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The England Thread

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
@'O Zio

Nothing being a prick about telling facist Nazis to do one. If you think that's me being a 'prick' then fair enough.

'Fucking hell. The absolute state of this. When will it finally get through to people that that was one of the darkest chapters in human history and that there is absolutely nothing glorious about it in the slightest.'

For the record, beating the Nazis out of existence was quite a glorious moment. I don't feel I'm a 'prick' for thinking that and never will. Each to their own. My grandfathers, who both fought them, felt the same. They were actually quite proud. So is my German best mate.

Any person who throws a Nazi salute in my direction will get the same reaction. Violence? No. Happy celebration and laughing back at them? Yes.

Calling our own fans sickening pricks for standing up to them? Not me.

Again, you're completely missing the point here.
 

soup

On the straightened arrow
May 26, 2004
3,494
3,592
Again, you're completely missing the point here.

Mate, stop trying to tar me with some brush. I'm not missing the point just because I don't agree with you.

What is your point? I'm a racist? A knuckle dragger? What?

Next time I march against Tommy Robinson, face to face with Nazis spitting vitriol in my face from 30cm I'd better make some notes. What have you done to demonstrate your stance on removing 'the worst period of history' from modern society apart from calling me a prick?
 
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'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
Mate, stop trying to tar me with some brush. I'm not missing the point just because I don't agree with you.

What is your point? I'm a racist? A knuckle dragger? What?

Next time I march against Tommy Robinson, face to face with Nazis spitting vitriol in my face from 30cm I'd better make some notes. What have you done to demonstrate your stance on removing 'the worst period of history' from modern society apart from calling me a prick?

First of all I don't think I ever called you a prick

But anyway, my point isn't that you shouldn't criticise Nazis. Like I say, it's an incredibly dark period of history with immense suffering on all sides. We should commemorate and remember those who lived and died through it and, like I say, hopefully learn one or two lessons along the way. And obviously, if people start up with all that again like these idiots in Bulgaria then they should obviously be called out for it and dealt with accordingly.

But there's a massive difference between standing against Nazis and parading around patting yourself on the back singing "10 German Bombers" etc. and bragging about who "won" the war. Like I say, nobody "won" anything and to be honest, even if you do see it that way, to me dragging all that "us vs them" mentality back up and celebrating it is not all that far removed from dragging up the other side of the coin like the Bulgarians did the other night.
 

soup

On the straightened arrow
May 26, 2004
3,494
3,592
First of all I don't think I ever called you a prick

But anyway, my point isn't that you shouldn't criticise Nazis. Like I say, it's an incredibly dark period of history with immense suffering on all sides. We should commemorate and remember those who lived and died through it and, like I say, hopefully learn one or two lessons along the way. And obviously, if people start up with all that again like these idiots in Bulgaria then they should obviously be called out for it and dealt with accordingly.

But there's a massive difference between standing against Nazis and parading around patting yourself on the back singing "10 German Bombers" etc. and bragging about who "won" the war. Like I say, nobody "won" anything and to be honest, even if you do see it that way, to me dragging all that "us vs them" mentality back up and celebrating it is not all that far removed from dragging up the other side of the coin like the Bulgarians did the other night.

Fair enough. We're both singing from the same hymn sheet after all. I don't 'brag' about winning any war, but I will always stand my ground against bullies. I just love sticking two fingers up to bullies in whichever way I can without being physical. That's when they win.

Believe me, had it been the Germans, who never do this kind of thing, Dambusters would not be appropriate, VERY much agreed, and I do get that point. (y)
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
Lol the amount of stick Noble is getting in the replies! ??

And very true re: the West Ham gassing Jews - he’s just a complete joke who keeps on giving.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,187
And this is why I said England should have walked off the pitch. Would have been a watershed moment in the fight against racism and lead to far harsher consequences. Playing the game gave UEFA a way out, to be honest.

 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,901
And this is why I said England should have walked off the pitch. Would have been a watershed moment in the fight against racism and lead to far harsher consequences. Playing the game gave UEFA a way out, to be honest.

How would us breaking the rules result in Bulgaria getting a harsher punishment?

Essentially every country will have racism issues, the question is how the authorities deal with it.

Bulgaria have fired their manager and I believe arrested several of the fans. UEFA have made them play two games behind closed doors and given their usual demisory fine.

I believe in this case the punishment is just and if their fans act in such a way again I would hope for a harsher punishment.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,187
How would us breaking the rules result in Bulgaria getting a harsher punishment?

Essentially every country will have racism issues, the question is how the authorities deal with it.

Bulgaria have fired their manager and I believe arrested several of the fans. UEFA have made them play two games behind closed doors and given their usual demisory fine.

I believe in this case the punishment is just and if their fans act in such a way again I would hope for a harsher punishment.


3 times Bulgaria has been punished over this same stuff. 3!!!!!!
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
How would us breaking the rules result in Bulgaria getting a harsher punishment?

Essentially every country will have racism issues, the question is how the authorities deal with it.

Bulgaria have fired their manager and I believe arrested several of the fans. UEFA have made them play two games behind closed doors and given their usual demisory fine.

I believe in this case the punishment is just and if their fans act in such a way again I would hope for a harsher punishment.

I reckon with England walking off the pitch UEFA would have had to do something as it hurts their pockets and their integrity.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,901
From UEFA's Disciplinary Regulations:

The following disciplinary measures apply in the event of recidivism:

a.a second offence is punished with one match played behind closed doors and a fine of € 50,000;

b.any subsequent offence is punished with more than one match behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.



So Uefa have handed out the punishment within their regulations.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,901
Who sets these rules and regulations?
People within the organisation I would have thought.

They have an Executive Committee with elected members. They have meeting s every two months so there are ways to discuss rules and regulations without breaking the rules ourselves.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
People within the organisation I would have thought.

They have an Executive Committee with elected members. They have meeting s every two months so there are ways to discuss rules and regulations without breaking the rules ourselves.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that UEFA answer to FIFA as they are a subordinate so really what you're doing is not only sending a message to them, you're sending a message to FIFA and the footballing world.

We can talk about regulations as much as possible but what do these paltry fines achieve? Their 'punishment's' clearly aren't working mate.

Walking off the pitch raises awareness, as soon as that happens it goes viral, worldwide media get a hold of it and that inevitably puts pressure on the organisations, that's the point.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,901
I guess what I'm trying to say is that UEFA answer to FIFA as they are a subordinate so really what you're doing is not only sending a message to them, you're sending a message to FIFA and the footballing world.

We can talk about regulations as much as possible but what do these paltry fines achieve? Their 'punishment's' clearly aren't working mate.

Walking off the pitch raises awareness, as soon as that happens it goes viral, worldwide media get a hold of it and that inevitably puts pressure on the organisations, that's the point.
I get the point I just disagree with it.

The fine is nothing but playing matches behind closed doors is something. Bulgaria have also fired their manager.

I have nothing against protest but in this instance I don't believe a walk out was the right action.

What I am most interested in is if the ref took the right action. Was there an announcement on the PA system to warn the fans to stop the abuse? if there was why didn't he go to step 3 and stop the game for a period of time?

If the ref didn't go through the procedure then our action should have been to get the ref to follow the steps. Dodging this and simply walking off isn't the way to go about things.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
I get the point I just disagree with it.

The fine is nothing but playing matches behind closed doors is something. Bulgaria have also fired their manager.

I have nothing against protest but in this instance I don't believe a walk out was the right action.

What I am most interested in is if the ref took the right action. Was there an announcement on the PA system to warn the fans to stop the abuse? if there was why didn't he go to step 3 and stop the game for a period of time?

If the ref didn't go through the procedure then our action should have been to get the ref to follow the steps. Dodging this and simply walking off isn't the way to go about things.

Well you have to say it was because this is the 3rd time Bulgaria have been done for racism and we're just now on the stage of minor fines and 2 games behind closed doors, brilliant.

Let's face it if UEFA were serious about racism they would have escalated this ages ago, unfortunately they are apart of the problem, how many times do we need to have this conversation about UEFA's punishment's, they do nothing. It should never get to a stage where players are thinking of walking off the pitch in order to highlight the abuse, I don't care what rules are in place, it's just disgraceful.

When there's riots and protests people tend to take note, not saying that should happen but there's a reason why they happen, it's because the authorities aren't doing enough.
 
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