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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 30th May 2012

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Berglad

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2008
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Just seen that Marko Marin has said that he also had an offer from Spurs before he decided on Chelsea

Booooooo

He must have been really excited by the prospect of them signing Hazard and Hulk and that he could playing regularly in the Carling Cup.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I can't help but wonder why Chelsea bought Marin and if it wasn't almost a case of making sure someone like us didn't. I really can't see how they will possibly fit Marin, Mata & Hazard in their 433 system with Torres (or other striker).
 

hoodlum

eye have won eye, plus too others
Apr 4, 2011
2,844
1,614
He must have been really excited by the prospect of them signing Hazard and Hulk and that he could playing regularly in the Carling Cup.
Probably wouldn't have played much more with us either, tbh
 

spivmaster

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2012
587
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I can't help but wonder why Chelsea bought Marin and if it wasn't almost a case of making sure someone like us didn't. I really can't see how they will possibly fit Marin, Mata & Hazard in their 433 system with Torres (or other striker).

I think Marin will be used as a super-sub, just to add some different creativity if Mata/Hazard can't seem to get anything going.
 

soup

On the straightened arrow
May 26, 2004
3,494
3,592
Yup.
Ba humbug.
He had an immediate impact, so did Chamakh.
With that injury record, I would be wanting to see another year of him delivering and not breaking down beofre I would even remotely think there was any wisdom in going for him.

He did well on his own pre-Cisse and was a good partner pro, so he has ticked a couple of important boxes, but we can't gamble on someone like him. It's a 'told you so' just waiting to happen.

He's one of those players I'm quite happy to watch...at another team. You get the best of both worlds that way. He's not good enough to want that badly, but good enough to appreciate from afar.

Eriksen would be a great addition. I'd worry about where to play him and who he replaces when that problem arises. Give me VDV and Eriksen over VDV or Eriksen any day. It's also never quite right without a Scandinavian at the club. Get him in.

As for Harry, I don't know, but really can't see Vertonghen signing the day Harry leaves. As Judge Judy says, 'if something doesn't make sense, it's usually not true'. Not to knock ITKs, as I know they're passing the good stuff on in good faith, but it feels more like, at best, an insider's educated speculation, rather than gospel.

Great ITK reading so far this window anyway. Keep up the good work you ITK mothers.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,776
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I can't help but wonder why Chelsea bought Marin and if it wasn't almost a case of making sure someone like us didn't. I really can't see how they will possibly fit Marin, Mata & Hazard in their 433 system with Torres (or other striker).

Yeah its a weird one. Only reasoning I could apply is that they'll want to fight on many fronts so its probably just a case of enhancing the overall quality of the squad, I can't see how all of them would start regularly together.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
10,280
Oh, be fair, his impact was altogether less immediate than Chamakh's.

Given that one or both of his knees could explode any moment, however, we should stay well clear.

Is there any ITK regarding this?

Hyperbole...to emphasise a point - you should be familiar with this ;)

1) Can you explain this ? I never said it was the same, my point it we all look at it from a Spurs view - you have to take yourself out of that and look at it as a professional. You say they are not a like but the principles are the same, if you do a good job you expect to be rewarded, and in what you do you (ideally) want to work with the best in that field. Example: If you were a manager at Aldi and you got an offer to work for Tesco. A contract is a piece of paper with the player's salary on it...the years mean nothing until its the last year and they can leave for free. So I think its a lot more similar and you have to look beyond the absolute sums they are paid and scale it down to your average person's salary.

2) OK then what about Jagielka at the first few months of this season? He and the manager admitted the summer speculation affected him and he was awful at the start of the season, I remember watching MOTD and he was all over the shop. Luckily he managed to turn it around and get into the Euros squad. I'm not saying we should be grateful to Modric for...well doing his job really...as he did say he was "not fit to play" the first two games. But I am saying I have some respect for him for his professionalism because over the years there have been many many others who haven't been as professional.

1) Gladly: Team sports, in a way that no profession is, is entorely dependent on the ability of clubs to build a team. Professional footballers are paid a huge amont on this basic assumption of the game, that they accept abnormal employment conditions to facilitate the sport as a sport, in return incredible wage levels. The whole transfer market depends on it. If your boss called you into the office and said (for example), "look son, you're the best sub-editor I have, but we need to balance the books and <THE REAL MADRID OF PUBLISHING WORLD> are in for you, we're happy to sell" then your job, or any job, would be analagous to football. But it doesn;t happen like that, and if it did, you would rightly point to it as an infringement of your liberty. Likewise, if you walked into the bosses notice and gave two weeks notice, and he/she said you could go, you would do same. It is just not a matter of scales of salary.
Also, footballers earn a huge salary partially on the basis that they have extremely short careers. I have done all manner of jobs, literally - I am yet to have one of them say "Look, SP, welding, labouring, indexing/cataloguing/whatevering can be a short career, so we are going to give you £50,000 a week. It just doesn;t happen. When this isn;t taken into account with professional footballers, and their wages are reduced, they jobs will be more like yours or mine. *Incidentally, I personally believe part of the reason for doing this is wholly spurious - when Jimmy Hill campaigned to abolish the maximum wage for footballers, the argument was that, mostly, they had sacrificed the chance of having a lifetime career by being a pro footballer - now, what with endorsements, 500 biographis, media work, blah, blah, blah, they continue at a massive earning rate for the rest of their lives, ut that is an aside.
Also, professional footballers get paid a huge wage, in part, because of the nature of their sport as a spectator game, and the huge revenues that creates. I think this is quite fair, actually, but it is certainly not like a profit share in conventional emplyment, where you get a flat rate, nowhere near what a profootballer earns, and then a add-on bonus of a percentage of your wage, usually consierably less than 100% of your wage.
So, it is totally impossible to compare your situation at work, in any way, with the working life and condition of a pro footballer, and it is certainly not just a case of scaling down the salary.
Besides, if I was only looking at it from a Spurs view, I wuoldn't have said when we signed him that if we kept him for three years and then sold him at profit I would be happy, but I did, and I specifically referenced it in the post you are quoting. That is looking at it in a hard-headed business manner, which is what you are talking about. If I had looked at it totally from a Spurs point of view I would have said it was obvious that he would be a great player and we must do everything to never lose him. As a professional in any other industry, I would look at it as a professional in that industry, and mostly that means the conditions you or I work under; as a professional footballer I would understand intimately that one of the reasons I was being paid an exhorbitant sum of money was that I was tacitly accepting that the normal rules just plain bluntly did not apply.
You also mention if I was good at my job I would expect to be rewarded - well, Modric was, when he signed a 6 year contract, and there is, by all accounts, another new contract, with another hefty wage increase, on the table and there has been for quite some time.
The fact that he wanted a move to further his career is something I nderstand and can sympathise with, on a professional level, the fact that he behaved like a sneaky little :censored:, conniving with his hoped for future employers to try to force his current eompluers to accept considerably less than current market value, even though he had five years left on his contract, that he signed of his own free-will, is something totally different.

2) Why should he be commended for being proffesional. There are millions of people over the World who never get a thanks for that - the fact that he behaved like a sneaky little :censored:, conniving with his hoped for future employers to try to force his current eompluers to accept considerably less than current market value, even though he had five years left on his contract, that he signed of his own free-will doesn't make his subsequent return to being professional something remarkable, it makes his he behaved like a sneaky little :censored:, conniving with his hoped for future employers to try to force his current eompluers to accept considerably less than current market value, even though he had five years left on his contract, that he signed of his own free-will something remarkable and very uncommendable.or are you now going to commmend every player at the end of every season for being professional. Players like Dean Richards put up with a horrible amount of horrible abuse and continue to act in a professional manner - I didn't notice him being commended for continuing to behave in a professional manner. Besides, professional sportmen like Luka Modric do get commended - every time the crowd sings their name, or the manager massages their egos (again, things that don't happen in the normal Worldof employment.
 

shaqTHFC

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
1,546
807
I can't help but wonder why Chelsea bought Marin and if it wasn't almost a case of making sure someone like us didn't. I really can't see how they will possibly fit Marin, Mata & Hazard in their 433 system with Torres (or other striker).

A switch to 4-2-3-1 perhaps? When Mata played centrally this season was that in a 4-2-3-1 or in a midfield 3 of a 4-3-3?
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
that post about Chelsea signing all of harrys targets, just add Dembele to the list as the sun is now linking a move so it seems they are just trying to screw us after the luka saga
 

midge

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2011
400
784
I can't help but wonder why Chelsea bought Marin and if it wasn't almost a case of making sure someone like us didn't. I really can't see how they will possibly fit Marin, Mata & Hazard in their 433 system with Torres (or other striker).

I think Chelsea do not know where they will play Marin either given they have not decided on who is the manager
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
4-2-3-1 I'd presume.

Mikel Lampard

Hazard Mata Marin

Torres

Like us, but a bit better now :(
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
Admin
Jan 14, 2004
15,104
9,113
4-2-3-1 I'd presume.

Mikel Lampard

Hazard Mata Marin

Torres

Like us, but a bit better now :(

That isn't as good as us. Certainly with Mikel and Lampard in midfield, if you throw Ramires in it gets better but Lampard won't be able to cut it in centre much longer so I'm sure one of Hazard, Mata or Marin will miss out regularly.

I'm happy with:

Sandro Modric​
Lennon VDV Bale​
Adebayor​
Hardly weak and our central midfield is miles better, striker better too (assuming we resign adebayor)​
 

Antilokhos

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2010
482
745
4-2-3-1 I'd presume.

Mikel Lampard

Hazard Mata Marin

Torres

Like us, but a bit better now :(

I think you are way off in that being stronger than us. You basically are playing 4 guys who put in absolutely zero work defensively. They will be left wide open if they try to play that way. Also they now need to somehow fit Hulk in there too. Chelsea are appearing to do what City did when they first found money, buy players with no clue as to how they fit together.
 

DanNolan

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2006
1,369
2,524
theproblem i have, is if you add modric to that teamfor example, or a player in the mould of modric you get

Mikel/Ramires Lampard/Modric

Hazard Mata Marin/Hulk

Torres (lakuku/sturridge/hulk)

This team worries me a lot more :(
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
Admin
Jan 14, 2004
15,104
9,113
theproblem i have, is if you add modric to that teamfor example, or a player in the mould of modric you get

Mikel/Ramires Lampard/Modric

Hazard Mata Marin/Hulk

Torres (lakuku/sturridge/hulk)

This team worries me a lot more :(

Why worried?
 

The Watcher

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2012
694
622
theproblem i have, is if you add modric to that teamfor example, or a player in the mould of modric you get

Mikel/Ramires Lampard/Modric

Hazard Mata Marin/Hulk

Torres (lakuku/sturridge/hulk)

This team worries me a lot more :(

I find it very hard to believe that Daniel Levy will be allowing Modric to go to Chelsea after their behaviour last summer.
 

Cravenspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2011
2,864
3,680
The thought of Chelsea lining up with the aforementioned players is a bit scary, but come on guys. We have always been the underdog. Isn't that why we like this team. We strengthen our squad by being smart, not by throwing money around like some bombastic idiots. FFP will hopefully catch up with the likes of chelsea and man city. Sadly I respect Man U more now then I ever had. At least they aren't as arrogant.
 

spivmaster

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2012
587
829
The thought of Chelsea lining up with the aforementioned players is a bit scary, but come on guys. We have always been the underdog. Isn't that why we like this team. We strengthen our squad by being smart, not by throwing money around like some bombastic idiots. FFP will hopefully catch up with the likes of chelsea and man city. Sadly I respect Man U more now then I ever had. At least they aren't as arrogant.

I hope so, but I just keep thinking that Chelski and City have found some loopholes in the FFP rules, otherwise why would they keep spending like they have been?
 

Graysonti

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2011
3,904
5,823
Chelsea are insolvent

The Russian is ruining the game.

Why not spend that money progressing the human race in one form or another, vile.

Total contempt
 
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