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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread -The SOS EDITION! 1st July 2014

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HappySpur

You Can't Unfry Things Jerri
Jan 7, 2012
7,666
19,601
Couldn't agree more that it makes financial sense, especially with FFP. I'm just basing my statement on history. It's time to come join the dark side and do some transfers the Yanks way :)

The Yanks are like any other country.....they do some things right and some things wrong. But this is one where they do it right, but it's right for a reason. And that's because General Managers in US Sports don't put a value on players in a trade. They put an importance. I will give you Player X for Players Y and Zed. Y and Zed are nowhere near the worth of X, but they fit my needs better, whether said needs are future ability, financial necessities or current tactical shortages.

That is not something football is incapable of to its own detriment. And that's why it doesn't work. Because finding two 8 million pound players who each side wants is not easy. Once somebody realizes that they can trick the market using it, thus gaining an advantage, this will become common.
 

NHAndy

Active Member
Aug 2, 2010
166
237
Player trades won't ever catch on in football. Sigurdsson for Davies happens to be one that conceivably makes sense but what if the buying team has no one attractive to the seller. Who could have Hull have offered in trade for Livermore, for example?

Trades never happen in the NFL and more often than not, in basketball and hockey, they're a mechanism to adjust salary load for salary cap purposes. In baseball they happen but it can be painful finding a player in your club that the other tem wants and is a comparable trade.
 

Drexl

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2013
4,202
6,547
Player trades won't ever catch on in football. Sigurdsson for Davies happens to be one that conceivably makes sense but what if the buying team has no one attractive to the seller. Who could have Hull have offered in trade for Livermore, for example?

Trades never happen in the NFL and more often than not, in basketball and hockey, they're a mechanism to adjust salary load for salary cap purposes. In baseball they happen but it can be painful finding a player in your club that the other tem wants and is a comparable trade.

I would have taken Curtis Davies in a heartbeat, the answer to our CB problems
 

spacessships

Incredibly Unknown Member
Jan 31, 2013
437
1,703
Trades never happen in the NFL and more often than not, in basketball and hockey, they're a mechanism to adjust salary load for salary cap purposes. In baseball they happen but it can be painful finding a player in your club that the other tem wants and is a comparable trade.

Yup. Many (if not most) trades in the NBA are not 1-for-1 with only players involved. They are as you say, to free up salary cap and/or often include draft picks--neither of which are a part of football outside of the MLS. And they're often 3-way trades, to make matters even more complicated.
 

Hoopspur

You have insufficient privileges to reply here!
Jun 28, 2012
6,332
9,703
Just an observation or question and not a comment. Why is it that some people put a funny icon for ITK in the RO section?
 

SpursDave88

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,193
5,831
Levy indicated in his statement that we would be targeting quality signings, why would we even bother signing new players if they weren't at least an upgrade on the players we end up moving on.

Erm… we have done exactly this ever since we qualified for the CL under Harry, which is why we are where we are. We need top class players to improve us and without CL football or the capacity to pay exorbitant wages we cannot get them. I guess someone likes my post because they agree with the content.
 

Spurs 1961

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
6,665
8,739
Player trades won't ever catch on in football. Sigurdsson for Davies happens to be one that conceivably makes sense but what if the buying team has no one attractive to the seller. Who could have Hull have offered in trade for Livermore, for example?

Trades never happen in the NFL and more often than not, in basketball and hockey, they're a mechanism to adjust salary load for salary cap purposes. In baseball they happen but it can be painful finding a player in your club that the other tem wants and is a comparable trade.
Also it seems to me that the trade system gices the players no say in where they go; is this correct? If so it could never work under EU laws
 

Dirty Ewok

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2012
8,970
19,391
10 mill for Davies? Fuck. That. Noise.

Just go in for Rodriguez at 18-20 mill. Would be a much, much better buy, IMO. I'd say 6 is a fair price for Davies. 8 is pushing it. 10 is outrageous.

I understand what you are saying but following the Shaw deal the market price for all these guys is going to be screwed....Swansea are obviously going to ask for as much as they can and point to Shaw as the market indicator, if they didn't do that they would get fleeced. Levy would do the exact same thing. I think Swansea come back to the table, bigger question will be if Swansea will be able to temp LFC to enter the bidding (LFC has been rumoured to have had interest in Davies before and Sevilla started moving the posts on Morneo and want to pull people in to create a bidding war so LFC are looking at other options) which will push the price up on both clubs which is what Swansea (small money club) really want.

Rodriguez will get expensive and fast, the teams looking at him all have money and most are in the CL. Wolfsburg may be poorly run in the front office (they always have issues) but they have more money than they know what to do with (they were able to sign Luis Gustavo to a fairly lucrative contract without even blinking last summer) and really have no desire or need (and i haven't seen mention of a release clause) to sell Rodriguez . They can hold out and drive up the price as much as anyone else. Would be the perfect player for us but i get the feeling that £25m may be the smallest amount we see him move for.
 

Hoddtastic72

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2011
1,338
1,846
Erm… we have done exactly this ever since we qualified for the CL under Harry, which is why we are where we are. We need top class players to improve us and without CL football or the capacity to pay exorbitant wages we cannot get them. I guess someone likes my post because they agree with the content.
So because we haven't signed 'top class players' since we qualified for the CL this means we won't sign any this transfer window? Not really sure thats the case. Especially since we qualified for CL we've signed VDV, Adebayor, Erickson, Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho and a other exciting prospects. While you might dispute some of these being 'top class' they were each cause for most on this forum to get excited about in past transfer windows...and have every chance of reaffirming their class this year.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,845
34,027
I understand what you are saying but following the Shaw deal the market price for all these guys is going to be screwed....Swansea are obviously going to ask for as much as they can and point to Shaw as the market indicator, if they didn't do that they would get fleeced. Levy would do the exact same thing. I think Swansea come back to the table, bigger question will be if Swansea will be able to temp LFC to enter the bidding (LFC has been rumoured to have had interest in Davies before and Sevilla started moving the posts on Morneo and want to pull people in to create a bidding war so LFC are looking at other options) which will push the price up on both clubs which is what Swansea (small money club) really want.

Rodriguez will get expensive and fast, the teams looking at him all have money and most are in the CL. Wolfsburg may be poorly run in the front office (they always have issues) but they have more money than they know what to do with (they were able to sign Luis Gustavo to a fairly lucrative contract without even blinking last summer) and really have no desire or need (and i haven't seen mention of a release clause) to sell Rodriguez . They can hold out and drive up the price as much as anyone else. Would be the perfect player for us but i get the feeling that £25m may be the smallest amount we see him move for.
Who is looking at Rodriguez? The only teams linked are Us, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea & Fiorentina. The chairman/president (whatever his title is) or Wolfsburg has already said the will accept 25m euros (just under 20m pounds), so he will go for less than that with negotiations (I would guess around 18m).
 

Syn_13

Fly On, Little Wing
Jul 17, 2008
14,851
20,659
I understand what you are saying but following the Shaw deal the market price for all these guys is going to be screwed....Swansea are obviously going to ask for as much as they can and point to Shaw as the market indicator, if they didn't do that they would get fleeced. Levy would do the exact same thing. I think Swansea come back to the table, bigger question will be if Swansea will be able to temp LFC to enter the bidding (LFC has been rumoured to have had interest in Davies before and Sevilla started moving the posts on Morneo and want to pull people in to create a bidding war so LFC are looking at other options) which will push the price up on both clubs which is what Swansea (small money club) really want.

Rodriguez will get expensive and fast, the teams looking at him all have money and most are in the CL. Wolfsburg may be poorly run in the front office (they always have issues) but they have more money than they know what to do with (they were able to sign Luis Gustavo to a fairly lucrative contract without even blinking last summer) and really have no desire or need (and i haven't seen mention of a release clause) to sell Rodriguez . They can hold out and drive up the price as much as anyone else. Would be the perfect player for us but i get the feeling that £25m may be the smallest amount we see him move for.

Totally agree with that post, especially the first about about Swansea using the Shaw sale as a "benchmark" for Davies' price. He's not at Shaw's level but they will use the young, first team left back status as an excuse. It's frustrating and shows how overpriced domestic players are. This is why we end up forced to buy overseas, and then shock jockeys like Durham, and rags like The Mail and The Sun drag out the likes of Redknapp and Venables to use it as a rod to beat us with because we won't support domestic players. Catch 22.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
Who is looking at Rodriguez? The only teams linked are Us, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea & Fiorentina. The chairman/president (whatever his title is) or Wolfsburg has already said the will accept 25m euros (just under 20m pounds), so he will go for less than that with negotiations (I would guess around 18m).

Not if there are five clubs slugging it out for him, he won't, and we can't compete with three of them, either for transfer fees or wages—not to mention the lure of CL.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,845
34,027
Not if there are five clubs slugging it out for him, he won't, and we can't compete with three of them, either for transfer fees or wages—not to mention the lure of CL.
IF we were in for him, the likely hood is that it would just be between us and Fiorentina. Man Utd now have Shaw, Chelsea are getting Felipe Luis and Liverpool have a few other LB's that they are going for ahead of him. Also, Fiorentina won't go over 15m Euro's.
 
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