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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 22nd January 2019

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Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
I am so confused, ITK and all of BSoDL are saying that the problem is Poch and he is being stubborn and wants to focus on youth and was happy with zero signings in the summer etc and now the man himself is saying he is and was open to improving the squad/team.

Good on Poch for coming out and saying it as it is. The ball is in the clubs court.

He also mentioned in that interview, but people that are in panic mode left out is

"we also need to sell as we have a full squad"
 

Fredo

Realist
Jun 8, 2018
3,934
17,956
The bold text is exactly the sort of inane stuff I’m talking about. “If you don’t follow my way of thinking, you must think the real world is like FM”. It’s patronising nonsense.

Liverpool wanted Keita, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Salah, Firmino, Mane - they went out and got them all - now look at them.

I’m sure all of us want to push on, but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
Exactly this. Lets hope some of our fans don't become like the deluded ArsenalFanTV's TY. Starting to feel like it.
 

hakano

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2005
727
1,517
The problem isn't strictly Poch, it's improving our side in his eyes with the budget we have. He knows it's not easy hence no signings at all in the last 12 months.

I take it with a huge pinch of salt but figures of 150m in the summer and 100m budget now? For me and I judge on what I see has happened and is happening across the football world pure incompetence to not be able to improve our team / squad over the last two windows - whoever it is that is responsible. Whether it's DL / Poch / Scouts, whoever. We are not talking about the most wonderful team in the history of football that is winning all before it that we can not find a single affordable player that will improve us. Whatever process we have it is broken.

I am actually of the opinion that we don't need any knee-jerk signings and rather focus on a quality CM before attack if we magically found a way to sign a player.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I take it with a huge pinch of salt but figures of 150m in the summer and 100m budget now? For me and I judge on what I see has happened and is happening across the football world pure incompetence to not be able to improve our team / squad over the last two windows - whoever it is that is responsible. Whether it's DL / Poch / Scouts, whoever. We are not talking about the most wonderful team in the history of football that is winning all before it that we can not find a single affordable player that will improve us. Whatever process we have it is broken.

I am actually of the opinion that we don't need any knee-jerk signings and rather focus on a quality CM before attack if we magically found a way to sign a player.

It's widely believed a lot of that was based on stadium naming rights.
 

hakano

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2005
727
1,517
He also mentioned in that interview, but people that are in panic mode left out is

"we also need to sell as we have a full squad"

Yes so also telling the powers that be sell those bloody players or get rid of those that I will not use. That is part of DL and his team's remit. You can not just say nobody wants our players so we are not buying anyone until someone does. It's the responsibility of the Club's to do that not Poch's.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
10,931
Our model is very simple:

1) use the academy to bring through the good to very good players on a regular basis. Now and again we may get lucky and get an excellent or world class player (Kane being the example here)

2) use the funds to sign only players who are deemed in the bracket of Excellent (with world class potential). We can not afford ready made world class players.

3) use the rest of the funds to sign promising players to join the youth team. Like we wanted Sancho last year... although he seems like he was ready for first team immediately.

Personally, I’m happy with this model. We just need to ensure we are implementing it correctly.

Not sure we are yet.
That might be our theoretical model but we don't appear have to acted consistently with it at all which makes it of zero relevance practically.

In the last 5 years give me examples of players we signed who we thought were Excellent bar Sanchez and before that Son. Lots of players we've signed apart from them. Did we seriously think Llorente was excellent, that Moura was excellent, that Janssen was excellent ? If we did then I want some of what our scouts are smoking.

Name me one signing bar perhaps Dele that fits 3). I want a mansion and a Ferrari but that doesn't mean that is my model of living if I don't have the money for it or if I do have the money if I don't make sensible offers for the mansion or try and lowball the Ferrari dealer.
 

Klinsmannesque

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2013
900
4,665
The bold text is exactly the sort of inane stuff I’m talking about. “If you don’t follow my way of thinking, you must think the real world is like FM”. It’s patronising nonsense.

Liverpool wanted Keita, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Salah, Firmino, Mane - they went out and got them all - now look at them.

I’m sure all of us want to push on, but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

It's really not. Liverpool have more money for both fee and wages. If we bring in a £70m plus player, he want's £70m wages. His agent wants a £70m signing on fee. If he gets those wages, how many players agents will be knocking DL's door down asking for parity. What feeling will that breed throughout the club that billy wonderbollocks has come in on £150k plus a week yet we've put in the graft and got us here. When all the time Poch has demanded and expected loyalty from his players.

And we really aren't doing the same thing over and over again, we are pushing on, we are improving, we just don't have the budget to do it at the rate some fans want at the moment. I'm not absolving DL of blame, he most likely has cocked up transfers trying to be clever, but we dont have the fanbase, the sponsor income, the global appeal etc. We are big in our eyes, not so much outside.

If Poch doesn't want 2nd rate options then it's understandable. If we genuinely can't afford / aren't attractive enough to top tier players then 'we must find another way to compete'. If Poch decides to leave of the back of it then he really doesn't understand the project and he's been spouting rubbish the last 5 years.
 

Ekmek

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2014
1,026
2,523
The problem isn't strictly Poch, it's improving our side in his eyes with the budget we have. He knows it's not easy hence no signings at all in the last 12 months.


I get that it is very hard to buy someone that improves our starting eleven. But improving our bench and squad depth is another story. In my opinion.
 

Mackan110

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2019
353
587
Deleted but thought it would be allowed because it's so much else "crap" here xD

Anyway, thanks !

Let's just pray poch get one if his targets ✌
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,498
The bold text is exactly the sort of inane stuff I’m talking about. “If you don’t follow my way of thinking, you must think the real world is like FM”. It’s patronising nonsense.

Liverpool wanted Keita, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Salah, Firmino, Mane - they went out and got them all - now look at them.

I’m sure all of us want to push on, but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

They also weren't building a 1 billion pound stadium and generate much more commercial revenue than us....
 
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Hoopspur

You have insufficient privileges to reply here!
Jun 28, 2012
6,332
9,703
The bold text is exactly the sort of inane stuff I’m talking about. “If you don’t follow my way of thinking, you must think the real world is like FM”. It’s patronising nonsense.

Liverpool wanted Keita, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Salah, Firmino, Mane - they went out and got them all - now look at them.

I’m sure all of us want to push on, but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
I don’t like this. Yes, they are marginally doing better but at what cost? Of course they may well win the league, but let’s wait and see. They have spent a huge amount of money so far with no result. Remember also, only 1 team can win each of these competitions.

Sorry, this thread is hanging on by it’s fingernails to being ITK specific. I’ll desist.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
The bold text is exactly the sort of inane stuff I’m talking about. “If you don’t follow my way of thinking, you must think the real world is like FM”. It’s patronising nonsense.

Liverpool wanted Keita, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Salah, Firmino, Mane - they went out and got them all - now look at them.

I’m sure all of us want to push on, but doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
You’re a smart guy and you express yourself well - I respect your view. There are many here who for a long time have been behaving as though the transfer market is an end in itself. That view is wrong and it is being called out.

It’s also not quite how it’s played out though with respect to Liverpool. They started Klopp’s reign with a weaker squad than us. Since he came in they have spent serious money - over half a billion - to compete. We’ve spent that kind of money too - on a stadium.

They’ve been boosted by a HUGE sale that is over 50% more than our Bale windfall. And for all that they still haven’t finished above us in the league.

I also think that much of the discussion in this thread has conflated two separate issues:
1) How the club thinks we should behave.
2) How we as fans think we should behave

The itk has made VERY clear something that many of us have argued for a long time, that Poch and Levy are on the same page and that neither want us to splash cash on players that don’t improve the first team. That means the first issue is resolved, despite the attempts of some to behave like ostriches.

The second issue is of course an open question. Unlike your characterisation, there is been little to no demonisation of this stance. People are, and should be, entitled to their view.
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
I don’t like this. Yes, they are marginally doing better but at what cost? Of course they may well win the league, but let’s wait and see. They have spent a huge amount of money so far with no result. Remember also, only 1 team can win each of these competitions.

Sorry, this thread is hanging on by it’s fingernails to being ITK specific. I’ll desist.

I thought it was regarding the latest ITK, tbf - but happy to remove if I’m wrong (often am).

My point about Pool was badly made, I was walking and tapping on my phone. I didn’t mean that we should emulate Liverpool, I was more responding to somebody saying “it’s not as easy to just go out and get the players you want”. I don’t think it’s easy, and I’ve never played FM, but it is possible if you pay the going rates. I don’t think we should go out and spend £200m, but there are glaring weaknesses in the squad that I’m hoping don’t cause a capitulation like Spurs of old.

We should draw a line here anyway, I don’t want anything different to any of you - I just mainly thought the tone was needlessly rude and condescending from some.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,941
28,069
The problem isn't strictly Poch, it's improving our side in his eyes with the budget we have. He knows it's not easy hence no signings at all in the last 12 months.

Well surely we run the risk of him moving to a club with a bigger budget.
 

midoNdefoe

the member formerly and technically still known as
Mar 9, 2005
3,107
3,166
Is it really knee-jerk considering how often it appears the club has failed in the market though? I can't honestly believe that he's happy with the state of the squad currently, it makes no sense.

The only thing I can think is he's reluctant to get someone in this window as they would have to hit the ground running and that's always a risk...or the targets he's been given that are attainable aren't at the level he'd like.

It makes no sense to you! A casual fan with a transfer fixation.

Crucially, it does make sense to Poch, our very astute manager who has lifted us to a new level and looks set to continue our trajectory for the forseeable future.

How often we fail in the transfer market aswell? Come on mate, you're never gonna let the summer window go will you? Even if we were to drag ourselves back into the title-race and somehow win it, you'd still be rattling on about failings and lack of transfers.
 

jay2040

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,635
4,165
It seems life was much simpler with mid table mediocrity before!

Our new found consistency and success poses new questions of our chairman and left us wanting more. End of the day we all want the same,just differnet ways of achieving it .
 

Paolo10

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2004
6,179
7,621
It makes no sense to you! A casual fan with a transfer fixation.

Crucially, it does make sense to Poch, our very astute manager who has lifted us to a new level and looks set to continue our trajectory for the forseeable future.

How often we fail in the transfer market aswell? Come on mate, you're never gonna let the summer window go will you? Even if we were to drag ourselves back into the title-race and somehow win it, you'd still be rattling on about failings and lack of transfers.

Lol.
 
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