The Defence Thread

[bubble07]

We are one quality centreback and an defensive midfielder away to become genuine contenders.

Chuck 70m at inter and get skrirnier and brozovic. Job done

 

[JCRD]

Go for Upamecano and give them a few quid plus Sanchez or Toby

 

[ajspurs]

Remember Liverpool just over 2 seasons ago, great going forward but a dodgy defence always leaking goals.

That's where I see us right now and only a few signings can make a massive difference.

I agree. It's nice to be in that position again where a couple of signings could really see us be where we need to be as before the window it seemed like there was a lot more work that needed to be done.

It seems almost greedy to demand more but hopefully this is one time where we can actually push to get those last pieces to the jigsaw as previously we didn't take the step. My main concern is the bloated squad at the moment though in regards to potential new recruits.

 

[spids]

Jose needs to consider three things:

1. The new handball rule
2. VAR
3. Our lack of top tier CBs.

... and decide if he really wants to continue to play counter attacking football where we defend by sitting deep on the edge of our area.

Yes, he is right when he says we have only conceded one goal from open play this season (Ings away at Southampton). The fact is we concede from penalties and/or free kicks in wide areas every game. And that is because we spend too much time deliberately dropping deep and defending our penalty area. I personally nearly have a heart attack every time a team gets a set piece in a position where they can cross into the box as we have too many liabilities defensively. Aurier is rash. Dier has lapses of concentration. Sissoko does not compete aerially (or even watch the flight of ball). Winks is a dwarf. Lloris does not command his box. I totally get why Mourinho favours taller players, and he will argue that with Rodon, Dier, and Doherty on the pitch we would have been comfortable. I am not so sure.

 

[cliff jones]

Jose needs to consider three things:

1. The new handball rule
2. VAR
3. Our lack of top tier CBs.

... and decide if he really wants to continue to play counter attacking football where we defend by sitting deep on the edge of our area.

Yes, he is right when he says we have only conceded one goal from open play this season (Ings away at Southampton). The fact is we concede from penalties and/or free kicks in wide areas every game. And that is because we spend too much time deliberately dropping deep and defending our penalty area. I personally nearly have a heart attack every time a team gets a set piece in a position where they can cross into the box as we have too many liabilities defensively. Aurier is rash. Dier has lapses of concentration. Sissoko does not compete aerially (or even watch the flight of ball). Winks is a dwarf. Lloris does not command his box. I totally get why Mourinho favours taller players, and he will argue that with Rodon, Dier, and Doherty on the pitch we would have been comfortable. I am not so sure.

great post mate, mainly because you have built on mine from earlier?

As soon as they got one, I tried to stay calm but just like at their hole in Jose’s first game I just knew they would get another and I’d end up being totally fking hyper

the game finished at nearly 2am where I am so it totally ruined my kip

 

[John48]

Has to be said once Son & N'Dombele went off we started making individual mistakes defensively & it was mainly the players that came on that were at fault. Moura didn't track back & stop the cross as he should have done for their 2nd & Winks was half hearted in his clearance & set up the ball to be lashed in for the 3rd.

 

[SUIYHA]

So far this season I'm struggling to see any top quality, solid defences. Who do you think the best two or three defences in the league are?

Aston Villa have been tight at the back, but I can't see that lasting long. Liverpool have conceded 13 in 5 games (most before VVD got crocked!), United 12, Chelsea 9, Leicester 8, Man City 7, Arsenal 6...and we've only conceded 6 goals that weren't ridiculous decisions - suggesting our defence is better (or less bad) than that all of five teams who finished above us last season, and equal to Arsenal's.

Chelsea have conceded 3 goals twice in five games so far, Arsenal once, Leicester once. Our other three big rivals for top 4 have all conceded 5-7 goals in a single match. Based on that, I don't think a 10-minute blip is enough for us to start panicking over...only if it becomes a regular occurrence this season. Everything that happened last year was during an awful spell where morale was in their boots and then we were going through a transition period with a new manager.

It's true that others are also looking poor, but that's all the more reason we need to be doing what we can to make sure we get solid, because if we can sort this out then we'll have a genuine shot at challenging for top honours whilst they are weaker than usual. We can't affect what other teams do, only ourselves, and what I do know is that our defending since at least the start of last season has not been good enough. What is most frustrating is that it seems a lot of the errors are actively costing us points - nobody complained about Sanchez giving away at penalty at Old Trafford because we won 6-1, but since the start of last season it seems so much has been thrown away from sloppy mistakes late on in games. Some examples:

• West Ham and Newcastle this season - poor refereeing decisions or not we were seconds away from winning both - instead, neither.
• Man Utd at home last season - winning with 10 mins to go, gave away a penalty and luckily got a second overturned through VAR
• Palace away - let in a second half equaliser and had to rely on Chelsea beating Wolves to get Europe
• Arsenal away - 2-0 up and cruising, threw it away
• Wolves at home - winning at half time, ended up losing 3-2
• Everton away - conceded a 97th minute equaliser
• Sheffield Utd at home - another late equaliser
• Norwich in the cup - let in a late equaliser to take the game to ET and pens which we lost
• Southampton in the cup - late equaliser, had to play a replay
• Leicester away - Ok there was the Son VAR nonsense but we were still winning with 20 mins to go and ended up losing
• Liverpool away - Tough game I know, but another that we lost when winning at half time

West Ham and Bournemouth last season both brought 3-0 leads back to 3-2 and Bournemouth almost nicked it in the last second before Vertonghen bailed us out with that wonder tackle.

It's not just the number of goals (which was far higher last season than it was in previous years), it's the fact that they are coming at crucial moments that are costing us games. And there is an alarming pattern above that needs to be rectified ASAP.

 

[Yantino]

The centre back position needs some new blood but i don't think the defensive situation is as bad as everyone is making out. Our full backs look strong to me and the issue has always been that the backup/squad full backs became first choice. As long as Doherty and Reguilon remain as the main starting 11 full backs and Aurier/Davies are used to rest the other two then i think these four players are good enough.

At CB we have more issues.

Toby - Still a good defender but has lost a yard.
Sanchez - Won't last much longer under Jose IMO. He has no composure.
Dier - Making individual mistakes, but everything in between that has looked good.
Tanganga - Loads of potential.
Rodon - Haven't seen him play yet but the reports are promising.

The worst scenario for me is when Sanchez and Aurier both play together. I just do not rate that right-sided combination at all.

There is still a need to add both another CB and also another CM.

 

[mumfordspur]

Our defence is not the best, but we have also had some rotten luck this season and I do think there is a good chance we can get better.

Taking all things into account, in the Prem we have only conceded two goals from open play - one of which was a wonder strike. We have given away three pens - two of which were thanks to the new handball rule and the other goals were from set pieces and one own goal.

Besides the Everton game and a good ball over the top for Ings, I don't think our defence has been torn apart of truly breached during open play. Our weakness right now seems to be long balls and defending set pieces, which I would argue are easier to improve at. I have no doubt that we will be working on these in training this month.

Even the most pessimistic Spurs fans will surely see that we have had such bad luck at home this season too. No complaints about the Everton game, but during Newcastle/West Ham a lot of things went against us.

We should have been more clinical in the first 45 against Newcastle. We weren't and they responded by bringing on Andy Carrol, pumping the ball forward and then screaming handball at every opportunity - they got it and a dodgy call turned three points into one. That game also led to the officials 'softening' the handball rule.

Besides one Fornals chance in the second half, West Ham didn't really create anything amazing against us. They deserve a lot of credit to draw, but in reality they scored from a free kick, an own goal and a wonder strike. We also hit the post and had a rusty Bale shoot inches wide of the goal.

I don't think our defence is anywhere near bad as it feels it is. Sanchez had poor moments, but he also completely nullified Antonio/Bowen who're West Ham's best players. He put the ball in his own net, but he was put in that position because Lucas/Reguilon were suckered in by a reverse pass.

You could also argue that we were without our first choice CB in Dier, and Rodon who is 6ft4 has clearly been signed for a reason. All the talk of 'same old Spurs' or 'Spursy' makes it feel worse than it is.

Mourinho tells them something in the Amazon doc about when a free kick or cross comes in they shit themselves.
Here we are mid Oct and they still cannot defend either of them.
So what's gone wrong.

 

[Shadydan]

Mourinho tells them something in the Amazon doc about when a free kick or cross comes in they shit themselves.
Here we are mid Oct and they still cannot defend either of them.
So what's gone wrong.

Probably the reason why Dier ran to the toilet.

 

[mumfordspur]

It's true that others are also looking poor, but that's all the more reason we need to be doing what we can to make sure we get solid, because if we can sort this out then we'll have a genuine shot at challenging for top honours whilst they are weaker than usual. We can't affect what other teams do, only ourselves, and what I do know is that our defending since at least the start of last season has not been good enough. What is most frustrating is that it seems a lot of the errors are actively costing us points - nobody complained about Sanchez giving away at penalty at Old Trafford because we won 6-1, but since the start of last season it seems so much has been thrown away from sloppy mistakes late on in games. Some examples:

• West Ham and Newcastle this season - poor refereeing decisions or not we were seconds away from winning both - instead, neither.
• Man Utd at home last season - winning with 10 mins to go, gave away a penalty and luckily got a second overturned through VAR
• Palace away - let in a second half equaliser and had to rely on Chelsea beating Wolves to get Europe
• Arsenal away - 2-0 up and cruising, threw it away
• Wolves at home - winning at half time, ended up losing 3-2
• Everton away - conceded a 97th minute equaliser
• Sheffield Utd at home - another late equaliser
• Norwich in the cup - let in a late equaliser to take the game to ET and pens which we lost
• Southampton in the cup - late equaliser, had to play a replay
• Leicester away - Ok there was the Son VAR nonsense but we were still winning with 20 mins to go and ended up losing
• Liverpool away - Tough game I know, but another that we lost when winning at half time

West Ham and Bournemouth last season both brought 3-0 leads back to 3-2 and Bournemouth almost nicked it in the last second before Vertonghen bailed us out with that wonder tackle.

It's not just the number of goals (which was far higher last season than it was in previous years), it's the fact that they are coming at crucial moments that are costing us games. And there is an alarming pattern above that needs to be rectified ASAP.

I thought the crucial times were either side of h/t.
At 81 mins if you give 1 away that is disappointing but acceptable.
KO at 82mins you have 8 mins + injury (say 12) to defend 2 goals.
Absolutely pathetic.
Teams will now be either whipping in crosses or earning free kicks in the knowledge our lot will feck it up.

 

[McArchibald]

Needless fouls and careless defending: Free kicks are the root of Spurs’ woes

Jose Mourinho's defence have struggled from set pieces from the first game of the season. Sunday's capitulation was no different

theathletic.com

Excellent piece in the Athletic on our defensive woes. Uncertainty, ill discipline and carelessness all contribute to the constant leaking of crucial goals. I hope Ledley King can give these lads some tips and tricks, because this dodgy defending is going to cost us dearly...

 

[Neon_Knight_]

So much for Villa's defensive record

Has any team managed to avoid conceding 3+ goals in a single league game this season?

We need to improve at defending set pieces, but when it comes to defending in open play we seem to be the best in the league at the moment.

 

[taidgh]

Needless fouls and careless defending: Free kicks are the root of Spurs’ woes

Jose Mourinho's defence have struggled from set pieces from the first game of the season. Sunday's capitulation was no different

theathletic.com

Excellent piece in the Athletic on our defensive woes. Uncertainty, ill discipline and carelessness all contribute to the constant leaking of crucial goals. I hope Ledley King can give these lads some tips and tricks, because this dodgy defending is going to cost us dearly...

Any chance of a copy/paste? No sub here.

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

I think the budget cut being mooted is probably the wrong decision, with Russia becoming more and more aggressive and China spending increasing...oh... nevermind

 

[Vincent30]

What we need to be a title challenging team is two very very good players, one a CB and one a CM (who is more defensive minded).

As controversial as it sounds. For me, Sanchez, Winks, Sissoko, Dele, Sess, Foyth, Serge, Lucas are really playing for their future next season. Even Dier to a degree, but given this is really his first proper season at CB and Jose really likes him, i won't include him.

If we essentially sold the above players and went all in on Upamecano / Skriniar (CB) and Camavinga (CM) or similar level of players (looking at 100m spend). We would be in a great position.

CBs: Skriniar, Dier, Rodon, Toby, Tanganga, Davies. Ok Rodon hasn't played but clearly adds much needs height and aerial presence to this list.
CMs: PEH, Skipp as our DM Camavinga as a huge improvement on Sissioko (box to box), Lo Celso and Ndombele.

With the above pool of talent and our full back and attacking options, we would really be challenging and would easily make in excess of 100m selling all those players that aren't really adding that much to our team. Give or take 1 or 2.

I think this window just gone, has easily been the best i've seen. The fact we really only need two positions sorted in the next window is mind blowing, when you consider how unblanaced and off our squad was at the end of last season. Exciting times and we definitely have a cup in us this year.

 

[SUIYHA]

This thread was created when we were on a run of ten successive games without a clean sheet. Am now bumping it as we've gotten six from the last nine which has almost doubled our tally from the entire Mourinho era - and conceded just three goals in those nine games (the same as the final 10 minutes against West Ham alone). At first I was able to put this down quite simply to us playing the likes of West Brom, Burnley, LASK and Ludogorets, but having had successive shutouts in the league when facing Man City and Chelsea - I think we have to acknowledge that we've definitely improved in this area.

I'll caveat this by saying I think we've had a lot more luck in these games (no dodgy VAR handballs has been a help, as has some poor play from Abraham and Giroud failing to capitalise on some sloppy mistakes today), however the facts don't lie. Fewest goals conceded in the league this season. Lloris only one save of note to make today which was a long shot from distance. The City game was a classic Mourinho performance - highly organised defence and quick, effective counter-attacking.

How are people feeling about our defence now? I'll be honest - I still think we really could do with signing another CB as I don't trust Dier long term, but at the risk of jinxing it before the NLD, the situation appears to be improving for now...

 

[Cochise]

We seem to be very good at restricting our opponents to low quality chances. I feel that with Hojbjerg and Sissoko in the middle we are really looking after that space in front of the back two which is in turn making the CB's lives a lot easier.

There is also the element of Jose finding a trusted back four. Reguilon has his trust as does Dier and Alderweireld. I think we can now add Aurier to that list too. The fact that Rodon seems to have overtaken Sanchez suggests that the latter is not on the list. From looking through Jose's time with other clubs he does seem to nail down a starting back four and only supplement it with a few others that rotate in but rarely start. Were it not for the Europa league, I think that might be the case this year too.

 

[bubble07]

I'd like a left footed centre back but apart from that we are defending well

 

[beats1]

I dont think I ever remember a spurs team been good at defending well over 90mins