The VAR Thread

Danny1

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And how do you define a clear offside?
And what happens when someone decides goal A in one match is a clear offside and goal B in another match isnt?
Oh yeah, shit storm ensues.
I mean Verts once had a goal disallowed for offside when several yards onside in his own half!
The law of offside needs changing in order for VAR to be applied sensibly imo.
By definition there has to be a line drawn for offside. You cant introduce a grey area where its down to opinion (which is exactly what they have done with the 'clear and obvious' bollox).
Whats the point of having VAR if thats what you're going to do?
Then there's the application. Why the fk it takes so long is a mystery. Surely technology can tell you straight away? Why do we even need 4 dicks sat around a table discussing it? Should be 10secs max.
I was pro VAR and I still am but the application, fk no.
As soon as I heard the plan to have 4 people (not even a fkin odd number so you get a majority) sat remotely reviewing it, ref cant look at screen and that bloody clear and obvious shit I knew it was being set up to fail.
I'm a conspiracy nut and believe its been fked intentionally I really do. Unless they really are thick as shit. Tough call lol.
Fair point, a clear offside could be when there is no element of doubt, be that half a body or intact all the body to be offside to change the on field decision.
 

allatsea

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Fair point, a clear offside could be when there is no element of doubt, be that half a body or intact all the body to be offside to change the on field decision.
Shouldn’t the decision rest on whether the ‘offside’ Gives an obvious advantage to attacking side ? Kane’s offside goal from a few days ago is a case in point. It was just a brilliant goal and him being a inch or two offside made no difference.
 

John48

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Strange how a lot of people didn't want it because there would be nothing to talk about.

In a year or two I hope we've all got used to it & accept that gives a fairer game.

I do love how Kane goal or Son against Leicester that never were are quite often considered OK to be chalked off, but any decision in our favour is consider an injustice to our opponents.
 

slartibartfast

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What you can take from the 30cm per frame thing is that its a damn sight closer to being correct now than it ever was before. And Refs and Linesmen never had a chance of getting these tight calls correct and were just guessing.
As shit as VAR is, even in its current awful format, I do believe it gets more right than wrong and there are a lot less incorrect game changing decisions being made than before its introduction.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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What you can take from the 30cm per frame thing is that its a damn sight closer to being correct now than it ever was before. And Refs and Linesmen never had a chance of getting these tight calls correct and were just guessing.
As shit as VAR is, even in its current awful format, I do believe it gets more right than wrong and there are a lot less incorrect game changing decisions being made than before its introduction.
Not for me. I think if the lino had given any of the offsides we've seen this weekend they would have been crucified. Got so much more wrong than right.
 

philll

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Even if we could just hear the conversations that are had that would be something. During our game yesterday the commentator said that they could listen in and there was an utterly confusing conversation going on about Pukki coming back from an offside position or something. And today, everybody was looking at Lallana for the hand ball but apparently it was Van Dijk that Wolves were aggrieved about and there was no indication whatsoever that they looked at that when they were making the decision.

It sounds like a lot of arse-covering takes place when they fuck a decision up. Like Son's red against Everton - it wasn't a red, if it had gone to VAR they would see it wasn't a red but the Premier League twitter account rushed a statement out practically before the match had finished saying he was sent off because he endangered an opponent.

At the end of the day, refs aren't half as accountable as they should be. Their decisions could literally decide whether a team is relegated or qualifies for Europe or something else which has massive (good or bad) financial implications. Being able to listen to the conversation would be a good first step.
 

midoshairband

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perhaps there needs to be some sort of ‘umpires call’ on offsides. more than a certain distance required to change the on field decision.

must be hard for a linesman though - you’re trained to stick your flag up if you think its offside. now they have to let play go on.

either way, i don’t think VAR is useful for offsides. i’d rather have some good old human error and be able to blame crap reffing.
 

Wadec

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meanwhile they are unable to review the challenge leading to their free kick and goal. I get that they aren't going to review everything in the game but a free kick 25-30 yards out is a goal scoring chance. The event leading to it can turn a game. Not sure what you'd give if the decision was reversed, free kick the other way I suppose? in this instance it leads to a goal and results in a player being booked/suspended so if the player dives (and I think he does..) it's an important moment.
This is my biggest frustration, they are drilling down offside decisions to suck fine margins (even though the technology is not 100% accurate) yet going with the cop out of a clear and obvious error.

With the offside I feel that over the season all teams will benefit in some cases and others not, so it is consistent. However I do wish they would review it and if it is watertight and cant be decided within 20 seconds stick with the on field decision.
 

JCRD

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That wasn't that difficult, was it!

I really like that approach, the ref only has one set of eyes so the help is needed.

Also having refs mic-ed up should bring a better level of decorum onfield, one would hope.
Even if we could just hear the conversations that are had that would be something. During our game yesterday the commentator said that they could listen in and there was an utterly confusing conversation going on about Pukki coming back from an offside position or something. And today, everybody was looking at Lallana for the hand ball but apparently it was Van Dijk that Wolves were aggrieved about and there was no indication whatsoever that they looked at that when they were making the decision.

It sounds like a lot of arse-covering takes place when they fuck a decision up. Like Son's red against Everton - it wasn't a red, if it had gone to VAR they would see it wasn't a red but the Premier League twitter account rushed a statement out practically before the match had finished saying he was sent off because he endangered an opponent.

At the end of the day, refs aren't half as accountable as they should be. Their decisions could literally decide whether a team is relegated or qualifies for Europe or something else which has massive (good or bad) financial implications. Being able to listen to the conversation would be a good first step.
The video I posted, i think was just a trial but not sure why they cannot roll it out like at Rugby or Cricket. Just ridiculous.

I agree that referees should be held accountable and my God if everyone can be just a tiny fucking bit transparent I guarantee you most of us fans would have greater understanding of the rationale behind decisions. Yeah this approach may not work so much with offsides because i think people dont like the actual rule itself but i just think as fans we are mugged off with not just VAR but refereeing as a whole.

They get paid like pros so they should be accountable as such.

For offside my view is simple - dont use these fucking lines, and let the referee decide using the monitor in the absence of the lines. If it isnt obvious with the naked eye then you give the goal.
 

BehindEnemyLines

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I have the mother-in-law over from Wroclaw at the moment and watched the Liverpool match with the sound off.........first, I swear Liverpools goal was chalked off for handball........looked back later and was so angry until I saw Wolves score an equaliser.........turned back at the end only to see that, presumably, VAR chalked that one off??????

Fucking ridiculous now!
 

jolsnogross

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The Sheffield United one where the ref played a key role for City's goal was a joke. VAR might not be directly to blame, but the ref should've blown up. And VAR is so unevenly applied it sets up the expectation that that goal would be reviewed and chalked off because of the ref's interference. And the rest of these haphazard millimeter offside calls are just opinions. Put a sensor on players shirts for offside calls, like goaline technology, and do away with VAR.
 

taidgh

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I'm not sure you can go with the on field call if the linesmen are to keep their flags down in tight calls.
Best comment in the thread. Linos are now trained to keep the flag down on close decisions so that VAR can review them. They only flag when the immediate attacking move has broken down.

If we go with the onfield decision every time, they'd all be goals.
 

taidgh

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The Sheffield United one where the ref played a key role for City's goal was a joke. VAR might not be directly to blame, but the ref should've blown up. And VAR is so unevenly applied it sets up the expectation that that goal would be reviewed and chalked off because of the ref's interference. And the rest of these haphazard millimeter offside calls are just opinions. Put a sensor on players shirts for offside calls, like goaline technology, and do away with VAR.
The ref couldn't have just blown it up. It's not in the laws of the game. Before this year, even when the ball actually touched the referee, the referee couldn't stop play. The ref was considered part of the field, and so, even if the ball went off the ref straight into the goal, the goal stood. Not saying the refs positioning was great this time, but nothing the ref or VAR could do here.

Personally, I think VAR shouldn't review offside. Should be treated as fouls are: referee decisions. If a few offside decisions are missed, we'd all just get on with it, just like we do with perceived fouls. Not saying we'd always be happy with all decisions, but that's football ffs. Add to that the fact that we don't have the technology to see the exact point where the player first made contact with the ball to pass it, so the decision on the offside itself is flawed from the first.

In any case, offside should be judged on the position of the feet, none of this armpit nonsense. That would make it so much clearer for referees, for VAR and every other person involved on the game to understand.
 

LeParisien

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Norwich and Wolves offsides cannot be called because on the frame before they were almost certainly onside. There is a 20/30cl margin of error because of the frame rate. Game is being mugged off by bad application.
 

jonnie83

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I'm not sure you can go with the on field call if the linesmen are to keep their flags down in tight calls.
perhaps they could do similar to caught behind in cricket, the on field officials will indicate if they think on/offside before the var looks at it
 

ardiles

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Maybe VAR should not get involved with offside decisions. Let the onfield officials decide on offside incidents. Bring back the fun to the game.
 

allatsea

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The joy and heartbreak of watching football is largely about goals being scored/conceded and /or chances being missed. That joy is being sucked out of the game by VAR.
 

jolsnogross

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The ref couldn't have just blown it up. It's not in the laws of the game. Before this year, even when the ball actually touched the referee, the referee couldn't stop play. The ref was considered part of the field, and so, even if the ball went off the ref straight into the goal, the goal stood. Not saying the refs positioning was great this time, but nothing the ref or VAR could do here.
This is the rule according to the bbc:

Dropball - Drop balls will not be dropped between opponents, but dropped to the team that had the last touch before it hit the referee. On many occasions, this rule will be used when a ball accidentally hits the referee, but only if a team gets an advantage from the ref's touch.
 
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