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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 22nd May 2014

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Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
43,881
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And maybe I've just got me beer goggles on but I luv 'im and think we're gonna be ferocious next season.

I'd just be happy to see us make slow and steady progress. Not expecting miracles, regardless of who comes in.

Oh, not the 'fans'. :arghh:
The same fans that grumbled before Villas Boas had even sat down?
The same fans that couldn't understand why Redknapp went?
There's a fair few of these type of 'fans' about (I know you're not one of them) and to be honest if they can't see the bigger picture of the intention of appointing Poch would be, then fuck 'em. IT MIGHT NOT WORK. Poch may fail. Sure: but as it stands, he's a pretty logical appointment & hopefully will not be arrogant like Villas Boas or arrogant like Sherwood and fall out with players like Villas Boas or fall out with players like Sherwood. That's all we need: a tactically aware coach without a chip on his shoulder. Poch and FDB stand pretty equal on that IMO.

And the players? Well they can train hard & play hard and hopefully enjoy whomever is in charge of them whilst enjoying their already very comfortable and successful lives. One or two may go. Very few enhanced their reputations last season so very few may get that dream move and will have to knuckle down. So it goes...

We're not doomed. Far from it.

Oh I know there's plenty of fans that will jump on any tiny mistakes of whoever comes in, but that's part of my reasoning for being worried about Pochettino. Of all the names we've been linked with, he's the one I can see a lot of fans turning against quickly. De Boer would have the excuse of having to adapt to a new league. Benitez would have his impressive record to persuade fans that he's worth sticking with for a little while.

And Pochettino? He's already had 18 months to get used to the Prem. People will look at Southampton's lack of points from losing positions, and the amount of points lost from winning positions, and if things aren't working out I can see a lot of fans feeling that he's unable to handle a squad at a higher level, in a league he's familiar with.

As for the players...don't tell me most of our squad would have been watching or caring about Southampton. Benitez and De Boer are simply bigger names...ones that would massage their egos and make it easier to believe they're playing for a big club with real ambition. If things turn ugly in the dressing room who would you rather have at the helm, a manager who has worked with huge egos at clubs like Chelsea, Inter, Liverpool....a manager who has been in charge of the dominant force in Holland, where he's consistently instilled a winning attitude...or a manager who's biggest success has been to take potential relegation candidates to mid-table?

Not to mention the issue of attracting players to the club. Like it or not, reputation plays a big part in the psychology of fans and players alike, and Pochettino is still establishing his rep.
 

Pedro

Blue & Yellow
Jan 4, 2005
2,039
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Doesn't matter. They won't go anywhere if they have more than 2 years left on their contracts.
Iirc quite a few of our players are entering their last two years, can't remember which ones, but it did surprise me. If so, we need to renew quite a few contracts this summer.
 

Sarsipius

"Show me his legs"
Jan 18, 2005
3,207
5,493
On the subject of Poch, one of my close mates is an avid Saints fan and watches them regularly.

According to him one of Poch's greatest successes has been getting the players playing for him and apparently they all respect him massively.

Anyway, you can arrive with the greatest reputation in the world and it doesn't guarantee you'll be a success or earn the players' respect. The converse is also true.

From the little I've seen of him he strikes me as a serious and level headed guy and his tutelage under Marcelo Bielsa makes me stroke my chin with a raised eyebrow of pure intrigue.
 
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Pedro

Blue & Yellow
Jan 4, 2005
2,039
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IF (and that's a big 'if') he comes, I'll be quietly intrigued to see how well he does. Keep our best players, and win over the squad, and it could be very exciting. I'm also a big believer in Lamela coming good, and of all the managers we've been linked with, Pochettino is the one I feel could get the best out of him.

But my cider senses are tingling with trepidation.
I'm nervous about poch too, a lot comes down to the language barrier, and the raised expectations of a club the size of spurs. I think he is the riskiest appointment, but could also be the best. So many unknowns. I would prefer a safer pair of hands personally.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,840
34,012
I'd just be happy to see us make slow and steady progress. Not expecting miracles, regardless of who comes in.



Oh I know there's plenty of fans that will jump on any tiny mistakes of whoever comes in, but that's part of my reasoning for being worried about Pochettino. Of all the names we've been linked with, he's the one I can see a lot of fans turning against quickly. De Boer would have the excuse of having to adapt to a new league. Benitez would have his impressive record to persuade fans that he's worth sticking with for a little while.

And Pochettino? He's already had 18 months to get used to the Prem. People will look at Southampton's lack of points from losing positions, and the amount of points lost from winning positions, and if things aren't working out I can see a lot of fans feeling that he's unable to handle a squad at a higher level, in a league he's familiar with.

As for the players...don't tell me most of our squad would have been watching or caring about Southampton. Benitez and De Boer are simply bigger names...ones that would massage their egos and make it easier to believe they're playing for a big club with real ambition. If things turn ugly in the dressing room who would you rather have at the helm, a manager who has worked with huge egos at clubs like Chelsea, Inter, Liverpool....a manager who has been in charge of the dominant force in Holland, where he's consistently instilled a winning attitude...or a manager who's biggest success has been to take potential relegation candidates to mid-table?

Not to mention the issue of attracting players to the club. Like it or not, reputation plays a big part in the psychology of fans and players alike, and Pochettino is still establishing his rep.
I agree with most of what you have said, but in regards to attracting players, I think the lure of club (league we are in, that we are based in London etc) eill be more than either Poch, FDB or Benitez (unless we are talking specifically about players they have managed before) anyway. Remember we signed Verts when we didn't have a manager.
 

Pedro

Blue & Yellow
Jan 4, 2005
2,039
1,355
On the subject of Poch, one of my close mates is an avid Saints fan and watches them regularly.

According to him one of Poch's greatest successes has been getting the players playing for him and apparently they all respect him massively.

Anyway, you can arrive with the greatest reputation in the world and it doesn't guarantee you'll be a success or earn the players respect. The converse is also true.

From the little I've seen of him he strikes me as a serious and level headed guy and his tutelage under Marcelo Bielsa makes me stroke my chin with a raised eyebrow of pure intrigue.
It's a lot easier to win over young players that are keen to learn and playing for a relatively small prem club than a group of internationals at a club with huge expectations. I really hope the players buy into his ideas quickly if appointed, I do worry some of them think they are Billy big bollocks though and need an experienced manager to get their respect and best out of them.
 
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Gedson100

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2012
4,487
14,648
I'd just be happy to see us make slow and steady progress. Not expecting miracles, regardless of who comes in.



Oh I know there's plenty of fans that will jump on any tiny mistakes of whoever comes in, but that's part of my reasoning for being worried about Pochettino. Of all the names we've been linked with, he's the one I can see a lot of fans turning against quickly. De Boer would have the excuse of having to adapt to a new league. Benitez would have his impressive record to persuade fans that he's worth sticking with for a little while.

And Pochettino? He's already had 18 months to get used to the Prem. People will look at Southampton's lack of points from losing positions, and the amount of points lost from winning positions, and if things aren't working out I can see a lot of fans feeling that he's unable to handle a squad at a higher level, in a league he's familiar with.

As for the players...don't tell me most of our squad would have been watching or caring about Southampton. Benitez and De Boer are simply bigger names...ones that would massage their egos and make it easier to believe they're playing for a big club with real ambition. If things turn ugly in the dressing room who would you rather have at the helm, a manager who has worked with huge egos at clubs like Chelsea, Inter, Liverpool....a manager who has been in charge of the dominant force in Holland, where he's consistently instilled a winning attitude...or a manager who's biggest success has been to take potential relegation candidates to mid-table?

Not to mention the issue of attracting players to the club. Like it or not, reputation plays a big part in the psychology of fans and players alike, and Pochettino is still establishing his rep.

I hear you but:

1. I don't care what the relentless naysayer fans say or think. I didn't care that they bitched about Villas Boas for 18 months. I could see beyond the nonsense & what he was trying (and ultimately failing) to do. Indeed only after the Liverpool game did I finally agree with them that he should go.

2. Tim Sherwood coached us via the method of playing random football to comfortably finish 6th. Pochettino will be able to do at least that, even if it goes badly.

3. Players will warm to a coach they like; they won't warm to a coach because the played in World Cup '94 or who loves Liverpool or won things. If a coach comes in and doesn't get through to the players, they won't like him whoever he is.

4. Players will sign for a club primarily if they like the look of the contract offered. When we got stiffed for the CL everyone said 'we'll never be able to sign anyone...' and we went out and signed the same type of players we'd been signing previously, if not 'better' ones. Money talks far louder than coach reputations.

5. You, Spurger King, are the only person who keeps talking about losing points from winning positions. ;) I suspect this had to do with lack of options from the bench because...

6. Poch did what he did last year with 8 midfielders & 1 and a half strikers. We had 13 midfielders & 2 and 2 half strikers (Defoe then Kane). He'll have squad depth and options here

Your fears are fair, after all it's a lock that it will turn to shit eventually, but to my mind overblown.
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
43,881
95,147
I agree with most of what you have said, but in regards to attracting players, I think the lure of club (league we are in, that we are based in London etc) eill be more than either Poch, FDB or Benitez (unless we are talking specifically about players they have managed before) anyway. Remember we signed Verts when we didn't have a manager.

That's a fair point. I do tend to forget we've also got Baldini involved in bringing in players.
 

Pedro

Blue & Yellow
Jan 4, 2005
2,039
1,355
Unfortunately the below only have 2 years left:

Lloris
Verts


And not going to the world cup:

Sandro
Any idea if they have one of these magic extra year auto extensions that levy loves? Hope so, losing those three would be devastating.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I hear you but:

1. I don't care what the relentless naysayer fans say or think. I didn't care that they bitched about Villas Boas for 18 months. I could see beyond the nonsense & what he was trying (and ultimately failing) to do. Indeed only after the Liverpool game did I finally agree with them that he should go.
2. Tim Sherwood coached us via the method of playing random football to comfortably finish 6th. Pochettino will be able to do at least that, even if it goes badly.
3. Players will warm to a coach they like; they won't warm to a coach because the played in World Cup '94 or who loves Liverpool or won things. If a coach comes in and doesn't get through to the players, they won't like him whoever he is.
4. Players will sign for a club primarily if they like the look of the contract offered. When we got stiffed for the CL everyone said 'we'll never be able to sign anyone...' and we went out and signed the same type of players we'd been signing previously, if not 'better' ones. Money talks far louder than coach reputations.
5. You, Spurger King, are the only person who keeps talking about losing points from winning positions. ;) I suspect this had to do with lack of options from the bench because...
6. Poch did what he did last year with 8 midfielders & 1 and a half strikers. We had 13 midfielders & 2 and 2 half strikers (Defoe then Kane). He'll have squad depth and options here

Your fears are fair, after all it's a lock that it will turn to shit eventually, but to my mind overblown.


I like a lot of your post, but I disagree his problems protecting leads or chasing games was purely down to his bench or squad. I think that it is a lot to do with the high tempo blitz tactics he employs that are very difficult to sustain for 90 minutes. This has always been my concern, and it is entirely based on watching his Southampton play. As you may or may not know, I love a good cohesive pressing policy. I love what he gets his boys doing early on, I just think he hasn't quite refined it (I used Dortmund as a good example of a team who vary the press and defensive line well).

I perfectly happy for him to be given the job, as with AVB, I'd much rather we have a "coach" with a philosophy try and fail than a saturday team picker churning out unrecognisable lottery bollocks.

But that 60 minute tally ho followed by a running out of puff still concerns me a little.
 

Gedson100

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2012
4,487
14,648
I like a lot of your post, but I disagree his problems protecting leads or chasing games was purely down to his bench or squad. I think that it is a lot to do with the high tempo blitz tactics he employs that are very difficult to sustain for 90 minutes. This has always been my concern, and it is entirely based on watching his Southampton play. As you may or may not know, I love a good cohesive pressing policy. I love what he gets his boys doing early on, I just think he hasn't quite refined it (I used Dortmund as a good example of a team who vary the press and defensive line well).

I perfectly happy for him to be given the job, as with AVB, I'd much rather we have a "coach" with a philosophy try and fail than a saturday team picker churning out unrecognisable lottery bollocks.

But that 60 minute tally ho followed by a running out of puff still concerns me a little.
Aye, you could be right.
Ironically, this is where Villas Boas had something right. That first season in particular, the amount of times we came on strong late (obviously Bale a factor) was so common & such at odds with what Redknapp had us doing. So maybe the 'crab football' did have a more cohesive purpose than some think? We were fitter than most teams we played.

I'll give Poch a chance on that front. We seem quite keen to bulk up our players & work hard on fitness, maybe we're better prepared for a full(er) press having tried similar under AVB?
 

RuskyM

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
6,920
22,728
sorry, this is just a complete shambles. and such proof that we blew our chance.

imagine if two years ago the big replacement to harry was some argentine who's won nothing and reached a steady height of 8th, when there's two managers who have won everything abasing themselves for the job. "oh but he didn't have the players", you can say the same for gary megson. especially when if it is him then what exactly was keeping him at southampton six months ago?

everything about this reads cockup.
 

dsl

Member
Mar 8, 2007
34
46
exodus is the movement of jah people. we have no rastafarians and definitely will not have any mass player dispersal.
 
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