The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 9th August 2012

[Bus-Conductor]

Indeed. There are definite weakensses though. Why don't we go after a Cisse or another Berbatov? We seem to think as a club that it's shit or bust time when it comes to strikers. I remember the long threads and rather, and pleasingly, spiteful arguments about the eternal search for a "perfect striker" last summer. We managed to get one in tbf, so let's not give up all hope just yet. However, and I fully respect what JD has done for this club over the yrs, there must be a happy medium in between JD and the Ibrahimovics/Higuains/Agueros of this world.

The trouble is, whilst the top tier are after the Ibra/Higuains/Agueros, just about every other half decent club is after the happy medium.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Maybe we need to put money aside for the new stadium? It would make a lot of sense, plus the investment rumours remain just that at this stage.

I get putting money aside for the stadium but what's the point of having a state of the art stadium if the team playing there is plodding a long in mid table due to owners selling most of the clubs best assets and not replacing them.

We've gone from having a big squad with no strikers to a bear bones squad, still with no strikers.

 

[spud]

I'm concerned. I'm a fan who sees his club edging closer to the season critically short of strikers. But I'm also aware of the (relative) limitations that we work in. "We've had three/four/six/eight windows and we still haven't got our fucking striker"; "I'm burning my season ticket"; "Levy out". So how many strikers who would improve us have become available during those windows? How much did they cost? How much were/are their wages? Who bought them?

Look at reality. We don't (thank God) have a sugar daddy. That means that we have to live within our financial means or, ultimately, we won't have a football club to piss and moan about. "If we'd bought a striker, we would have had CL the last two years". Really? We finished fourth last season; isn't that a CL place? Actually, no: it gets you into the qualifying round - which you might lose. So you need to finish third. If you finish third, you might (that's might) pay for that striker. So it might be worth taking the financial risk IF he guarantees you third place. IF you can repeat it, you might be able to cope with the wage inflation that his signing delivers. Can you guarantee it? No. So do you take the risk? Possibly, but probably not.

What you do is work to increase the club's turnover and make it more attractive to top-class players. You build a world-class training facility and you increase the capacity of your stadium or build a new one. These things take time. In the meantime, you make every penny go as far as it can. You try to be shrewd in the market and buy players like Sandro cheaply. You don't pay over the odds for VdV and you might get lucky. You buy young players like Lennon, Bale and Walker and develop them. You try to grow your own. You don't pay 7m for a midget mexican striker in the hope that he's going to be okay. You don't pay Llorente 140k+ per week or Adebayor 170k per week because it's going to fuck you up.

Even Stevie Wonder can see that we need a striker. I'm pretty sure we're going to sign one, and before we play the bar codes. But if we don't, I understand why. There are a lot of variables involved (which I can't be arsed to list) and if we don't get one, I'm willing to bet it wasn't for the want of trying.

Levy out? Sure. Give me one one of the Glazers instead. Or Randy lerner, or the Dildo Brothers and Brady. Bollocks, let's go the whole hog: give me Peter fucking Ridsdale. He'll buy us a striker; and a league title; and a Champions League. Then he'll have us marching right behind Rangers into liquidation.

On second thought, give me some fans with some perspective. Some fans who don't throw their toys out of the pram every time we don't play like Barcelona in a pre-season friendly. Give me some fucking grown-ups.

 

[Spurger King]

I get putting money aside for the stadium but what's the point of having a state of the art stadium if the team playing there is plodding a long in mid table due to owners selling most of the clubs best assets and not replacing them.

We've gone from having a big squad with no strikers to a bear bones squad, still with no strikers.

True, and again I agree. Just trying to loook for possible reasons.

I understood the need to trim the squad, but I was hoping Bentley and Jenas, rather than Pienaar, Kranjcar and Corluka. I wouldn't say we're bare bones though as we've got some exciting young players, and a manager that is happy to give the youth a chance, however it all seems very precarious right now, and usually when it comes to Spurs the dice don't roll in our favour.

 

[jurgen]

It doesn't but to make things worse we've sold pretty much all our decent squad players and now have little to no cover in midfield/attack. You would think the club has major debt issues?

I guess if we are indeed unable to finance the players we need despite getting shot of a number of unwanted squad players for seemingly decent money, then we must reflect on whether we have also overspent and lived life vicariously, and whether we are quite the miracle of temperance we believe ourselves to be. As it stands I'm not sure I entirely agree with Misfit's earlier point - I think we have a good squad if you look in terms of some of the individuals we have within it - strength at CB and shitloads of midfielders of varying use, however a squad currently containing only Defoe and Kane as strikers is not a good squad for the general level of the league let alone where we've been aiming for (despite AVB talking of league titles, I can't buy into that just yet and as it stands neither is the club - which we realistically cannot afford to). I'm sure most people can appreciate our modus operandi even if we don't understand entirely how the workings of a company directly affect the player procurement policy, but plenty of other poorer clubs than us manage to get players in, no? It's all very well saying we're trying for a better class of player, which may well be true, but if we're repeatedly unable to seal the deal then something has to change. We must preface this by saying AVB has already got two potentially great new players within his squad, but as others have alluded to, if he is not able to get the squad balance he needs for the way he wants to play - can we blame him if everything goes tits up?

And I want to add that every window we of course have people with entirely twisted knickers but also those on the other side who call for us to 'wait and see', keep the faith, and deride anyone of an opposing view as some kind of menstrual beast - but we still await a 'permanent' solution to our striking problem, and we can clearly see our squad has been held together with aged, peeling French-Kiwi gaffer tape - so its not some kind of paranoic mentalism to be a little worried about the state of our squad - as a fan - with but a few days left... let's hope the manager gets the full backing he is going to need in order to have a decent chance of improving on Harry's results.

 

[jurgen]

I'm concerned. I'm a fan who sees his club edging closer to the season critically short of strikers. But I'm also aware of the (relative) limitations that we work in. "We've had three/four/six/eight windows and we still haven't got our fucking striker"; "I'm burning my season ticket"; "Levy out". So how many strikers who would improve us have become available during those windows? How much did they cost? How much were/are their wages? Who bought them?

Look at reality. We don't (thank God) have a sugar daddy. That means that we have to live within our financial means or, ultimately, we won't have a football club to piss and moan about. "If we'd bought a striker, we would have had CL the last two years". Really? We finished fourth last season; isn't that a CL place? Actually, no: it gets you into the qualifying round - which you might lose. So you need to finish third. If you finish third, you might (that's might) pay for that striker. So it might be worth taking the financial risk IF he guarantees you third place. IF you can repeat it, you might be able to cope with the wage inflation that his signing delivers. Can you guarantee it? No. So do you take the risk? Possibly, but probably not.

What you do is work to increase the club's turnover and make it more attractive to top-class players. You build a world-class training facility and you increase the capacity of your stadium or build a new one. These things take time. In the meantime, you make every penny go as far as it can. You try to be shrewd in the market and buy players like Sandro cheaply. You don't pay over the odds for VdV and you might get lucky. You buy young players like Lennon, Bale and Walker and develop them. You try to grow your own. You don't pay 7m for a midget mexican striker in the hope that he's going to be okay. You don't pay Llorente 140k+ per week or Adebayor 170k per week because it's going to fuck you up.

Even Stevie Wonder can see that we need a striker. I'm pretty sure we're going to sign one, and before we play the bar codes. But if we don't, I understand why. There are a lot of variables involved (which I can't be arsed to list) and if we don't get one, I'm willing to bet it wasn't for the want of trying.

Levy out? Sure. Give me one one of the Glazers instead. Or Randy lerner, or the Dildo Brothers and Brady. Bollocks, let's go the whole hog: give me Peter fucking Ridsdale. he'll buy us a striker; and a league title; and a Champions League. Then he'll have us marching right behind Rangers into liquidation.

On second thought, give me some fans with some perspective. Some fans who don't throw their toys out of the pram every time we don't play like Barcelona in a pre-season friendly. Give me some fucking grown-ups.

I think this is a good post, as our squad currently stands though, the question of who might improve us has changed somewhat. Last season we had a very productive Ade on loan - hopefully we can secure him again but its in the balance. At points last year then, of course it was a little more difficult to ask who would improve us - as we were - which is not as we are at this point in time. If we cannot get him or Leandro, I'm pretty sure there are many cheaper strikers who can still improve our forward line as a whole from Defoe+Kane and we'll need to move quickly to make sure we're not just stuck with those two because it won't be enough..

 

[Spurger King]

I'm concerned. I'm a fan who sees his club edging closer to the season critically short of strikers. But I'm also aware of the (relative) limitations that we work in. "We've had three/four/six/eight windows and we still haven't got our fucking striker"; "I'm burning my season ticket"; "Levy out". So how many strikers who would improve us have become available during those windows? How much did they cost? How much were/are their wages? Who bought them?

Look at reality. We don't (thank God) have a sugar daddy. That means that we have to live within our financial means or, ultimately, we won't have a football club to piss and moan about. "If we'd bought a striker, we would have had CL the last two years". Really? We finished fourth last season; isn't that a CL place? Actually, no: it gets you into the qualifying round - which you might lose. So you need to finish third. If you finish third, you might (that's might) pay for that striker. So it might be worth taking the financial risk IF he guarantees you third place. IF you can repeat it, you might be able to cope with the wage inflation that his signing delivers. Can you guarantee it? No. So do you take the risk? Possibly, but probably not.

What you do is work to increase the club's turnover and make it more attractive to top-class players. You build a world-class training facility and you increase the capacity of your stadium or build a new one. These things take time. In the meantime, you make every penny go as far as it can. You try to be shrewd in the market and buy players like Sandro cheaply. You don't pay over the odds for VdV and you might get lucky. You buy young players like Lennon, Bale and Walker and develop them. You try to grow your own. You don't pay 7m for a midget mexican striker in the hope that he's going to be okay. You don't pay Llorente 140k+ per week or Adebayor 170k per week because it's going to fuck you up.

Even Stevie Wonder can see that we need a striker. I'm pretty sure we're going to sign one, and before we play the bar codes. But if we don't, I understand why. There are a lot of variables involved (which I can't be arsed to list) and if we don't get one, I'm willing to bet it wasn't for the want of trying.

Levy out? Sure. Give me one one of the Glazers instead. Or Randy lerner, or the Dildo Brothers and Brady. Bollocks, let's go the whole hog: give me Peter fucking Ridsdale. he'll buy us a striker; and a league title; and a Champions League. Then he'll have us marching right behind Rangers into liquidation.

On second thought, give me some fans with some perspective. Some fans who don't throw their toys out of the pram every time we don't play like Barcelona in a pre-season friendly. Give me some fucking grown-ups.

Best post I've seen in weeks.

We're frustrated. AVB is probably frustrated. JJ's frustrated too. I'm sure Levy himself isn't exactly sat with his feet up laughing at our striker situation either.

There are so many sides to this that it's impossible for many to get a foothold in the situation right now, and for that reason I don't blame those who are feeling negative. It's not about who is the biggest Spurs fan - we all deal with situations like this in different ways.

I'm not going to lie - I'm anxious about how things are going to turn out. However things go from good to bad and back again so fast when it comes to transfers, and the fact is there are players that want to join Spurs just as much as we want them to sign. This could still turn out to be a fantastic window. Sig and Vertonghen are already a big step in that direction.

 

[JKendall13]

I'm concerned. I'm a fan who sees his club edging closer to the season critically short of strikers. But I'm also aware of the (relative) limitations that we work in. "We've had three/four/six/eight windows and we still haven't got our fucking striker"; "I'm burning my season ticket"; "Levy out". So how many strikers who would improve us have become available during those windows? How much did they cost? How much were/are their wages? Who bought them?

Look at reality. We don't (thank God) have a sugar daddy. That means that we have to live within our financial means or, ultimately, we won't have a football club to piss and moan about. "If we'd bought a striker, we would have had CL the last two years". Really? We finished fourth last season; isn't that a CL place? Actually, no: it gets you into the qualifying round - which you might lose. So you need to finish third. If you finish third, you might (that's might) pay for that striker. So it might be worth taking the financial risk IF he guarantees you third place. IF you can repeat it, you might be able to cope with the wage inflation that his signing delivers. Can you guarantee it? No. So do you take the risk? Possibly, but probably not.

What you do is work to increase the club's turnover and make it more attractive to top-class players. You build a world-class training facility and you increase the capacity of your stadium or build a new one. These things take time. In the meantime, you make every penny go as far as it can. You try to be shrewd in the market and buy players like Sandro cheaply. You don't pay over the odds for VdV and you might get lucky. You buy young players like Lennon, Bale and Walker and develop them. You try to grow your own. You don't pay 7m for a midget mexican striker in the hope that he's going to be okay. You don't pay Llorente 140k+ per week or Adebayor 170k per week because it's going to fuck you up.

Even Stevie Wonder can see that we need a striker. I'm pretty sure we're going to sign one, and before we play the bar codes. But if we don't, I understand why. There are a lot of variables involved (which I can't be arsed to list) and if we don't get one, I'm willing to bet it wasn't for the want of trying.

Levy out? Sure. Give me one one of the Glazers instead. Or Randy lerner, or the Dildo Brothers and Brady. Bollocks, let's go the whole hog: give me Peter fucking Ridsdale. he'll buy us a striker; and a league title; and a Champions League. Then he'll have us marching right behind Rangers into liquidation.

On second thought, give me some fans with some perspective. Some fans who don't throw their toys out of the pram every time we don't play like Barcelona in a pre-season friendly. Give me some fucking grown-ups.

Take a bow.

 

[spud]

There are so many sides to this that it's impossible for many to get a foothold in the situation right now, and for that reason I don't blame those who are feeling negative. It's not about who is the biggest Spurs fan - we all deal with situations like this in different ways.

Feeling frustrated or concerned about our striker situation is understandable. But what has changed in the last 24 hours to change this site from borderline optimistic to 'pass the arsenic'? One pre-season game when several players are unavailable and a few less-than-optimistic tweets from JJ (who possibly fucked up at work and got bollocked by Levy). It seems as though a large proportion of our fans are hormonal ADD kids with the memory retention of a goldfish.

 

[spud]

.......as our squad currently stands though, the question of who might improve us has changed somewhat. ......If we cannot get [Ade] or Leandro, I'm pretty sure there are many cheaper strikers who can still improve our forward line as a whole from Defoe+Kane and we'll need to move quickly to make sure we're not just stuck with those two because it won't be enough..

You're probably right. Can you imagine the reaction if we buy Fletcher or Holt, or some relative unknown? The mantra would be the same: we want our marquee striker - whatever the cost - and we want him NOW.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

Even Stevie Wonder can see that we need a striker. I'm pretty sure we're going to sign one, and before we play the bar codes. But if we don't, I understand why. There are a lot of variables involved (which I can't be arsed to list) and if we don't get one, I'm willing to bet it wasn't for the want of trying.

 

[Franchise60]

That's a thoughtful post by Spud. Problem is I've read that post for what now, 7 windows?

 

[spud]

That's a thoughtful post by Spud. Problem is I've read that post for what now, 7 windows?

The passage of time hasn't made rectifying the problem easier. In fact, it's become more difficult to sign the calibre of player that we need. Seven windows ago we had Chelski inflating the market and players' wages. Now we also have Citeh at home and PSG abroad. We have a bouyant economy in Brazil making it much more difficult to sign players from there, and we have a deflated one in Britain making it more difficult to afford them.

 

[Spurger King]

Feeling frustrated or concerned about our striker situation is understandable. But what has changed in the last 24 hours to change this site from borderline optimistic to 'pass the arsenic'? One pre-season game when several players are unavailable and a few less-than-optimistic tweets from JJ (who possibly fucked up at work and got bollocked by Levy). It seems as though a large proportion of our fans are hormonal ADD kids with the memory retention of a goldfish.

I mentioned in a previous post that each pre-season game represents a reminder of our current shortcomings, so I can understand why the game, coupled with JJ's comments, has had the reaction it did.

I had a brief twitter conversation with JJ earlier, and whilst I don't really like copying and pasting conversations onto here (because like plenty of other people I respect his opinion as a fan as well, and it's not always about harvesting info), I'd say that he's just feeling frustrated like the rest of us. He made the point that we're not a Chelsea or a City so we need to accept that, and of course he's right.

I think a lot of fans assume JJ has access to every stage of our transfer dealings, so when he's anxious it sparks a wave. The fact is we're not where any of us (Levy included, I'd imagine) would like to be right now in terms of deals, however I'm 100% certain we will be going flat out to sort things out as soon as possible. Unfortunately if that 'soon as' is dictated by other clubs there's only so much we can do.

I know there's a lot of extreme reactions on here, but I always try to remember that it's a sign of passion. Many of them will be the same fans that sing our songs with all their heart, and communicate to the players exactly what this club means to us all. If ever there was a time for fans to be worried it's now, but it's also a time to be excited as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Franchise60]

The passage of time hasn't made rectifying the problem easier. In fact, it's become more difficult to sign the calibre of player that we need. Seven windows ago we had Chelski inflating the market and players' wages. Now we also have Citeh at home and PSG abroad. We have a bouyant economy in Brazil making it much more difficult to sign players from there, and we have a deflated one in Britain making it more difficult to afford them.

Yeah but the thing is we don't just need a top class striker. We need 2 strikers. Is PSG stopping us from getting a 2nd choice striker?

It isn't just about improving our strikeforce, it's about having strikers in the club. When it was Crouch/Defoe/Pav we needed to upgrade our strikers. Now we have one of those guys and he can't play up top on his own. We have no options and three matches coming up.

We sold Crouch last summer for good money and replaced him with a loan player. We sold Pav in January and replaced him with a player on a 6 month free. I didn't love either of those players but it is very poor that we are heading into the 2nd weekend of August without replacing either.

 

[Toela65]

I think when AVB came in, then we signed Gylfi straight away, we all thought "woah, maybe we will get our business done and then just knuckle down". Unfortunately it hasn't gone that way and I kinda feel sorry for Harry and the criticism he received at times when we left it so late. It is obviously just the way we operate, the Modric saga doesn't look anywhere near done, Madrid are obviously trying to squeeze us and it won't work.

How long did Alonso have left when they paid £30m for him? I mean you'd think they would learn. Modric is a bit younger, on a longer contract and has been part of a fairly successful team who don't need the money. Plus the market has changed in those 3 years. He will be just as important as Alonso has been for them (I imagine he will replace him eventually). Oh well, I guess we will all just have to try and excite ourselves for Newcastle away with Defoe up top, don't like it but as others have said, as long as we have our targets in by September 1st then I will be content. We SHOULD have enough in our squad to see us through, at the moment I'd take a draw at Newcastle

September 1st and we are still in same position? THEN we should all be worried, only then though.

Alonso went for £35m all in all and it was pretty late in the window. I don't think Modric will be as important to Madrid as Alonso currently but money in the future.

With the players Madrid of got at their disposal, I don't know why they are so desperate for Modric for such a high price. Unless, because of the centre mids they have, thats why they won't raise their offer?

Is it not just that you have spent £15m+ on Vertonghen and Siggy and now you need to get a few out the door to bring in a good enough striker as they don't come cheap.

Where does your transfer money come from? Is it what the club makes in profit plus player sales? Self sufficient? If so its the same for LFC and we need to sell some players now to raise all the money we need for our remaining targets as our owners are adamant we must live within our means and not have them putting any of their own money in at all unlike last Summer.

Maybe because the Modric deal has stalled, thats stopping your deals going through due to cash flow?

I apologise if I have get this wrong, I'm just assuming as you don't have a sugar daddy either, your owners may take the same approach as FSG in regards to financing transfers and the answer may just be as simple as cashflow until Modric leaves.

Hope it gets better for you soon. I'm absolutely certain you will buy at least one top notch striker before the end of the window and probably other players too, maybe even 2 strikers.

Its not Ldevy's fault either. He is excellent at his job and I and many other Pool fans would love to have someone like him running our club instead of Ian Ayre.

 

[mw828]

That's all well and good, but the point has clearly been made that we haven't spent the money we have made from player sales already. Two strikers sold for what, 20m or so and none in. We added two good players to the squad, but saw Kranjcar, Corluka, and Pienaar all leave for about 15m and the wages of the stopgap Saha and Nelsen come off the books. Of course we have to be self sufficient and fiscally responsible, that is the Tottenham way, but we should be reinvesting most of the money we take in from transfers and we simply aren't doing it at all. And for what, the pipe dream of buying a striker worth 35m+ for less than he is really worth and getting him to sign for wages under 120k pw?

 

[DiamondLites]

It's like groundhog day every transfer window...

 

[DiamondLites]

It's like groundhog day every transfer window...

 

[Toela65]

I think loaning Caulker to Liverpool for the season could be a very sensible thing to do - get them to develop him and give him an extra year experience, rather than having him sat around here understudying Verts.

We already have Real and Barca who would like us to take their players who aren't quite ready yet and have Rodgers develop them in his system. I don't think we need to do it for Spurs too.