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The Diamond

The diamond- turd or gem?


  • Total voters
    203

van_Pommel

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2004
3,061
971
It served a purpose last year but I think he needs to move on now. I'd be keen to see us go back the 3421 formation that worked well for us a couple of seasons ago. Having Dier at RCB might help with our RB deficiencies.
 

Haddock

Captain
Oct 16, 2017
2,025
6,357
I'd say that the gist of this is that Pochettino primarily focuses on the players he would like to have on the pitch rather than which players actually suits the system / play well together.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
It’s just another reason why he has to go. Even Hoddle last night was saying the formation is all wrong, our CM are being asked to cover too much ground, leaving too much space and they will be shattered after 30 minutes...

And look what happened. If Hoddle can see that why on earth can’t Poch? He’s honestly lost the plot.

I said in the summer that Poch’s hardon for playing Winks as a base in the diamond will be his undoing. I’m convinced he plays this formation to shoehorn Winks into the side.

We need to play an energetic DM behind NDombele to properly screen the defence. Winks isn’t the answer. We don’t need a keep it simple 2019 Scott Parker in there.

The perfect example of what we need would be a Kante. Obviously that’s impossible but we need someone who compliments NDombele, who IS a talent to build your team around. Not Winks.

Before anyone thinks I’m slagging Winks. I’m keen to see how a tactically astute manager develops and uses Winks...but not Poch.
 

Buggsy61

Washed Up Member
Aug 31, 2012
5,551
8,921
Lets just go back to what worked in the past where everyone knew their job, and where they should be. The open passage in front of the defence has been flapping like a barn door in a force 9 for a while, and was ruthlessly exposed last night.
A pasting like that had been coming for a while.
Now is time for Poch to show what he is made of, go back to basics and steady the ship, even if he has to swallow some pride - a real man will do that.
Start by putting Dier in front of the back four where he can also act as an extra CB at set pieces etc. We will always score at the other end, but need to shore up the back, or this season is going to get away from us soon.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
It’s just another reason why he has to go. Even Hoddle last night was saying the formation is all wrong, our CM are being asked to cover too much ground, leaving too much space and they will be shattered after 30 minutes...

And look what happened. If Hoddle can see that why on earth can’t Poch? He’s honestly lost the plot.

I said in the summer that Poch’s hardon for playing Winks as a base in the diamond will be his undoing. I’m convinced he plays this formation to shoehorn Winks into the side.

We need to play an energetic DM behind NDombele to properly screen the defence. Winks isn’t the answer. We don’t need a keep it simple 2019 Scott Parker in there.

The perfect example of what we need would be a Kante. Obviously that’s impossible but we need someone who compliments NDombele, who IS a talent to build your team around. Not Winks.

Before anyone thinks I’m slagging Winks. I’m keen to see how a tactically astute manager develops and uses Winks...but not Poch.
Spot on! In so many ways.
 

Jemster

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2018
170
470
There's typically 2 ways of setting up a team. You either form a structure based on the squad you have available, or you bring in players for a particular formation you want to play. The top coaches at moneybags clubs often opt for the latter, but given Spurs' recent transfer strategy Poch's options are limited to the former. The problem, however, is that we have an imbalanced squad with too many players that are even in similar positions or perform similar types of roles which restrict variations. This is further compounded by the desire to play certain players which is compromising formation to the diamond. The tough choice in my view is the trio being used in midfield with Winks being the pivot. I think we need better coverage across the middle, otherwise the narrow diamond leaves us exposed to teams parking the bus and to teams with natural width, like last night....
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,650
8,650
The diamond actually worked in the first half.
We should have scored at least 3or 4.
We just don't have the personnel to use the diamond for 90 minutes.
Dier must have seriously pissed off Poch.
I personally think Foyth would be the perfect player for the defensive part of the diamond.
But we need a new right and left back.
Hopefully sess will be that left back.
Winks can't play the DM and this needs sorting sharpish.
 

G Ron

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,996
7,526
Contrary to the lyrics in the song, let’s hope Poch realises diamonds certainly aren’t forever!
 

Amo

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
15,795
31,480
We were tearing up the league with it at one point but it's not working now and I'm astonished by Poch's stubbornness both with the formation itself, the personnel used within it and the way the formation is utilised in terms of effort and pressing.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
The diamond actually worked in the first half.
We should have scored at least 3or 4.
We just don't have the personnel to use the diamond for 90 minutes.
Dier must have seriously pissed off Poch.
I personally think Foyth would be the perfect player for the defensive part of the diamond.
But we need a new right and left back.
Hopefully sess will be that left back.
Winks can't play the DM and this needs sorting sharpish.

It's not just Dier or a DM in replace of Winks, it's the face that defensively in transition we don't have cover for the full backs as the 2cm's need to get out wide, when we lost the ball they are in the middle.

Happened against Liverpool and Dortmund last season, it just doesn't make any sense.

Bayern were just switching play last night to the oppesite flank and that knackered out both Sissoko and Ndombele as they had to shuttle across to cover.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
We were tearing up the league with it at one point but it's not working now and I'm astonished by Poch's stubbornness both with the formation itself, the personnel used within it and the way the formation is utilised in terms of effort and pressing.

What point? We beat Everton 6-2 with it and that's it :D
 

Nebby

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2013
3,363
6,377
Lost count the number of times a Bayern player picked up the ball on the half way line and then didn't have another Spurs player to beat until he reached the penalty area. That shouldn't happen once in a game.
 

Graysonti

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2011
3,904
5,823
It’s just another reason why he has to go. Even Hoddle last night was saying the formation is all wrong, our CM are being asked to cover too much ground, leaving too much space and they will be shattered after 30 minutes...

And look what happened. If Hoddle can see that why on earth can’t Poch? He’s honestly lost the plot.

I said in the summer that Poch’s hardon for playing Winks as a base in the diamond will be his undoing. I’m convinced he plays this formation to shoehorn Winks into the side.

We need to play an energetic DM behind NDombele to properly screen the defence. Winks isn’t the answer. We don’t need a keep it simple 2019 Scott Parker in there.

The perfect example of what we need would be a Kante. Obviously that’s impossible but we need someone who compliments NDombele, who IS a talent to build your team around. Not Winks.

Before anyone thinks I’m slagging Winks. I’m keen to see how a tactically astute manager develops and uses Winks...but not Poch.


I noticed those Hoddle comments - and we was 1-1 and playing well.

Looks so obvious now.
 

Graysonti

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2011
3,904
5,823
That Gnabry fella scored 11 last year.

He is not some world beater - it was us and the system
 

WhiteStripe

Get out of my club you cretin!
Aug 23, 2006
14,190
4,905
The required attributes of the fullbacks and the base of the diamond for a successful implementation of this formation are not present in the squad.

We also push the fullbacks too high too early and especially in the case of Aurier, they do not track back soon enough. This often means a midfielder is dragged wide to desperately try and recover the space left which in turn leaves gaps in the middle of the park.

Interestingly I saw a Trippier interview yesterday where he mentioned he often got forward too early last season and was unable to recover the position quick enough when the attack was turned over. This is partly coaching, but predominantly personell/attitude. You cant have square pegs if you are trying to place them in "diamond" shaped holes.
 
Last edited:

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
5,861
We need to play with width. Two players wide creates overlaps, space and offers protection to full backs
 

dude573

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,589
4,813
The thing that irks me most about the diamond is that despite it visibly not working, Poch only seems to persist with it because it is his creation.

Much how Guardiola and Klopp reintroduced 433s or Conte utilised a 3 at the back, the diamond seems to be Poch's self-believed print of tactical geniuses in the modern game. It begs belief when we have had so much success in the past with a 4231 and have the players to play a 433 ourselves.
 
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