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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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Guernman

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2013
1,507
7,838
I am going to be controversial and say I don't care who plays on Saturday.

Poch's entire success has been built around a complete squad ethos. There is an underlying philosophy and whomever is called upon is expected to step up. Obviously things have gone pear shaped of late, but he has been pretty vocal about the coming issues long before they actually occurred. But when things have been right with Poch's approach they have never been better.

It's just not his way to follow up on a success like yesterday by sticking to those 11 players week in week out, and in doing so sideline the likes of Eriksen, Alderwiereld, Aurier etc. And I agree with him. Yes, it might help us win on Saturday, but in terms of making this season a success he needs to find a way to get the best out of all these key players who, particularly with Eriksen, is in a really bad place right now.

Eriksen looks like he couldn't give a shit, but I think there is much more to it than that. Really he looks completely shot of any confidence. For him personally this must have been an incredibly hard few months. He went from the highs of the Champions League semi-final, on top of the world, the most consistent playmaker in the world's best league for a number of years, then he announced his intention to look for a new challenge to try and fulfill his spanish dream fully expecting suitors to line up and it has been an astonishingly brutal fall for him since then. He is not throwing his toys around, he has just been through a very shattering period in his life and is likely in a very low place.

The problems we have faced this season are rooted in a fracturing of squad harmony, the key element to Poch's success. Yes, these fractures have either been caused or exacerbated by these players with contract issues or seemingly wanting out. But Poch's fix will never be and would never be to sideline these players, to choose the same starting 11 every week and essentially ostracise half the squad.

Of course for us fans, we have been longing for a performance like last night's for months, finally we get some relief and it is only natural that we clammer for more of the same. Finally we have our Spurs back, so for god sake why regress, just stick with this team! But this completely goes against everything Poch stands for. His solution is regaining the squad harmony, picking the same 11 week in week out does the opposite. Just think Harry Redknapp.

Pochettino has not lost this group of players, they took him out for dinner when the pressure was building. He has not lost his man management skills - just look at how brilliantly he handled the situation with Son. To get from the red card at Everton, to seeing Poch walk Son out to the away fans last night, after the others had left the pitch, that is quite something in four days. It is and will always be about the collective with this manager. Give your all for the collective, show intent and commitment in training and you are part of the team, if not the starting 11.

And since we know that this is Poch's approach, we could look at yesterday's performance as a sign that this whole squad is starting to find it's mojo again, not that Poch has found the right starting 11. There will be changes on Saturday. Verts and Alderweireld and Aurier and Winks will all still keep featuring. Gradually they will find form and over the course of this season we will badly need them at times. The likes of Lo Ceslo, Ndombele and Sessegnon will continue to be pushed, challenged and benched. Poch will continue to play Eriksen, continue to support him and try and bring him out of this slump. He knows that yesterday was just a blip if he can't get this whole squad united behind his vision again... personally I think he will, and in my opinion a big part of that is because he won't be playing the same starting 11 on saturday.
 

TheAmerican

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2012
6,909
18,760
Can we just give him credit for tonight instead of moaning about what might happen at the weekend already
If we bring in someone to replace eriksen in the winter (Fernandes?), then my optimism towards Poch would increase. Maybe he truly didn’t believe Lo celso was ready yet. The lineup for our next EPL game will be telling for me, as there’s no reason to start Eriksen over Lo Celso now.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,900
24,808
I am going to be controversial and say I don't care who plays on Saturday.

Poch's entire success has been built around a complete squad ethos. There is an underlying philosophy and whomever is called upon is expected to step up. Obviously things have gone pear shaped of late, but he has been pretty vocal about the coming issues long before they actually occurred. But when things have been right with Poch's approach they have never been better.

It's just not his way to follow up on a success like yesterday by sticking to those 11 players week in week out, and in doing so sideline the likes of Eriksen, Alderwiereld, Aurier etc. And I agree with him. Yes, it might help us win on Saturday, but in terms of making this season a success he needs to find a way to get the best out of all these key players who, particularly with Eriksen, is in a really bad place right now.

Eriksen looks like he couldn't give a shit, but I think there is much more to it than that. Really he looks completely shot of any confidence. For him personally this must have been an incredibly hard few months. He went from the highs of the Champions League semi-final, on top of the world, the most consistent playmaker in the world's best league for a number of years, then he announced his intention to look for a new challenge to try and fulfill his spanish dream fully expecting suitors to line up and it has been an astonishingly brutal fall for him since then. He is not throwing his toys around, he has just been through a very shattering period in his life and is likely in a very low place.

The problems we have faced this season are rooted in a fracturing of squad harmony, the key element to Poch's success. Yes, these fractures have either been caused or exacerbated by these players with contract issues or seemingly wanting out. But Poch's fix will never be and would never be to sideline these players, to choose the same starting 11 every week and essentially ostracise half the squad.

Of course for us fans, we have been longing for a performance like last night's for months, finally we get some relief and it is only natural that we clammer for more of the same. Finally we have our Spurs back, so for god sake why regress, just stick with this team! But this completely goes against everything Poch stands for. His solution is regaining the squad harmony, picking the same 11 week in week out does the opposite. Just think Harry Redknapp.

Pochettino has not lost this group of players, they took him out for dinner when the pressure was building. He has not lost his man management skills - just look at how brilliantly he handled the situation with Son. To get from the red card at Everton, to seeing Poch walk Son out to the away fans last night, after the others had left the pitch, that is quite something in four days. It is and will always be about the collective with this manager. Give your all for the collective, show intent and commitment in training and you are part of the team, if not the starting 11.

And since we know that this is Poch's approach, we could look at yesterday's performance as a sign that this whole squad is starting to find it's mojo again, not that Poch has found the right starting 11. There will be changes on Saturday. Verts and Alderweireld and Aurier and Winks will all still keep featuring. Gradually they will find form and over the course of this season we will badly need them at times. The likes of Lo Ceslo, Ndombele and Sessegnon will continue to be pushed, challenged and benched. Poch will continue to play Eriksen, continue to support him and try and bring him out of this slump. He knows that yesterday was just a blip if he can't get this whole squad united behind his vision again... personally I think he will, and in my opinion a big part of that is because he won't be playing the same starting 11 on saturday.
Excellent post!
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,388
I am going to be controversial and say I don't care who plays on Saturday.

Poch's entire success has been built around a complete squad ethos. There is an underlying philosophy and whomever is called upon is expected to step up. Obviously things have gone pear shaped of late, but he has been pretty vocal about the coming issues long before they actually occurred. But when things have been right with Poch's approach they have never been better.

It's just not his way to follow up on a success like yesterday by sticking to those 11 players week in week out, and in doing so sideline the likes of Eriksen, Alderwiereld, Aurier etc. And I agree with him. Yes, it might help us win on Saturday, but in terms of making this season a success he needs to find a way to get the best out of all these key players who, particularly with Eriksen, is in a really bad place right now.

Eriksen looks like he couldn't give a shit, but I think there is much more to it than that. Really he looks completely shot of any confidence. For him personally this must have been an incredibly hard few months. He went from the highs of the Champions League semi-final, on top of the world, the most consistent playmaker in the world's best league for a number of years, then he announced his intention to look for a new challenge to try and fulfill his spanish dream fully expecting suitors to line up and it has been an astonishingly brutal fall for him since then. He is not throwing his toys around, he has just been through a very shattering period in his life and is likely in a very low place.

The problems we have faced this season are rooted in a fracturing of squad harmony, the key element to Poch's success. Yes, these fractures have either been caused or exacerbated by these players with contract issues or seemingly wanting out. But Poch's fix will never be and would never be to sideline these players, to choose the same starting 11 every week and essentially ostracise half the squad.

Of course for us fans, we have been longing for a performance like last night's for months, finally we get some relief and it is only natural that we clammer for more of the same. Finally we have our Spurs back, so for god sake why regress, just stick with this team! But this completely goes against everything Poch stands for. His solution is regaining the squad harmony, picking the same 11 week in week out does the opposite. Just think Harry Redknapp.

Pochettino has not lost this group of players, they took him out for dinner when the pressure was building. He has not lost his man management skills - just look at how brilliantly he handled the situation with Son. To get from the red card at Everton, to seeing Poch walk Son out to the away fans last night, after the others had left the pitch, that is quite something in four days. It is and will always be about the collective with this manager. Give your all for the collective, show intent and commitment in training and you are part of the team, if not the starting 11.

And since we know that this is Poch's approach, we could look at yesterday's performance as a sign that this whole squad is starting to find it's mojo again, not that Poch has found the right starting 11. There will be changes on Saturday. Verts and Alderweireld and Aurier and Winks will all still keep featuring. Gradually they will find form and over the course of this season we will badly need them at times. The likes of Lo Ceslo, Ndombele and Sessegnon will continue to be pushed, challenged and benched. Poch will continue to play Eriksen, continue to support him and try and bring him out of this slump. He knows that yesterday was just a blip if he can't get this whole squad united behind his vision again... personally I think he will, and in my opinion a big part of that is because he won't be playing the same starting 11 on saturday.

I appreciate your view, but IMO we desperately need a result in the EPL to stop the rot. That will build squad confidence and belief a damn site quicker than picking the same players who have let us down time and time again. As much as anything, those players need to be taken out of the firing line and the new guys need the opportunity to get used to each other.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
I am going to be controversial and say I don't care who plays on Saturday.

Poch's entire success has been built around a complete squad ethos. There is an underlying philosophy and whomever is called upon is expected to step up. Obviously things have gone pear shaped of late, but he has been pretty vocal about the coming issues long before they actually occurred. But when things have been right with Poch's approach they have never been better.

It's just not his way to follow up on a success like yesterday by sticking to those 11 players week in week out, and in doing so sideline the likes of Eriksen, Alderwiereld, Aurier etc. And I agree with him. Yes, it might help us win on Saturday, but in terms of making this season a success he needs to find a way to get the best out of all these key players who, particularly with Eriksen, is in a really bad place right now.

Eriksen looks like he couldn't give a shit, but I think there is much more to it than that. Really he looks completely shot of any confidence. For him personally this must have been an incredibly hard few months. He went from the highs of the Champions League semi-final, on top of the world, the most consistent playmaker in the world's best league for a number of years, then he announced his intention to look for a new challenge to try and fulfill his spanish dream fully expecting suitors to line up and it has been an astonishingly brutal fall for him since then. He is not throwing his toys around, he has just been through a very shattering period in his life and is likely in a very low place.

The problems we have faced this season are rooted in a fracturing of squad harmony, the key element to Poch's success. Yes, these fractures have either been caused or exacerbated by these players with contract issues or seemingly wanting out. But Poch's fix will never be and would never be to sideline these players, to choose the same starting 11 every week and essentially ostracise half the squad.

Of course for us fans, we have been longing for a performance like last night's for months, finally we get some relief and it is only natural that we clammer for more of the same. Finally we have our Spurs back, so for god sake why regress, just stick with this team! But this completely goes against everything Poch stands for. His solution is regaining the squad harmony, picking the same 11 week in week out does the opposite. Just think Harry Redknapp.

Pochettino has not lost this group of players, they took him out for dinner when the pressure was building. He has not lost his man management skills - just look at how brilliantly he handled the situation with Son. To get from the red card at Everton, to seeing Poch walk Son out to the away fans last night, after the others had left the pitch, that is quite something in four days. It is and will always be about the collective with this manager. Give your all for the collective, show intent and commitment in training and you are part of the team, if not the starting 11.

And since we know that this is Poch's approach, we could look at yesterday's performance as a sign that this whole squad is starting to find it's mojo again, not that Poch has found the right starting 11. There will be changes on Saturday. Verts and Alderweireld and Aurier and Winks will all still keep featuring. Gradually they will find form and over the course of this season we will badly need them at times. The likes of Lo Ceslo, Ndombele and Sessegnon will continue to be pushed, challenged and benched. Poch will continue to play Eriksen, continue to support him and try and bring him out of this slump. He knows that yesterday was just a blip if he can't get this whole squad united behind his vision again... personally I think he will, and in my opinion a big part of that is because he won't be playing the same starting 11 on saturday.

Great post, but I think a bit of stability in the team and formation for a few games while we regain confidence might be what we need right now. Once you've got that confidence back you can then rotate as needed.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
18,720
53,767
We need to stick to the same side as much as possible, and even if certain players can't play 90, then sub them off after 60/70 minutes. For once I'd like to see a first half similar to Palace earlier in the season (the only really decent display in the league) and blitz them early. Makes for a much easier and comfortable game from there on in.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
I appreciate your view, but IMO we desperately need a result in the EPL to stop the rot. That will build squad confidence and belief a damn site quicker than picking the same players who have let us down time and time again. As much as anything, those players need to be taken out of the firing line and the new guys need the opportunity to get used to each other.
This. Sadly, we’re talking about Poch so the chances of that are minimal
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Some people are really angry we won it seems, just means that they might have to change their mind because it's ruined their agenda...can't have the team winning and doing well, of course it's not as important as being right on the internet is it :sneaky:
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
My point still stands. One fact being incorrect does not invalidate the point. So, he did turn down Real Madrid. Big deal. That still doesn't compel the club to give him more time than a manager who didn't turn down Real.

I know your view is very much that Poch has to be backed due to some measure of loyalty shown.

No. That's not how it works. Whether that should be the way it works is a different debate, but in the current football environment we can't afford to be rose-tinted about our approach to any manager. The club comes first. If the club is suffering under a manager that manager must be removed from his job, regardless of whether he's given us fifty years service or fifty minutes. That he has turned down a job or not is not germane and is not a reason to stand by Pochettino. There are reasons for standing by him, but loyalty is not one of them.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
Some people are really angry we won it seems, just means that they might have to change their mind because it's ruined their agenda...can't have the team winning and doing well, of course it's not as important as being right on the internet is it :sneaky:
If you really think we might have turned the corner, just wait until the weekend. The home fixture against RSB was the same thing. Dropped wantaways and changed a terrible cm partnership. Won 5-0. What happened after? Same shit as the entire season. No evidence to suggest Poch will finally stick. Be floored if Toby, Serge, Eriksen and Winks don’t immediately return
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
If you really think we might have turned the corner, just wait until the weekend. The home fixture against RSB was the same thing. Dropped wantaways, played those who want to be here, won 5-0. What happened after? Same shit as the entire season. No evidence to suggest Poch will finally stick.

? K...Did you mean to quote me or?
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
? K...Did you mean to quote me or?
You said yesterday ruined agendas and meant people might have to change their mind. So yeah i did mean to quote you. No evidence to suggest yesterday was any turning point. It’ll be the same old tired shit on Saturday and we’ll all be clammoring for a change.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
You said yesterday ruined agendas and meant people might have to change their mind. So yeah i did mean to quote you. No evidence to suggest yesterday was any turning point. It’ll be the same old tired shit on Saturday and we’ll all be clammoring for a change.

Again, irrelevant to my point.
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
15,855
32,964
I am going to be controversial and say I don't care who plays on Saturday.

Poch's entire success has been built around a complete squad ethos. There is an underlying philosophy and whomever is called upon is expected to step up. Obviously things have gone pear shaped of late, but he has been pretty vocal about the coming issues long before they actually occurred. But when things have been right with Poch's approach they have never been better.

It's just not his way to follow up on a success like yesterday by sticking to those 11 players week in week out, and in doing so sideline the likes of Eriksen, Alderwiereld, Aurier etc. And I agree with him. Yes, it might help us win on Saturday, but in terms of making this season a success he needs to find a way to get the best out of all these key players who, particularly with Eriksen, is in a really bad place right now.

Eriksen looks like he couldn't give a shit, but I think there is much more to it than that. Really he looks completely shot of any confidence. For him personally this must have been an incredibly hard few months. He went from the highs of the Champions League semi-final, on top of the world, the most consistent playmaker in the world's best league for a number of years, then he announced his intention to look for a new challenge to try and fulfill his spanish dream fully expecting suitors to line up and it has been an astonishingly brutal fall for him since then. He is not throwing his toys around, he has just been through a very shattering period in his life and is likely in a very low place.

The problems we have faced this season are rooted in a fracturing of squad harmony, the key element to Poch's success. Yes, these fractures have either been caused or exacerbated by these players with contract issues or seemingly wanting out. But Poch's fix will never be and would never be to sideline these players, to choose the same starting 11 every week and essentially ostracise half the squad.

Of course for us fans, we have been longing for a performance like last night's for months, finally we get some relief and it is only natural that we clammer for more of the same. Finally we have our Spurs back, so for god sake why regress, just stick with this team! But this completely goes against everything Poch stands for. His solution is regaining the squad harmony, picking the same 11 week in week out does the opposite. Just think Harry Redknapp.

Pochettino has not lost this group of players, they took him out for dinner when the pressure was building. He has not lost his man management skills - just look at how brilliantly he handled the situation with Son. To get from the red card at Everton, to seeing Poch walk Son out to the away fans last night, after the others had left the pitch, that is quite something in four days. It is and will always be about the collective with this manager. Give your all for the collective, show intent and commitment in training and you are part of the team, if not the starting 11.

And since we know that this is Poch's approach, we could look at yesterday's performance as a sign that this whole squad is starting to find it's mojo again, not that Poch has found the right starting 11. There will be changes on Saturday. Verts and Alderweireld and Aurier and Winks will all still keep featuring. Gradually they will find form and over the course of this season we will badly need them at times. The likes of Lo Ceslo, Ndombele and Sessegnon will continue to be pushed, challenged and benched. Poch will continue to play Eriksen, continue to support him and try and bring him out of this slump. He knows that yesterday was just a blip if he can't get this whole squad united behind his vision again... personally I think he will, and in my opinion a big part of that is because he won't be playing the same starting 11 on saturday.

You should post more.
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
Hopefully Poch doesn’t bring back Winks back in. Last night was really positive but only because he finally played the midfield that we’ve been requesting all season.

What’s the betting he brings Winks and Eriksen back in...sigh

Last night we saw a midfield that was on the same wavelength and can pass forward. GLC and Ndombele are first team picks every single game and for me Sissoko gets the nod over Winks. We need to sign a top DM and then that three in midfield would look superb.

Winks squad player like he always should have been. You can see when Ndombele and GLC played last night what proper quality in midfield looks like. Winks doesn’t have it.
Winks pre-injury was on the verge of ripping up trees. He's playing through the pain which is being managed. I wouldn't go underestmating him just yet - had a great game against Barca last year.

He's still young and can add value. I think we just need to sort out the problems whatever they may be and see some of our underrated players flourish.
 

ILS

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
3,803
6,913
Some people are really angry we won it seems, just means that they might have to change their mind because it's ruined their agenda...can't have the team winning and doing well, of course it's not as important as being right on the internet is it :sneaky:
This is where the misunderstanding is occurring.

If Poch or the club came out at the start of the season and said that this is going to be start of a new project which will take a couple of seasons to bed in due to the situation we find ourselves in and therefore he will only play players who want to be at Spurs for the entirety of the project, then I would say majority of Spurs fans who are currently upset would back the manager and give him time.

The frustration is when Eriksen starts not matter how bad he is and Toby was being chosen over Sanchez and Rose over Davies etc and Wanyama is being chosen over Skipp for a place on the bench.

This can be done. Lampard has pushed a couple of his senior players to one side to make way for the youngsters.

Last night was the first time where I actually enjoyed watching us play with tempo and a bit more of a direction. I just hope it continues and then myself and I imagine others will happily jump back on bandwagon.
 

Cavehillspur

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
13,967
18,271
I really feel (hope!) that last night was this seasons turning point with all 3 summer signings finally playing and making an impact, Foyth getting 90 mins under his belt, would also like to see Dier get a run at CB alongside Sanchez.

I think we'll beat Sheffield United and go on an unbeaten run in the league, we've a decent looking run of fixtures, no better chance to build confidence and some consistency. COYS!
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,498
My point still stands. One fact being incorrect does not invalidate the point. So, he did turn down Real Madrid. Big deal. That still doesn't compel the club to give him more time than a manager who didn't turn down Real.

I know your view is very much that Poch has to be backed due to some measure of loyalty shown.

No. That's not how it works. Whether that should be the way it works is a different debate, but in the current football environment we can't afford to be rose-tinted about our approach to any manager. The club comes first. If the club is suffering under a manager that manager must be removed from his job, regardless of whether he's given us fifty years service or fifty minutes. That he has turned down a job or not is not germane and is not a reason to stand by Pochettino. There are reasons for standing by him, but loyalty is not one of them.

My view is nothing to do with loyalty. My post about loyalty was speculating on why Levy hasn’t sacked him yet. And I believe that is to do with loyalty.

I however believe we should back him as we know the heights he can take the team. There’s mitigating circumstances for team performance that can be worked trough with time. Bringing in a different manager doesn't mean we are going to achieve our objectives any quicker than we might do keeping Poch. I feel he has earnt the right to see through the rebuild. Of course it’s a results based business and if we continue to move towards the relegation zone then of course he needs to go. I believe he’ll turn it around though.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
This is where the misunderstanding is occurring.

If Poch or the club came out at the start of the season and said that this is going to be start of a new project which will take a couple of seasons to bed in due to the situation we find ourselves in and therefore he will only play players who want to be at Spurs for the entirety of the project, then I would say majority of Spurs fans who are currently upset would back the manager and give him time.

The frustration is when Eriksen starts not matter how bad he is and Toby was being chosen over Sanchez and Rose over Davies etc and Wanyama is being chosen over Skipp for a place on the bench.

This can be done. Lampard has pushed a couple of his senior players to one side to make way for the youngsters.

Last night was the first time where I actually enjoyed watching us play with tempo and a bit more of a direction. I just hope it continues and then myself and I imagine others will happily jump back on bandwagon.


“Now it’s about creating another chapter and to have the clear idea of how we are going to build that new project. We need to rebuild. It’s going to be painful.”

I'm not sure he could have been more clear than that, he's also been slated for saying that because people think that it put players noses out of joint so he can't win either way with this fanbase on that. He could never say that he will only play players depending on a set of circumstance because what happens if we get a situation we can't get rid of a player who wants to leave or we want (Which has happened). What if we get injuries and we don't have the luxury of the players who we want for the future being available and are only left with the players who aren't part of the future (which has happened)

Also I don't agree with the majority of fans would back the manager because I've consistently had arguments with people on here complaining they're sick of transition to which I asked what do they expect.

So I don't think it's a misunderstanding at all. Because Poch said what you wanted to hear and you are still unhappy. He also spent all summer letting people know he wasn't happy himself with the dealings of the outgoings by constantly reminding people he doesn't deal with the transfers and wasn't getting the rebuild he wanted.

I can appreciate the frustration of players like Eriksen playing because I find it frustrating myself but let's not pretend you needed to hear a statement to be able to support him with what's happening this season because he did exactly that.
 
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