be hearing fees of 5 mill to 8 mill(on the tip top high end). Thats the real market! Prices for players in enish football are skewed and do mot represent the market. The market is what a player is actually worth. Clubs are paying way above market value in England football! For a club that is well run, tries to balance the books, and is ambitious, we shouldnt be paying way above market value like the fees are in the premier league. The whole thats market value argument is bullshit and liverpool has proven that. Was Andy Carroll really worth £35mill???? Hell no! Was Adam Lallana really worth £25mill? Hell no! If Erik Lamela was playing in england instead of Roma, we would have had to pay at least 45mill for him and would not have been able to afford him! The whole market value argument is completely out the window in the premier league befause of outrageous quoted fees. Davies real market value is not 10mill. Its about half that!

To give a good example, Martin Indi, starting CB/LB in a WC semifinalist signed for Porto for 6m
 

Rethink

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
181
342
People are harsh on Davies just because he isn't explosive.

He's a bloody good defender. Intelligent, disciplined, great reader of the game, composed, uses the ball well. Only in England do we prize simple raw pace over the technical and mental qualities that make up genuinely good players.

my only concern with Davies (after watching a fair few Swansea games last year) is that he has a tendency to get skinned quite frequently and whilst the Swansea fans are more tolerant of that (giving their home grown lad a bit of slack), we (or indeed Liverpool) would certainly not be....

passing wise, tackling, positioning, etc etc etc ....all good ...but putting it simply he lacks a little raw pace and got skinned a lot last year -


but thats not to say im against this signing per se, just something to note
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
To give a good example, Martin Indi, starting CB/LB in a WC semifinalist signed for Porto for 6m

Surprises me were not in there for that quality player at that price. But think he;s more of a CB than a LB

But its true that there are not that many great LB's around and never have been - how many players play well on the left and how many good defenders are there, especially ones who are fast as modern FB's are played as WB's ? Its probably one of the worst positions possible to fill.

So if we find one we like - we will be lucky if he's cheap
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,800
23,813
They (Holland) played 3 CB's and he was the left one, although when dragged out to LB he looked about as comfortable as Jan does.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
Davies is worth 10m because thats what the market says.

Yet again, I can't be bothered to give you another "proper" response because I can't stand the endless hyperbole.
What in the fuck are you on? Thats like saying Lallana was worth 25mill and Carroll was worth 35mill. Theres not hyperbole. You just cannot wrap your head around the fact that english clubs are paying too much money for english/welsh players. Those fees are not what the market says they are worth. Clubs are asking for so much money that it is impossible for clubs to haggle them down to what their true value is. 10m is not what Davies true market value is. The notion that it is is quite absurd. As @Ossie85 said, Martins Indi was sold for 6m. He is a much better player than Davies and is only 22. That is true market value right there.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
:shrug: Market value is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. No more, no less.
You do know that clubs do pay over market value sometimes, right? For example, pretty much any player an english/welsh club buys from another english/welsh club. More specifically, Liverpool paying £35mill for Carroll. Liverpool paying £25mill for Adam Lallana. Hull paying £7m for Robert Snodgrass. Fulham paying 10m for Ross McCormack. Shall I continue?

What about Man United offering 120mill for Gareth Bale? Does that make him worth that? No, it does not. Bales true market value was probably right around what we got for him.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
What in the fuck are you on? Thats like saying Lallana was worth 25mill and Carroll was worth 35mill. Theres not hyperbole. You just cannot wrap your head around the fact that english clubs are paying too much money for english/welsh players. Those fees are not what the market says they are worth. Clubs are asking for so much money that it is impossible for clubs to haggle them down to what their true value is. 10m is not what Davies true market value is. The notion that it is is quite absurd. As @Ossie85 said, Martins Indi was sold for 6m. He is a much better player than Davies and is only 22. That is true market value right there.
I only said it to wind you up. Also, you forgot that Scottish and Irish players are overpriced as well. We all know that British players are overpriced but if he's the one Poch wants, I won't complain if we spend £10m on him. Also, I strongly disagree with your assessment of Davies' potential (and current ability) and I doubt you've seen enough of him to come to your judgement. Swansea fans speak every highly of him and that by itself is more valid than the vast majority of any of our opinions. They've seen him play and analysed his performances way more than people on here.

To put a spin in it, many people outside the world of Tottenham think that Lamela has been a flop and a shit player. We know he's not. Many Spurs fans think that Davies is poor/average whereas Swansea fans know he's not that either.
 

sweetness

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2006
1,117
832
You do know that clubs do pay over market value sometimes, right? For example, pretty much any player an english/welsh club buys from another english/welsh club. More specifically, Liverpool paying £35mill for Carroll. Liverpool paying £25mill for Adam Lallana. Hull paying £7m for Robert Snodgrass. Fulham paying 10m for Ross McCormack. Shall I continue?

What about Man United offering 120mill for Gareth Bale? Does that make him worth that? No, it does not. Bales true market value was probably right around what we got for him.

market value
noun
noun: market value; plural noun: market values

  1. the amount for which something can be sold on a given market.
    "insurance may only cover the current market value of your car"
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
You do know that clubs do pay over market value sometimes, right? For example, pretty much any player an english/welsh club buys from another english/welsh club. More specifically, Liverpool paying £35mill for Carroll. Liverpool paying £25mill for Adam Lallana. Hull paying £7m for Robert Snodgrass. Fulham paying 10m for Ross McCormack. Shall I continue?

What about Man United offering 120mill for Gareth Bale? Does that make him worth that? No, it does not. Bales true market value was probably right around what we got for him.
Ask yourself why clubs offer and/or demand that much for English players. In simple economics terms, there is a low supply for quality English players, and a high demand. That pushes the price higher than for a comparably skilled foreign player, where there is higher supply and lower demand.

It does not mean the market value of the English players is wrong - but it does present some opportunities to find gems if you are not looking for English-born players.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
I only said it to wind you up. Also, you forgot that Scottish and Irish players are overpriced as well. We all know that British players are overpriced but if he's the one Poch wants, I won't complain if we spend £10m on him. Also, I strongly disagree with your assessment of Davies' potential (and current ability) and I doubt you've seen enough of him to come to your judgement. Swansea fans speak every highly of him and that by itself is more valid than the vast majority of any of our opinions. They've seen him play and analysed his performances way more than people on here.

To put a spin in it, many people outside the world of Tottenham think that Lamela has been a flop and a shit player. We know he's not. Many Spurs fans think that Davies is poor/average whereas Swansea fans know he's not that either.
Most of the swansea forums I have read do not speak very highly about Davies at all. Ive watched Swansea quite a few times over the past 2 years. Davies is about the same quality as Danny Rose from what I have seen. And from what I have seen, I just do not see excellent potential, like I see in Walker or in Shaw. I see a player who has the potential to be a good, but not great or top 4 worthy player.

And the Lamela thing is completely different. We know he wasnt shit or a flop because he was hurt for about 70% of the season and was wrongly not played for the time he was even fit.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
Ask yourself why clubs offer and/or demand that much for English players. In simple economics terms, there is a low supply for quality English players, and a high demand. That pushes the price higher than for a comparably skilled foreign player, where there is higher supply and lower demand.

It does not mean the market value of the English players is wrong - but it does present some opportunities to find gems if you are not looking for English-born players.
That is true but it does not make their true market value that much money and does not make them actually worth that much money. Just makes them overpriced.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
Wait to see if they release the bench list...

EDIT: He's on the bench.

Well, I do get drunk alot. But no, I read them sober(y)
He would have started IMO if there was no transfer stuff. We will get a real gauge of how far a transfer is across the line if he comes off the bench or not.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
He would have started IMO if there was no transfer stuff. We will get a real gauge of how far a transfer is across the line if he comes off the bench or not.
If there was anything even close he wouldnt be available for selection. The fact he is shows there is nothing really popping off just yet. Clearly, a fee has not been agreed as has been suggested(which is good news, IMO. hope levy is trying to get that fee down)
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
If there was anything even close he wouldnt be available for selection. The fact he is shows there is nothing really popping off just yet. Clearly, a fee has not been agreed as has been suggested(which is good news, IMO. hope levy is trying to get that fee down)

Relax, in the days of £50m for Luiz and £34m for Shaw. £10m for a 21 year old international is not that much.
 
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