The Front Three - Integration

[Johnny J]

This system needs the wide forwards to drive at their opponent and push them back, or go past them. Neither Son nor Kulusevski seem very capable of this, for different reasons.

I know Salah is world class, and Diaz is amazing too, but when they get the ball they go at their opponents and take them on.

So often in our first two games, Kulusevski and particularly Son got the ball, stopped, and then passed it back where it came from.

The system literally doesn't work if that's what our wide forwards do most of the time they get the ball.

I'm sure they'll improve as they get more used to the new system. But I strongly suspect Son on an extremely steep decline and that we'll need more options there who are more dangerous.

As for Richarlison I've been very disappointed in his performance the first two games. He's a decent player in the right system and position, but if I had to put money on it, I don't think he'll be the answer for us at CF.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Wouldn't make sense for Son and Kulu to swap sides if we don't want them cutting inside?

Nice point although at Celtic Jota would often cut in and score from the left with his right foot, it’s not always just about crossing in ange’s system.

He like a variety of attacking options.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This system needs the wide forwards to drive at their opponent and push them back, or go past them. Neither Son nor Kulusevski seem very capable of this, for different reasons.

I know Salah is world class, and Diaz is amazing too, but when they get the ball they go at their opponents and take them on.

So often in our first two games, Kulusevski and particularly Son got the ball, stopped, and then passed it back where it came from.

The system literally doesn't work if that's what our wide forwards do most of the time they get the ball.

I'm sure they'll improve as they get more used to the new system. But I strongly suspect Son on an extremely steep decline and that we'll need more options there who are more dangerous.

As for Richarlison I've been very disappointed in his performance the first two games. He's a decent player in the right system and position, but if I had to put money on it, I don't think he'll be the answer for us at CF.

So true mate, such great points as always.

I watched the Lpool highlights and was thinking Salah & L.Diaz would both be absolutely perfect for Ange's style of football.

 

[fridgemagnet]

I've noticed a lot of the time pretty much since the arrivals of Deki, Richy & Perisic that when you put Sonny in there with any 1 or 2 of those players they all ended up wanting the same space so nobody got a clean shot off very often, Kane was the outlier to that as he's world class but also he mastered the art of knowing when to run and when to stand still and thus let the opposition defenders to open up the space he needed.

Last season anytime Son tried to cut infield and get a shot off he'd run into Deki/Richy, then Deki would cut in and run into Richy or Sonny, I don't think it's a coincidence Son's best season came when Deki didn't cut in so often (IIRC his first season he went down the outside far more often)

I have wondered for years why seeing as the both Son and Deki like to cut in they don't occasional switch during the game for brief spells, otherwise perhaps we need to look at Deki more as central option and sign a right footed RW but then Sonny's not a LW either so that's two players who really be central?

Do we get Defoe out of retirement? whistle

 

[brasil_spur]

I think it needs a bit more time, but it does need to start clicking more in the next few games. Brentford and Utd are perhaps not the best fixtures to get some free flowing cohesion going.

Individually though:

Son - needs to re-learn how to beat a man and be more instinctive when we gets passed the ball. He's looking better when in and around the box, but from midfield up the pitch he's been off lately. I also think his pressing can leave a lot to be desired at times, but that might just be a fitness thing right now.

Deki - needs to re-learn how to be lethal in the box again, his cut back onto the left and shoot is both very predictable and also not hitting the target well.

Richarlison - I thought that he did everything right apart from getting into decent shooting / goalscoring positions, which is pretty much the most important thing for a CF. Next few games will tell whether he can cut it or not, if not I can see Ange moving him to the LW slot as he offers a lot off the ball and in build up play when not isolated in the box.

So in short I think if during the next few games they don't properly click then we really need to sort things out. For me the two pressing incomings in the squad right now are a LW with serious pace and a CF/ST to compete or takeover from Richarlison.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Wondering if people think Deki looks a little 'heavy' this season?

Upper body seems quite large. Not necessarily fat as such, may just be more muscular. May be nothing, and I know f all about this, but I think he'd better being a little lighter personally

Will also be interesting to see if Soloman and Gil have a role to play in this

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

So in Ange's system, his width comes from the 2 wing forwards. He wants them to hug the touchline at certain phases of play to provide width and one of their primary roles is to receive the ball isolated against their fullback and take them on. By being dangerous out wide they not only create chances from low crosses/cutbacks on the outside and shots/passing combos on the inside but their mere presence and danger on the ball creates panic in the opposition which opens up space in the central areas for the striker and 2 x 8s.

This role requires a few traits:

1. Explosive acceleration - To drive past their fullback on either the outside towards the byline, or inside to provide space for a shot or passing combination.
2. High level of agility - Turning quickly on the ball to try and trick the defender and create spaces to exploit.
3. Good dribbler with quick feet - To complement the first 2 points, they need to be able to beat players with volume both in space but also tighter areas and need to be able to beat defenders from a standing start too.
4. Two way dribbling - The ability to go both inside and outside against their opponent with unpredictability.

After this, you obviously want the player to have good decision making, awareness, an eye for goal etc but the 4 traits above are absolutely key on the ball for the wide players and that's where we have a problem.

Son has never been an amazing dribbler from a standing start. He can beat players but it's usually in space with momentum, not from a standing start out wide. He also isn't quite as explosive with his acceleration anymore and he isn't a high volume dribbler.

Deki has some good dribbling ability but he isn't high volume and the biggest issue for him is a lack of explosive acceleration and agility.

So neither of them fit the profile for the system that well. Now we can probably get away with playing 1 of them out wide at a time (ideally we want 2 profiles fits) but by playing both out wide at the same time we leave ourselves with no natural Ange winger, which harms the effectiveness of the front 3 and subsequently the entire team and our chance creation.

The best comparison to look at in terms of the type of players we want are Martinelli and Saka for scum. They perform a similar role to Ange's profile of wide player but the two of them are far more dynamic, explosive and better at dribbling than ours, hence why scum look and feel more dangerous in those areas. Sane and Sterling when they were at City are another example.

In the short term we can try to get around it by playing around with passing combos etc in that wide area but the only long term fix is to have 2 explosive wide players on each side. Deki could provide a creator type rotation option (think Bernardo Silva), who could play from the right or potentially as an 8.

I would look to move Son to striker and bring in a high quality, explosive wide player who can preferably play both flanks. That would give us the new player and Solomon as profile fits plus Deki and Perisic who can both offer something too. Then long term we'd want another explosive wide player so that we have at least 3 of them for the 4 positions.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

So in Ange's system, his width comes from the 2 wing forwards. He wants them to hug the touchline at certain phases of play to provide width and one of their primary roles is to receive the ball isolated against their fullback and take them on. By being dangerous out wide they not only create chances from low crosses/cutbacks on the outside and shots/passing combos on the inside but their mere presence and danger on the ball creates panic in the opposition which opens up space in the central areas for the striker and 2 x 8s.

This role requires a few traits:

1. Explosive acceleration - To drive past their fullback on either the outside towards the byline, or inside to provide space for a shot or passing combination.
2. High level of agility - Turning quickly on the ball to try and trick the defender and create spaces to exploit.
3. Good dribbler with quick feet - To complement the first 2 points, they need to be able to beat players with volume both in space but also tighter areas and need to be able to beat defenders from a standing start too.
4. Two way dribbling - The ability to go both inside and outside against their opponent with unpredictability.

After this, you obviously want the player to have good decision making, awareness, an eye for goal etc but the 4 traits above are absolutely key on the ball for the wide players and that's where we have a problem.

Son has never been an amazing dribbler from a standing start. He can beat players but it's usually in space with momentum, not from a standing start out wide. He also isn't quite as explosive with his acceleration anymore and he isn't a high volume dribbler.

Deki has some good dribbling ability but he isn't high volume and the biggest issue for him is a lack of explosive acceleration and agility.

So neither of them fit the profile for the system that well. Now we can probably get away with playing 1 of them out wide at a time (ideally we want 2 profiles fits) but by playing both out wide at the same time we leave ourselves with no natural Ange winger, which harms the effectiveness of the front 3 and subsequently the entire team and our chance creation.

The best comparison to look at in terms of the type of players we want are Martinelli and Saka for scum. They perform a similar role to Ange's profile of wide player but the two of them are far more dynamic, explosive and better at dribbling than ours, hence why scum look and feel more dangerous in those areas. Sane and Sterling when they were at City are another example.

In the short term we can try to get around it by playing around with passing combos etc in that wide area but the only long term fix is to have 2 explosive wide players on each side. Deki could provide a creator type rotation option (think Bernardo Silva), who could play from the right or potentially as an 8.

I would look to move Son to striker and bring in a high quality, explosive wide player who can preferably play both flanks. That would give us the new player and Solomon as profile fits plus Deki and Perisic who can both offer something too. Then long term we'd want another explosive wide player so that we have at least 3 of them for the 4 positions.

What do you mean by "volume" in the way you use it?

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

What do you mean by "volume" in the way you use it?

Lots of take ons, so a player who wants to get the ball and run at defenders a lot of the time.

 

[onthetwo]

Kane & Son were the best goals/assist partnership in EPL history IIRC....so not only do the front 3 need time to gel, we're probably comparing them to the best partnership the league has ever seen...after 2 frickin games!!

 

[SUIYHA]

So in Ange's system, his width comes from the 2 wing forwards. He wants them to hug the touchline at certain phases of play to provide width and one of their primary roles is to receive the ball isolated against their fullback and take them on. By being dangerous out wide they not only create chances from low crosses/cutbacks on the outside and shots/passing combos on the inside but their mere presence and danger on the ball creates panic in the opposition which opens up space in the central areas for the striker and 2 x 8s.

This role requires a few traits:

1. Explosive acceleration - To drive past their fullback on either the outside towards the byline, or inside to provide space for a shot or passing combination.
2. High level of agility - Turning quickly on the ball to try and trick the defender and create spaces to exploit.
3. Good dribbler with quick feet - To complement the first 2 points, they need to be able to beat players with volume both in space but also tighter areas and need to be able to beat defenders from a standing start too.
4. Two way dribbling - The ability to go both inside and outside against their opponent with unpredictability.

After this, you obviously want the player to have good decision making, awareness, an eye for goal etc but the 4 traits above are absolutely key on the ball for the wide players and that's where we have a problem.

Son has never been an amazing dribbler from a standing start. He can beat players but it's usually in space with momentum, not from a standing start out wide. He also isn't quite as explosive with his acceleration anymore and he isn't a high volume dribbler.

Deki has some good dribbling ability but he isn't high volume and the biggest issue for him is a lack of explosive acceleration and agility.

So neither of them fit the profile for the system that well. Now we can probably get away with playing 1 of them out wide at a time (ideally we want 2 profiles fits) but by playing both out wide at the same time we leave ourselves with no natural Ange winger, which harms the effectiveness of the front 3 and subsequently the entire team and our chance creation.

The best comparison to look at in terms of the type of players we want are Martinelli and Saka for scum. They perform a similar role to Ange's profile of wide player but the two of them are far more dynamic, explosive and better at dribbling than ours, hence why scum look and feel more dangerous in those areas. Sane and Sterling when they were at City are another example.

In the short term we can try to get around it by playing around with passing combos etc in that wide area but the only long term fix is to have 2 explosive wide players on each side. Deki could provide a creator type rotation option (think Bernardo Silva), who could play from the right or potentially as an 8.

I would look to move Son to striker and bring in a high quality, explosive wide player who can preferably play both flanks. That would give us the new player and Solomon as profile fits plus Deki and Perisic who can both offer something too. Then long term we'd want another explosive wide player so that we have at least 3 of them for the 4 positions.

Good analysis. I've always loved a fast, tricky winger at Spurs, the kind of "bums off seats" player that delights the crowd and terrifies the opposition - Ginola, Bale, Lennon....would love us to sign another player like that.

Wonder if Ange will make a move for his old favourite Jota with the news today that he's going to leave Saudi already...