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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Pretty sure we're doing better than at this stage of last season. We typically struggle around this time, before picking up in December and January.

Before the Leicester game we were in the exact same position as last season. Think that loss last night has perhaps put us in a slightly worse position but we shouldn’t go shitting the bed just yet.
 

Colonel Dax

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2008
2,946
12,289
Pretty sure we're doing better than at this stage of last season. We typically struggle around this time, before picking up in December and January.

I posted the following in last night's match thread, so apologies if you've read it...

This season we are dealing with a different set of circumstances going into the winter period:

1. Our storming run last December and January coincided with the return of injured players. This time around we are without arguably our best defender in Toby and our best defensive midfielder (Wanyama). Without that defensive wall we look brittle at the back.

2. Last season we had Fortress White Hart Lane. This season picking up maximum points at "home" against inferior opposition is proving quite challenging. It will be difficult to build momentum if we keep dropping points.

3. Our rivals are doing much better than last season.

Not to mention the loss of form and fatigue for players like Eriksen and Dele.

For those reasons I think it's going to be difficult to replicate the form of last December/January.
 

Sophos151

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2016
792
2,559
Before the Leicester game we were in the exact same position as last season. Think that loss last night has perhaps put us in a slightly worse position but we shouldn’t go shitting the bed just yet.

The problem is, the other teams around us are doing better. We're as far from second now, as we were from first then.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
The problem is, the other teams around us are doing better. We're as far from second now, as we were from first then.

Some are some aren’t. I think Liverpool we’re doing better last season and Arsenal ate pretty much the same. Not sure the chavs are doing that much better either tbh. Even city had a really good start last season but they’ve obviously kicked on more this year.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
Oh man it's nice to see some sense being spoken on this forum for once. Twitter has been awash with knee jerk overreacting and it's insufferable.

Clearly our form is not great in the league at the moment but the overriding feeling cannot be one of worry or panic. Before last night's result we were matching last season for points from games played. Granted we smashed Leicester last season but that was very unlikely to happen again last night. Moreover though, we did actually have enough clear cut chances to win that game, it just didn't happen for us. Don't get me wrong, everyone is accountable for the 1st half performance and getting us into the 2-0 hole that we were in but there's no doubt we should have at least drawn with the chances we had.

The treatment towards Llorente that I've seen has been appalling. Fans saying "get him out of my club" but as Trix pointed out, his lack of form is arguably more down to how Poch has deployed him than anything else. He's clearly lacking confidence and that matters when you consider how good he's been his entire career. Poch needs to review how he's used him thus far and think about changing it for the rest of the season.

I also really feel like we've missed Wanyama far more than has been appreciated up until now. I honestly believe that some of our draws and losses would have been wins with him in the team. Not sure how far away he is but getting him, Lamela and Toby back will be crucial to recovering our form. Beyond that we need to try and recruit in January, whether that be only Barkley and maybe one other (e.g. Richarlison type) then we need to make that happen. I appreciate Levy and his shrewd ways but its time to be a bit more forthright with our intentions and get deals done, if they can't be done quickly then move on to the next target.

Personally I'm not interested in City or Utd and challenging for the title. If we are in that mix come May then it will be utterly remarkable considering that we are at Wembley. Our focus needs to be game to game. If we can consolidate a top 4 finish and go a bit further in the CL/domestic cups then it will be a very good season.

Next summer will be the time to make a splash in the transfer window. A marquee signing to boost the squad, fanbase and christen our new stadium could be huge for everyone involved in the club moving forward.
 

stevel

Active Member
Aug 28, 2003
58
134
Before the Leicester game we were in the exact same position as last season. Think that loss last night has perhaps put us in a slightly worse position but we shouldn’t go shitting the bed just yet.
Last season we lost four games total. This season we've already lost four and it's not even December.
 

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,732
10,120
To be honest, there is only one thing that I disagree with Poch (and why Levy likes him) is his conservative attitudes towards the transfer markets. Poch seems to be a manager who is satisfied with Levy's continuing failing to buy Plan A players. We all know what we really need for almost two years, and we cannot even get any wingers with pace (I don't include GNK sorry) and Barkley. Although there were some obvious exceptions, I think he doesn't really like buying plan B players in the market. He should request for the players that really fits this squad. But he doesn't even bother to urge Levy IMO.
 

ebzrascal

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2009
2,635
4,670
There has been a little bit of arrogance from Poch with the book and even his approach to some matches this season. I also think some players have been indulged a little too much and not sure he has pushed for players to challenge Eriksen, Alli and Kane that are badly needed.

Need to go back to basics get ourselves tough to beat and be more ruthless in attack.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
To be honest, there is only one thing that I disagree with Poch (and why Levy likes him) is his conservative attitudes towards the transfer markets. Poch seems to be a manager who is satisfied with Levy's continuing failing to buy Plan A players. We all know what we really need for almost two years, and we cannot even get any wingers with pace (I don't include GNK sorry) and Barkley. Although there were some obvious exceptions, I think he doesn't really like buying plan B players in the market. He should request for the players that really fits this squad. But he doesn't even bother to urge Levy IMO.
But why do you think poch joined spurs because he was willing to buy into levys philosophy and or plan, he knew how levy operatd buy cheap sell high etc.
We don't know whether poch has asked for more high profile names or whether he is happy getting the players he gets, what we do know is that the squad is thin on quality in depth in certain areas.
It's hard to imagine us buying in January which is not normally levys MO so we soldier on until the summer and live in hope rather than expectation.
 

StevePil

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2006
2,963
3,735
Those calling for Poch are ridiculous!

Levy is the problem here, yes he is delivering a great stadium but this is his make or break as he has not invested in the squad enough and this summer transfer fiasco was the last straw for me

How long will Poch stay would be the question? Its clear we are on downward spiral now but we need Poch to pull us out of it, Watford away and stoke at home next 2 teams that will bully us - cant wait
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,845
34,029
We need to go back to our pressing game.

I'd rather finish second or third because we have burnt out towards the end of the season, than to fail to be in the mix at all.

I know Poch has said we can't keep it up for a season and if hurts is late on but the problem wasn't the press itself, it was the lack of rotation options in certain positions.

We need to start playing a more aggressive brand of football again before it's too late.
Funny thing is, everyone was saying the exact same thing this time last season, about our pressing, about Alli and Eriksen looking burnt out etc and a couple of weeks later we started to get into beast mode and then looked unstoppable at times.

I think it's to do with the fitness periodisation, in that this time of the season, the training is taking it out of players, but they will benefit for the rest of the season. IMO, a couple more technical & intelligent players will allow us to retain the ball and create more chances to get us through these dips with more positive results.
 

thinktank

Hmmm...
Sep 28, 2004
45,893
68,893
To me, Poch devaluing the domestic cups was the stupidest thing he's ever done.

We ain't won shit, yet he put a seed in the player's heads that they are worthy of only the shiniest jewels.

Terrible psychology.

He thought he was elevating them, aspirationally, but what he did was just give them an inflated sense of self and an entitlement mindset.

I think it really affected us.

Now he's got to work super hard to get that spark and grind back into them before the malaise takes proper hold and we get deeper into a hole.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
To me, Poch devaluing the domestic cups was the stupidest thing he's ever done.

We ain't won shit, yet he put a seed in the player's heads that they are worthy of only the shiniest jewels.

Terrible psychology.

He thought he was elevating them, aspirationally, but what he did was just give them an inflated sense of self and an entitlement mindset.

I think it really affected us.

Now he's got to work super hard to get that spark and grind back into them before the malaise takes proper hold and we get deeper into a hole.


I disagree, I think he's pretty much got his priorities right domestically, there's no way we finish second last year, or be in title races two years running, and play CL/Europe and compete for the domestic trinkets, we do not have the squad to do it, ManU, Chelsea, City and to a lesser extent, Arsenal do.

What he definitely hasn't done well is manage the rotation of key offensive players. And I know this is a sore topic to some but he's had young players here, ready to play squad roles that he's under used, which could have given this squad fresh legs and minds, and helped keep some important first teamers fresher.


I posted this in the ratings thread but it may as well go here too:


I think there are a multitude of problems, but a simple one has been a general lack of rotation of key creative players. Ignoring the fact that Alli's all round game has been pretty poor most of the season, he's also a 21yo kid. Eriksen seems to have played every single league and CL game too, and Kane is pretty much the same, and often left on the pitch when games are well won.

Players like Son, Edwards, Oduwa, Nkoudou and KWP could have been used better to rotate and rest others, for bits of games and occasionally whole games.

I don't think our defence has suffered much at all from the loss of Alderweireld, Dier is a very adequate CB, a decent communicator and Alderweireld hasn't been at his very best anyway.

But the midfield is a major problem that Poch seemed to take his eye off, and while he did it went stale. We have no stability, solidity or continuity there. Roles are il-defined, we've had Winks playing as the central hub, when the positioning and defensive side of his game is weakest, we've had Sissoko, Alli and Eriksen all parachuted back there with mixed results, two of them are fucking clumsy, none of them are much good under a stern press.

And this means we also aren't as effective without the ball either. Alli doesn't press well, Sissoko just charges into people, Dembele's zimmer needs oiling. Dier can't press because he's too cumbersome and gets turned too easily. Eriksen's decent at pressing but not exactly the bravest.

I don't think we've played the same midfield structure or personnel two games running all season, we've rarely played it for the same game. Last two games we've switched from 3331 to 4231 to 226.

I remember quite a few on here giving me shit for being annoyed that he ignored Winks for a massive chunk of last season, and also refused to get Onomah into games when we were 3/4 up with 30 minutes to play, and then also failed to play him in midfield in every single post and pre season friendly. And Lesniak was jettisoned despite showing briefly that he's a very capable little busy ****.

I know Onomah has learning to do, but FFS, he is definitely a better midfielder than Sissoko. And I don't blame Sissoko, I blame Pochettino. He's wasted/spurned the opportunity to develop assets, or at least utilise them for squad purposes and now he's hoisted somewhat on his own, Sissoko sized petard.

We got away with it against RM and Liverpool because the midfield didn't really have to play, just sit and spring occasionally. But we are being asked different questions now and it's getting exposed. The midfield is the engine that drives the machine, and ours is a bit Heath Robinson right now.
 

thinktank

Hmmm...
Sep 28, 2004
45,893
68,893
I disagree, I think he's pretty much got his priorities right domestically, there's no way we finish second last year, or be in title races two years running, and play CL/Europe and compete for the domestic trinkets, we do not have the squad to do it, ManU, Chelsea, City and to a lesser extent, Arsenal do.
.

Not reading all that, but, you can prioritise - quietly.

Smartly.

Sometimes he tries to be too flash and it backfires.
 

ljinko888

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2016
2,080
5,376
I disagree, I think he's pretty much got his priorities right domestically, there's no way we finish second last year, or be in title races two years running, and play CL/Europe and compete for the domestic trinkets, we do not have the squad to do it, ManU, Chelsea, City and to a lesser extent, Arsenal do.

What he definitely hasn't done well is manage the rotation of key offensive players. And I know this is a sore topic to some but he's had young players here, ready to play squad roles that he's under used, which could have given this squad fresh legs and minds, and helped keep some important first teamers fresher.


I posted this in the ratings thread but it may as well go here too:


I think there are a multitude of problems, but a simple one has been a general lack of rotation of key creative players. Ignoring the fact that Alli's all round game has been pretty poor most of the season, he's also a 21yo kid. Eriksen seems to have played every single league and CL game too, and Kane is pretty much the same, and often left on the pitch when games are well won.

Players like Son, Edwards, Oduwa, Nkoudou and KWP could have been used better to rotate and rest others, for bits of games and occasionally whole games.

I don't think our defence has suffered much at all from the loss of Alderweireld, Dier is a very adequate CB, a decent communicator and Alderweireld hasn't been at his very best anyway.

But the midfield is a major problem that Poch seemed to take his eye off, and while he did it went stale. We have no stability, solidity or continuity there. Roles are il-defined, we've had Winks playing as the central hub, when the positioning and defensive side of his game is weakest, we've had Sissoko, Alli and Eriksen all parachuted back there with mixed results, two of them are fucking clumsy, none of them are much good under a stern press.

And this means we also aren't as effective without the ball either. Alli doesn't press well, Sissoko just charges into people, Dembele's zimmer needs oiling. Dier can't press because he's too cumbersome and gets turned too easily. Eriksen's decent at pressing but not exactly the bravest.

I don't think we've played the same midfield structure or personnel two games running all season, we've rarely played it for the same game. Last two games we've switched from 3331 to 4231 to 226.

I remember quite a few on here giving me shit for being annoyed that he ignored Winks for a massive chunk of last season, and also refused to get Onomah into games when we were 3/4 up with 30 minutes to play, and then also failed to play him in midfield in every single post and pre season friendly. And Lesniak was jettisoned despite showing briefly that he's a very capable little busy ****.

I know Onomah has learning to do, but FFS, he is definitely a better midfielder than Sissoko. And I don't blame Sissoko, I blame Pochettino. He's wasted/spurned the opportunity to develop assets, or at least utilise them for squad purposes and now he's hoisted somewhat on his own, Sissoko sized petard.


We got away with it against RM and Liverpool because the midfield didn't really have to play, just sit and spring occasionally. But we are being asked different questions now and it's getting exposed. The midfield is the engine that drives the machine, and ours is a bit Heath Robinson right now.

I like reading your analysis and while I think you go over-board on certain players I can't disagree with the bolded part. I have voiced my frustration at Poch's use of the squad and been shut down because we won the game. I'm delighted when we play well and win games but there is a bigger picture to be had. If Poch had given Onomah a fair crack when there was nothing to lose then we would be better situated now knowing whether he is up to the task. And with our midfield short in numbers and quality you see why some of us raised the point.

The idea that the solutions are in the transfer window is flawed. We don't shop in the top category and even a signing like Llorente who in theory was a sound transfer [experienced, proven in top leagues, played at the highest level] has gone badly. You make your investment but there's no guarantee it will pay off whereas a few of our academy boys given that chance may have something to offer without putting a dent in our coffers.

Poch is one of the better ones for integrating youth and one of if not the best at developing young players. But I feel like he can be more flexible about the way he brings players through. I don't think they all have to follow a strict rulebook. Throw the gauntlet down a bit more and see which players rise to the challenge rather than keep them coddled in a training environment which is no alternative to actual game experience.
 

SpursDave88

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,193
5,831
I disagree, I think he's pretty much got his priorities right domestically, there's no way we finish second last year, or be in title races two years running, and play CL/Europe and compete for the domestic trinkets, we do not have the squad to do it, ManU, Chelsea, City and to a lesser extent, Arsenal do.

What he definitely hasn't done well is manage the rotation of key offensive players. And I know this is a sore topic to some but he's had young players here, ready to play squad roles that he's under used, which could have given this squad fresh legs and minds, and helped keep some important first teamers fresher.


I posted this in the ratings thread but it may as well go here too:


I think there are a multitude of problems, but a simple one has been a general lack of rotation of key creative players. Ignoring the fact that Alli's all round game has been pretty poor most of the season, he's also a 21yo kid. Eriksen seems to have played every single league and CL game too, and Kane is pretty much the same, and often left on the pitch when games are well won.

Players like Son, Edwards, Oduwa, Nkoudou and KWP could have been used better to rotate and rest others, for bits of games and occasionally whole games.

I don't think our defence has suffered much at all from the loss of Alderweireld, Dier is a very adequate CB, a decent communicator and Alderweireld hasn't been at his very best anyway.

But the midfield is a major problem that Poch seemed to take his eye off, and while he did it went stale. We have no stability, solidity or continuity there. Roles are il-defined, we've had Winks playing as the central hub, when the positioning and defensive side of his game is weakest, we've had Sissoko, Alli and Eriksen all parachuted back there with mixed results, two of them are fucking clumsy, none of them are much good under a stern press.

And this means we also aren't as effective without the ball either. Alli doesn't press well, Sissoko just charges into people, Dembele's zimmer needs oiling. Dier can't press because he's too cumbersome and gets turned too easily. Eriksen's decent at pressing but not exactly the bravest.

I don't think we've played the same midfield structure or personnel two games running all season, we've rarely played it for the same game. Last two games we've switched from 3331 to 4231 to 226.

I remember quite a few on here giving me shit for being annoyed that he ignored Winks for a massive chunk of last season, and also refused to get Onomah into games when we were 3/4 up with 30 minutes to play, and then also failed to play him in midfield in every single post and pre season friendly. And Lesniak was jettisoned despite showing briefly that he's a very capable little busy ****.

I know Onomah has learning to do, but FFS, he is definitely a better midfielder than Sissoko. And I don't blame Sissoko, I blame Pochettino. He's wasted/spurned the opportunity to develop assets, or at least utilise them for squad purposes and now he's hoisted somewhat on his own, Sissoko sized petard.

We got away with it against RM and Liverpool because the midfield didn't really have to play, just sit and spring occasionally. But we are being asked different questions now and it's getting exposed. The midfield is the engine that drives the machine, and ours is a bit Heath Robinson right now.

We haven't won well at all in the league this season...well we have done so very rarely. Liverpool and Huddersfield are the only games that I can recall, so I don't think there has really been an instance where we could have rested players.

We have no replacements for Wanyama or Aldeweireld, and it really shows.

Dier in reality is one of the most over-rated players in the country, he is very poor in most matches...that is not to say we can improve on him though.

I admire your faith in Onomah, but I actually think he is nowhere near good enough for the Premier league and has been more or less anonymous every time he has featured for Spurs, which was very regularly the season before last. Obviously would love to eat my words on this one as he is a Spurs boy, but from what I have seen I don't really get why anyone rates him.

Essentially we had a very thin squad anyway and now we have injuries too to make that tell. A number of our senior players are not focused on actually winning matches, rather they are focussed on a move to Barcelona or Madrid or United and hence we rarely win, in what is a competitive premier league.

I would be amazed if we start next season with a stronger squad than the one we have now, which is even more worrying since we aren't strong enough as is.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
We haven't won well at all in the league this season...well we have done so very rarely. Liverpool and Huddersfield are the only games that I can recall, so I don't think there has really been an instance where we could have rested players.

We have no replacements for Wanyama or Aldeweireld, and it really shows.

Dier in reality is one of the most over-rated players in the country, he is very poor in most matches...that is not to say we can improve on him though.

I admire your faith in Onomah, but I actually think he is nowhere near good enough for the Premier league and has been more or less anonymous every time he has featured for Spurs, which was very regularly the season before last. Obviously would love to eat my words on this one as he is a Spurs boy, but from what I have seen I don't really get why anyone rates him.

Essentially we had a very thin squad anyway and now we have injuries too to make that tell. A number of our senior players are not focused on actually winning matches, rather they are focussed on a move to Barcelona or Madrid or United and hence we rarely win, in what is a competitive premier league.

I would be amazed if we start next season with a stronger squad than the one we have now, which is even more worrying since we aren't strong enough as is.


I don't really agree with your logic. If you admit we haven't been great anyway, what do we have to lose by rotating and using some of our squad/younger players.

Ignoring all the other options, such as academy players etc. How about swapping Alli for Son for a game or two, then doing the same with Alli and Eriksen, then even a game of Son for Kane up front. Nkoudou ?

Anyone can see Onomah has a skill se and ability range that is super to Sissoko's for a midfield, especially a midfield three which is how we are using Sissoko. His technique under pressure its better, his reading of the game is better, his passing is better, he's more intelligent, with a decent game picture. But to be honest, I'd take 17yo Skipp over Sissoko, he's so lacking.

Dier is massively over rated by anyone that rates him as a CM. But he is a perfectly good CB, very good for his age in fact. I have no problem with him there, but I've been getting shit for saying he shouldn't be in midfield for a couple of years.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,845
34,029
I disagree, I think he's pretty much got his priorities right domestically, there's no way we finish second last year, or be in title races two years running, and play CL/Europe and compete for the domestic trinkets, we do not have the squad to do it, ManU, Chelsea, City and to a lesser extent, Arsenal do.

What he definitely hasn't done well is manage the rotation of key offensive players. And I know this is a sore topic to some but he's had young players here, ready to play squad roles that he's under used, which could have given this squad fresh legs and minds, and helped keep some important first teamers fresher.


I posted this in the ratings thread but it may as well go here too:


I think there are a multitude of problems, but a simple one has been a general lack of rotation of key creative players. Ignoring the fact that Alli's all round game has been pretty poor most of the season, he's also a 21yo kid. Eriksen seems to have played every single league and CL game too, and Kane is pretty much the same, and often left on the pitch when games are well won.

Players like Son, Edwards, Oduwa, Nkoudou and KWP could have been used better to rotate and rest others, for bits of games and occasionally whole games.

I don't think our defence has suffered much at all from the loss of Alderweireld, Dier is a very adequate CB, a decent communicator and Alderweireld hasn't been at his very best anyway.

But the midfield is a major problem that Poch seemed to take his eye off, and while he did it went stale. We have no stability, solidity or continuity there. Roles are il-defined, we've had Winks playing as the central hub, when the positioning and defensive side of his game is weakest, we've had Sissoko, Alli and Eriksen all parachuted back there with mixed results, two of them are fucking clumsy, none of them are much good under a stern press.

And this means we also aren't as effective without the ball either. Alli doesn't press well, Sissoko just charges into people, Dembele's zimmer needs oiling. Dier can't press because he's too cumbersome and gets turned too easily. Eriksen's decent at pressing but not exactly the bravest.

I don't think we've played the same midfield structure or personnel two games running all season, we've rarely played it for the same game. Last two games we've switched from 3331 to 4231 to 226.

I remember quite a few on here giving me shit for being annoyed that he ignored Winks for a massive chunk of last season, and also refused to get Onomah into games when we were 3/4 up with 30 minutes to play, and then also failed to play him in midfield in every single post and pre season friendly. And Lesniak was jettisoned despite showing briefly that he's a very capable little busy ****.

I know Onomah has learning to do, but FFS, he is definitely a better midfielder than Sissoko. And I don't blame Sissoko, I blame Pochettino. He's wasted/spurned the opportunity to develop assets, or at least utilise them for squad purposes and now he's hoisted somewhat on his own, Sissoko sized petard.

We got away with it against RM and Liverpool because the midfield didn't really have to play, just sit and spring occasionally. But we are being asked different questions now and it's getting exposed. The midfield is the engine that drives the machine, and ours is a bit Heath Robinson right now.
CM is definitely the priority right now and, as much as it pains me to say, we need to see Dembele as a tactical bench option rather than a first teamer now. IMO, whilst Dier is fine as a DM 2nd choice, as soon as Wanyama is out for a length of time, it stretches us and add to that a first team CB being injured and we are screwed.

Between now and January, IMO, we need to either put Foyth in at CB or switch to a back 4 and, either way, put Dier along side Winks on CM or TOB (or even Skipp) if Winks ins't fit.

In January, IMO, we need to recall Onomah and bring in a CM that can defend well enough and move the ball on quickly, as well as have good close control.

I also hope Poch gives Eriksen and Alli a rest and plays Son and Lamela instead.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
To me, Poch devaluing the domestic cups was the stupidest thing he's ever done.

We ain't won shit, yet he put a seed in the player's heads that they are worthy of only the shiniest jewels.

Terrible psychology.

He thought he was elevating them, aspirationally, but what he did was just give them an inflated sense of self and an entitlement mindset.

I think it really affected us.

Now he's got to work super hard to get that spark and grind back into them before the malaise takes proper hold and we get deeper into a hole.

Agree 100%. Bang on.

Hubris.
 
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